310 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Really not a fan of ragging on someone over their personal stats because personal insults don't have any real use in discussions about what does and does not work overall.

Two things though -

Meta= Most Effective Tactic Available. Anyone who acts like meta is a bad word is being a nitwit. Taking good mechs with good builds is logical in the same way that not standing in the open shooting MLs at someone with Erppcs at 600m is logical. Meta mech builds are the good tactical decisions you make before you hit launch. That's it.

Saying what does and does not work is a product of being able to identify what does and does not work. In that conversation someone who wins way more than they lose is inherently going to be a better source of useful information than someone who loses more than they win.

There's no moral component to that - it's simple cold math. If someone "personal play style" involves them losing more often than they win and someone else has a "style" that wins more than they lose then the person who wins more is a more successful player and a better judge of what wins.

[Black Phoebe]

SQW, on 10 April 2017 - 06:42 AM, said:

I guess it's up to his team mates to decide whether that W/L rate is worth it for the 'fun' factor.

Well, after taking a short look at the leaderboards, i guess it it safe to say, that you struggle with light Mechs and yet you still play them. Apparently it is ok for you to have such low stats, so why not giving other people the same leeway?

Edit: This is not meant as a personal attack, im just wondering.

Edited by Black Phoebe, 10 April 2017 - 07:42 AM.

[SQW]

Black Phoebe, on 10 April 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:

Well, after taking a short look at the leaderboards, i guess it it safe to say, that you struggle with light Mechs and yet you still play them. Apparently it is ok for you to have such low stats, so why not giving other people the same leeway?

Edit: This is not meant as a personal attack, im just wondering.

My light stat for season 6 and 9 ( barely played 7, 8) has a big negative K/D but a 1.24 and 1.36 W/L for the simple reason I only run a Narc RVN-3L. I role play support scout so getting kills with 3MPLs is never a factor. However, my narc IS game winning especially considering solo QP isn't exactly narc-friendly.

If you play MWO a lot, then you know keeping a high win rate while depriving your team of a potential LCT or ACH in an under gunned Raven is no simple task. There's also no way I'd keep playing this mech or play it the way I like if I have a big negative W/L because that would be unfair to 11 other players.

[MechWarrior5152251]

LRM Battlemaster? Is there a Battlemaster with more than one missile hardpoint?

[Athom83]

MechWarrior5152251, on 10 April 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

LRM Battlemaster? Is there a Battlemaster with more than one missile hardpoint?

The 2C has 2.

[Battlemaster56]

MechWarrior5152251, on 10 April 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

LRM Battlemaster? Is there a Battlemaster with more than one missile hardpoint?

The 1S have 4 missile hardpoints

[Acehilator]

Damn, how could I miss this thread? Clueless "LRM Assaults are useless" crowd at it again, I see.

Good, good.

[ScrapIron Prime]

The thread title immediately made me compare it to "swipe right". But i digress...

LRMs on an assault mech are not wrong. Hanging back at 800 meters expecting your lurms to be useful and having no credible secondary weapons... Thats what is wrong.

Using lurms effectively takes more than just getting a lock and firing them. We should be teaching players this instead of just ridiculing them for selecting the weapon system.

[Lorcryst NySell]

ScrapIron Prime, on 10 April 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

Using lurms effectively takes more than just getting a lock and firing them. We should be teaching players this instead of just ridiculing them for selecting the weapon system.

Oh my Gourd, someone gets it ...

I'm a noob, I know, potato-esque too, I know ... but I think that it takes more player skill to effectively use LRMs than the usual "point and twitch click" that I constantly see with the PPCGauss current meta ...

BUT !

I'm bad with long-range weapons, when I do use LRMs it's within 500m with direct LoS ... and it's rare, my "best" range of engagement is around 200m.

[justcallme A S H]

Lorcryst NySell, on 10 April 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

but I think that it takes more player skill to effectively use LRMs than the usual "point and twitch click" that I constantly see with the PPCGauss current meta ...

I'm bad with long-range weapons

What? Aiming a Gauss/PPC @ 800m takes and hitting the open component (or the same one) etc etc takes exponentially more skill than lobbing LRMs around the place.

I cannot believe I just read such a statement...

