404 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

jjm1, on 06 April 2017 - 08:09 AM, said:

People are tired of stomps. It feels like hours of your play time completely wasted after you have had a long streak of them and often a few lurm boat heavies or assaults not sharing armor is a huge factor in brutal losses.

Improving the match maker to factor in variables such as LRM count instead of just blindly factoring tonnage and "tiers" should go a long way in improving matches.

Yeah I got really tired the last few days.

Leading pushes in my LRM boat, one match getting 6 scouting awards in my LRM boat, five KMDD three of them solo, in my LRM boat etc etc.

While all these KDK-3 gauss ERPPC builds were hiding at the back Ninjaing my kills.

I mastered my Night Gyr D lurmer in three days at one point I was sitting at 76 on the leaderboard based on match score only three games hadn't been the LURM boat. I'm now slightly over 200

The prejudice against lurmboats is just bullsh*t, there are achievers and non achievers with all builds.

[KingCobra]

I have to agree the LRM hate is nasty me and a buddy dropped last night in a match
he took a A1 Catapult and some A-hole cored his back out cussing LRM NERD on coms.

So I turned around and killed the jerk then he was cussing on coms all battle.

P.S the funny thing was my buddy had 4 srm6 and no lrms.

Edited by KingCobra, 06 April 2017 - 08:41 AM.

[Pika]

So aside from the topic of this thread making me audibly groan, then laugh at what I thought would be a troll, I feel the best way to answer this is with a question:

Why are you taking LRMs to begin with? That is not me asking that in a mocking way, I'm simply asking your rationle in selecting that weapon. Let's take the Mad Dog for example - at first glance it loos like a great little LRM slinger and sure it can do that job just fine, especially in PUG queue where you know your enemy are going to fight like they've had slightly too much vodka, but in group queue? Why not take SRMS\Streaks with small lasers\MGs and double your average damage over 10 games, get more kills and have a greater influence on zone control than a LRMer?

Quicker damage, more damage, more influence, ability to place shots faster, easier to follow up with supplementary weapons to crit-seek and a much more commanding presence on the battlefield.

You can understand the communities groaning when you see something like a Kodiak with LRMs on it, or a King Crab with them too. They have a reputation for attracting a certain kind of player, and sometimes it's deserved. Yet that said, even I get its a bit tongue in cheek. But I still have serious trouble justifying taking a LRM over anything else unless I just have an empty missile rack or something - and even then I'd rather put an SRM in there.

There are perhaps 3-4 'Mechs in the whole game that make decent LRM platforms - and even then they probably do better with SRMs\Streaks on them but I concede some 'Mechs just work better with LRMs. Not many though. Not enough to justify a claim that using an LRM makes you the victim of 'racist like hate'.

Edited by Pika, 06 April 2017 - 08:50 AM.

[AnTi90d]

I can count the people that I've played with that brought LRMs and were actually a benefit to the team.. on one hand.. with digits left over.

They can't make snap shots, they can't corner trade, they can't go into tunnels, they don't share their armor and they usually beg other players to get locks for them. Who really wants someone like that on their team?

While I won't condone anyone teamkilling another player for their loadout, I also don't condone some weak little kids running to mawmy to tattle-tale because, "sum wahn sed sumting dat huwt muh feewings." Toughen up, buttercup.

Use the in-game block function. Report team killers. Play the game.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Believe it or not, some players actually like the long-range game ...

I'm having fun brawling in my GRF-2N with 2 MLs and 4 SSRM2s, but I do get splatered across the landscape very often, and sometimes I'll jump in my HBK-4J to unwind a bit ...

Being always on the front line is stressful and tiring, "stepping back" so to speak can do wonders for your enjoyment of the evening.

[Pika]

Lorcryst NySell, on 06 April 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

Believe it or not, some players actually like the long-range game ...

I'm having fun brawling in my GRF-2N with 2 MLs and 4 SSRM2s, but I do get splatered across the landscape very often, and sometimes I'll jump in my HBK-4J to unwind a bit ...

Being always on the front line is stressful and tiring, "stepping back" so to speak can do wonders for your enjoyment of the evening.

I get and respect that, sure!

However it's like playing arty in WoT. You're having fun. It's rare anyone on this forum, even the OP, has ever been killed by LRMs and thought "No I deserved that. The LRM player was higher skilled than I and used fun and engaging gameplay to defeat me in a fight." (Let's be honest, EVERYONE at least sighs when LRMs kill them.) It's rare anyone else on your team notices your contribution as well. It's much more common for someone to cycle through 'Mechs in the spectator mode, see a LRM 45 Atlas and just feel robbed. Sure the Atlas pilot is having a blast and destressing but the rest of his team may have been in try-hard mode (especially in group queue) and feel like that guy has just robbed them of their fun.

Because of this LRMers get a lot of hate. The weapon is underpowered, can be frustrating to play against in PUG queue, can be exceptionally boring to play as and, during a loss, when the rest of your team is most likely to see it, it looks like you're just running around being usless before getting your poop pushed all the way in.

Lot's of little things make LRM hate what it is

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

After thousands of battles it grows rather tiresome to use the same weapons each time.

I can't do as well as normal with LRMs compared to a meta build that lets me actually just vaporize the person infront of me with ease, but I can still top the scoreboard on either team with them. Its mostly just trying out different playstyles that get some people to bring LRMs along, similar to people who bring lights when they could carry in a heavier mech easier.

Self imposed challenges become routine for those who don't have much challenge otherwise. These are the pilots whose LRMs are likely to hit with precision and without mercy, withering your armor whenever you decide to poke out of cover and somehow still pelting you once you get back behind cover.

Though they are the very small minority in a sea of players who just attach LRMs onto every single mech they can only to hide 1000m back to shoot that give LRMs a bad name everywhere and have only gotten worse as time has gone by.

[MechaBattler]

If you can do good with LRMs. Than do good. But if you don't, then take your lumps and get better at it. I know this is the fascist PC era where people are expected to act one way. But guess what? People can be jerks. And they're going to be in face of teammates that would rather sit in the back than endanger their own mechs.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Pika, on 06 April 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

I get and respect that, sure!

However it's like playing arty in WoT. You're having fun. It's rare anyone on this forum, even the OP, has ever been killed by LRMs and thought "No I deserved that. The LRM player was higher skilled than I and used fun and engaging gameplay to defeat me in a fight." (Let's be honest, EVERYONE at least sighs when LRMs kill them.) It's rare anyone else on your team notices your contribution as well. It's much more common for someone to cycle through 'Mechs in the spectator mode, see a LRM 45 Atlas and just feel robbed. Sure the Atlas pilot is having a blast and destressing but the rest of his team may have been in try-hard mode (especially in group queue) and feel like that guy has just robbed them of their fun.

Because of this LRMers get a lot of hate. The weapon is underpowered, can be frustrating to play against in PUG queue, can be exceptionally boring to play as and, during a loss, when the rest of your team is most likely to see it, it looks like you're just running around being usless before getting your poop pushed all the way in.

Lot's of little things make LRM hate what it is

Hmm ...

I played some WoT too, and I did try some arties ...

A bit of info first : I'm the kind of player who tries everything, more than once, and try to get good with things, more so with the things I suck at than the things I'm "naturally" good with.

In the case of arties in WoT, they have very severe flaws, usually paper-thin armor, it takes a long time for the "targeting oval" of indirect-fire mode to tighten enough to almost guarantee a shot, etc.
But when they *DO* hit, BLAAAAM.

That said, one of my best games of WoT using an arty was when I was the last player alive using a ridiculous Tier 2 russian arty and had to "carry very hard" in the endgame, killing tankhunters chasing me by using direct fire (much more difficult) and finally winning the game by ramming the last enemy scout tank because I had no ammo left ...

Now, here in MWO, things are different.

I agree that a pure LRM boat with only LRMs and no backup weapons, hiding way back and hitting mostly scenery is bad.