Edited by justcallme A S H, 10 April 2017 - 09:59 AM.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Oh yeah, such skill, IF YOU ARE ACTUALLY AIMING FOR A COMPONENT !

What I see here in lowly Tier 5 Puglandia is rather "imavomitinyoface" than aiming though.

Of course, waiting for a lock and clicking the mouse takes almost no skill.

But then, hiding in a sniper spot zoomed in and clicking is not exactly rocket science either.

On the other hand, moving into position, using cover, getting your own locks, facetanking for 4-6 seconds without dying, map awareness, knowing your fire lanes and much more are the skills needed to make effective use of LRMs.

I'll readily admit I'm a bit trolling and playing Devil's Advocate here, and I don't know the GroupQ crowd well, but I have seen bad snipers and bad LRMers and bad brawlers aplenty. And sometimes I'm one of those, too.

The biggest difference is that I state my opinions without touting them as facts.

And if/when I'm wrong, I bow down to superior knowledge (not hate, not bragging, KNOWLEDGE), admit my faults, and try to be a better player/person.

Hate is the cancer, not the LRMs.

[MischiefSC]

Brawling successfully as more than a 1 for 1 trade (as in I kill you but I'm 1 touch from death) is probably the hardest skill to do well and play well.

[justcallme A S H]

Lorcryst NySell, on 10 April 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

The biggest difference is that I state my opinions without touting them as facts.

That is good, because the fact is you are wrong... Very wrong.

I can usually walk away from a QP match with 2-4 kills on average. I shoot what is open/weak. I know mech vulnerabilities (IS XL, what side weapons are on etc). This is far more involved than locking a missile and running around.

I can LRM properly, I can PPFLD to some level of decency... I can tell you now that LRM'ing is a easy joke to rack up 700dmg in a QP.

[Weeny Machine]

Valleric, on 08 April 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Its early in the morning so none of my buddies are on and had to drop solo. There were two assault mechs on my team. One was an lrm Battlemaster, the other a Warhawk (didnt have lrms but not sure of the loadout). Battle was on Canyon network. I politely ask the assaults to move up with the rest of the group and stay with the team, but they ignore me hanging out in the back. We are low on tonnage so I ask them to move up again when the center was being pushed by the enemies assaults, leaving a bunch of mediums and a couple heavies high and dry against the attack. I look back and see the Warhawk behind a rock far away in the back and the lrm Battlemaster even farther back behind the canyon. Yea, we lost. Hard. Im not going to {Godwin's Law} and tell people what to bring on their mechs because they aint in my circle and if someone wants to bring derp on an assault, its up to them. However sometimes its needed an assault move up and stay with the rest of the group despite loadout. I mean the lrm Battlemaster would have done way more damage at 300 yards or so. Instead he was firing out of range and out of usefulness. In low tonnage drops the assaults need to step up and stay with the group despite loadout. It was a tier 1 drop for me but I know matchmaker will take anyone it can find after a while, so I expect a little bit of derp. But that derp cost us the match. So please know what you are doing before you pilot an assault. I wont name shame, but those assault pilots were horribad. Please dont be a selfish player. Please stay with the team. Even if you have lrms on an assault or are geared towards range, please be a team player. That is all thank you.

It is pretty common in qp that assaults hang back - and with that I mean what you just mentioned. Sometimes they are half a map away in 2s or 3s. Most heavies do that as well. It is so pathetic and I want to punch something all the time I see it. However, my assumption is: the bigger the cassis, the smaller the p3nis

[Athom83]

Bush Hopper, on 10 April 2017 - 10:12 AM, said:

However, my assumption is: the bigger the cassis, the smaller the p3nis

Hence why the Locust has a big ****.

[Battlemaster56]

Bush Hopper, on 10 April 2017 - 10:12 AM, said:

It is pretty common in qp that assaults hang back - and with that I mean what you just mentioned. Sometimes they are half a map away in 2s or 3s. Most heavies do that as well. It is so pathetic and I want to punch something all the time I see it. However, my assumption is: the bigger the cassis, the smaller the p3nis

I understand that feeling all too well, good thing I play league before I start playing mechwarrior. So my salt level is at low to deal with pugs.