But I'm still a fluff-bunny, and I'll still try to get good with every weapon system (my bane at the moment are Pulse Lasers, PPCs and Gauss, I cannot hit the broad side of an Atlas at close range with these things).

Building a strategy around LRMs with back up weapons, NARC/TAG teammates and a solid "tanky" fireline works, in this game as well as in the old TT and RPG games.

It takes ... wait for it ... *TEAMWORK* in a team-based game, as well as awareness, positionning and communication.

Shocking, isn't it ?

If anything, I'd say that "laser vomit" is the real easy mode : point, click, repeat. Being able to move a mouse and twitch-click doesn't require thinking or skill, just reflexes.

Edited by Lorcryst NySell, 06 April 2017 - 09:29 AM.

[Almond Brown]

jjm1, on 06 April 2017 - 08:09 AM, said:

People are tired of stomps. It feels like hours of your play time completely wasted after you have had a long streak of them and often a few lurm boat heavies or assaults not sharing armor is a huge factor in brutal losses.

Improving the match maker to factor in variables such as LRM count instead of just blindly factoring tonnage and "tiers" should go a long way in improving matches.

Can we get "Heat Sink" count added as well because you know those of all wanna be "Alpha Dogs" who Fire on once and then sit there all Shut Down and stuff for minutes at a time after each of their "My Bad *** Alpha" (with a 35% ToHit rate to boot) and die like the useless **** they are too. Let's make sure we spread that hate around real good eh... LOL!

Edited by Almond Brown, 06 April 2017 - 09:33 AM.

[Pika]

Almond Brown, on 06 April 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Can we get "Heat Sink" count added as well because you know those of all wanna be "Alpha Dogs" who then sit there all Shut Down and stuff for 2 minutes after each Alpha (with a 40% To Hit rate to boot) and die like the useless **** they are too... Let's make we spread that hate around real good eh... LOL!

LRM hate is like, Tier 5. You start here, you quickly get frustrated at LRMs and slowly come to resent them both on your team and on the enemies. After sometime you transcend it and LRMs become nothing more than an annoyance. T4 wizzes by in a blur and you don't really hate anything but Assault 'mechs are scay. Then it's poptarting at T3, then at T2 we have Gauss\PPC spam.

Then you reach nirvana: The moment where you can ride heat like you're walking your mech over the surface of the sun and still dealing damage. And you see someone, probably with LRMs, still somehow managing to overheat and something snaps inside you. Then you regress down to T5 levels of hate all over again, the "Oh-god-get-more-heat-sinks." rager. This is how you know you're playing in T1 >.>

Edited by Pika, 06 April 2017 - 09:40 AM.

[FireStoat]

People that think LRM's are a worthwhile weapon to boat due to how well they contribute to a team should watch this video.



Skip to the 5:20 mark. The brutal truth about flight time, range, and ammo cycle time underscores the very sharp limitations LRMs perform under. I'm done with trying to explain with words, excepting one last point.

For the people defending LRM's as great weapons - get 3 friends. Now challenge 4 people on these boards that hate LRM's to a fight. Both sides get 4 heavy mechs of equal tonnage. One side must equip 2 of those heavy mechs with over 70% of their available weapon tonnage with LRM's and ammo. The other two mechs can have anything. Their enemy side of 4 heavy mechs can equip anything they want.

Now tell me how you think that fight will play out. Be honest.

[BabyCakes666]

MischiefSC, on 06 April 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

LRMs are bad, so are plenty of mechs and builds. So are tons of things people do. Calling bad out as bad is one thing, being a **** is still being a ****.

yer calling out bad/joke builds is fine but the harassing part is not

[C E Dwyer]

FireStoat, on 06 April 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

People that think LRM's are a worthwhile weapon to boat due to how well they contribute to a team should watch this video.



Skip to the 5:20 mark. The brutal truth about flight time, range, and ammo cycle time underscores the very sharp limitations LRMs perform under. I'm done with trying to explain with words, excepting one last point.