Athom83, on 10 April 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

Hence why the Locust has a big ****.

My Timberwolf cannot compare to that thing...

[DAYLEET]

justcallme A S H, on 10 April 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

That is good, because the fact is you are wrong... Very wrong.

I can usually walk away from a QP match with 2-4 kills on average. I shoot what is open/weak. I know mech vulnerabilities (IS XL, what side weapons are on etc). This is far more involved than locking a missile and running around.

I can LRM properly, I can PPFLD to some level of decency... I can tell you now that LRM'ing is a easy joke to rack up 700dmg in a QP.

700 lrm damage is **** compared to 300 gauss/ppc or ac20srm6 damage. esp is you can aim. 700damage is good for the eyes and the scoreboard but its always all over the place.

[Valleric]

Ruar, on 10 April 2017 - 06:06 AM, said:

Read the first few pages, skipped to the end.

The OP is absolutely correct that assaults need to learn to stay with the team and be up front regardless of loadout when playing QP. That doesn't mean they have to be the tip of the spear the entire time, but they do need to be close enough to share some armor and provide some intimidation to any push.

That also means assaults should never be full LRM builds in QP. LRMs should be considered support weaponry to provide a little punch at long range while closing the gap. Assaults have to be effective at 300m or less in order to truly fill their role of assaulting.

Sure, if you play as part of team with tactics and working together with specific builds then run whatever works, but when you are in QP you are expected to do one thing, and one thing only... Assault.

You can't assault if you are in the back lines throwing long range damage out. If you really want to play sniper or LRMer then hop in a medium or heavy and play a support role to your heart's content. The moment you hit the QP launch button in an assault mech you are agreeing to close with and destroy the enemy. Period.

The single biggest problem with assault mech players is they see all of that tonnage and assume they are now a slightly mobile weapons platform whose only role is to throw down damage. The truth is assault mechs are nearly as hard to play correctly as a light mech but people think as long as they are doing some damage and getting some kills they are ok.

As Dee pointed out, he didn't support his team because he didn't agree with what was being done. Which is the wrong answer. The first problem was playing QP in an LRM assault mech. The second problem was sitting back in said assault mech because the team wasn't playing the map the way he thought it should be played. You're in an assault mech, you assault. Maybe your team will still lose, but there is at least a chance a strong push in the wrong area can pull through. There is no chance for a weak push in the wrong area resulting in a win. Too many early losses with no real wearing down of enemy armor means the rest of the team just gets rolled.

Think of it like entering a room during CQB. When the first person goes through the door then the rest of the stack goes through the door. It doesn't matter if you agree with the decision or not, you stay with your team because you have a better chance of winning together than you do operating individually.

Which is the third problem Dee exhibits. He went into QP assuming everyone acts individually and so he justified acting like an individual. He brought a mech that fights as an individual instead of part of the team. He positioned that mech as an individual instead of as part of the team. And he died as an individual instead of part of the team.

A very common theme when it comes to people who play assault mechs.

Exactly

[Electroflameageddon]

My most successful Assault Mech is a Stalker 3F with LRM's.

I have over 300,000 xp in this mech. I don't play it that often now because LRMing is kind of boring.

When you are on a good communicating team, having 2,800 LRM's stripping armor on approaching mechs is awesome. Nothing better for my teammates who focus on one of my targets as I strip their armor and components away. Usually makes for quick kills.

But communication is vital. Not so great in solo queue, which is why I never drop with this mech in solo.

I've played matches with both of the players in this little melodrama and they are both decent players. They definitely have different play styles, but I've won games with them and also lost games with them.

[Valleric]

tker 669, on 10 April 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

If I wasn't aware of who you were fighting with I probably would not be on your side. From the point of view of face value, your posts look like f everybody I do what I want in a team game. People read that as coming off selfishly.

From you initial posts, I do not actually think that is where you are coming from. Am also familiar with the other guy who is probably the worst wanna be drop caller in puglandia and well known for being highly insulting.

Awww. You can't be talking about me. I'm really nice to everyone. Also I rarely drop call. I only do if no one steps up and there is a lack of communication. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way at some point.

Edited by Valleric, 10 April 2017 - 10:56 AM.