For the people defending LRM's as great weapons - get 3 friends. Now challenge 4 people on these boards that hate LRM's to a fight. Both sides get 4 heavy mechs of equal tonnage. One side must equip 2 of those heavy mechs with over 70% of their available weapon tonnage with LRM's and ammo. The other two mechs can have anything. Their enemy side of 4 heavy mechs can equip anything they want.

Now tell me how you think that fight will play out. Be honest.

Edited by Cathy, 06 April 2017 - 09:43 AM.

[BabyCakes666]

KingCobra, on 06 April 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

I have to agree the LRM hate is nasty me and a buddy dropped last night in a match
he took a A1 Catapult and some A-hole cored his back out cussing LRM NERD on coms.

So I turned around and killed the jerk then he was cussing on coms all battle.

P.S the funny thing was my buddy had 4 srm6 and no lrms.

see its **** like this thats got me all worked up abut the LRM hate movement

[Pika]

Cathy, on 06 April 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Using anything from the 228th is a bit disingenuous. That's in a group where a lot of assault 'mechs are able to cordinate. At the end of the game they had still lost 30 'Mechs and none of them were in their first-spawns. Meaning most would probably no longer be in their LRM boats. His LRM Stalker is not a viable build (That top speed is hysterical though.)

yet when we introduce gauss to the picture and direct, placable damage:



Suddenly we see a very different story.

Edited by Pika, 06 April 2017 - 09:51 AM.

[MischiefSC]

BabyCakes666, on 06 April 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

yer calling out bad/joke builds is fine but the harassing part is not

Harassing anyone for anything is bad. It's a big stompy robbits game. There is no srs bsns here.

LRMs are bad. They can still kill people, so can an LB2X/2xssrm4 Kit Fox. Bad is bad and saying "hey that's bad" isn't harassment. I wouldn't normally bother in a match but, well, if you're going to bring plzcarryme mechs some people may complain.

However TKing someone is reportable and should be. So is legging a teammate, etc. No good excuse to be a ****.

[Arctourus]

It's funny how people on both sides are cherry picking best of the best videos from excellent players as proof that their side is better. Only proves the point. To do well on either, you need to have a good pilot.

[Pika]

Arctourus, on 06 April 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

It's funny how people on both sides are cherry picking best of the best videos from excellent players as proof that their side is better. Only proves the point. To do well on either, you need to have a good pilot.

Except even these way above-average players still perform massivly worse against PUGs when using LRMs.

My argument is not that LRMs deserve hate btw. It's that LRMs are just a terrible weapon by design, implementation, damage and game play. They're just bad in every aspect. D:

I also didn't really cherry pick. I counter pointed with a same-source 'study' as it were

Edited by Pika, 06 April 2017 - 09:56 AM.

[Mole]

razenWing, on 06 April 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

Is that ONE incident or a consistent behaviour? I'm willing to bet it's the former.

I've had people call my Timberwolf an LRM boat about three times that I can remember, my Mauler an LRM boat four times, and my Kodiak an LRM boat two times. This usually happens when the rest of the team is mostly dead and I'm still standing and someone sees LRMs in my loadout through spectating and just decides to start blaming the stupid LRM boat that isn't actually a boat for the loss. Nevermind that I have a 50+ direct fire alpha strike that I'm stomping around in, I DARED to bring an LRM launcher and that cost us the game!

EDIT: Oh yeah, I do the same on my Hellbringer because I find 6 ERML and 2 LRM10s to be an effective combo. Been made fun of for putting LRMs on a Hellbringer a handfull of times too. But I'm OCD about having all my weapon hardpoints full and I found that SRMs only got me in trouble by making me try to brawl in a 'mech that shouldn't really be in a brawl. And the only other missile weapon available in the game right now is LRMs. When the Civil War update comes I am going to investigate the possibility of switching a lot of my "LRM on the side" clan 'mechs to ATMs. Maybe a couple of my "LRM on the side" IS 'mechs to MRMs. We will have to see.

Edited by Mole, 06 April 2017 - 10:10 AM.