87 replies to this topic

[Marius Romanis]

oh they alter 1st post not add a new post / thread for quirks, I forgot.

Edited by CadoAzazel, 16 April 2017 - 02:01 AM.

[BrunoSSace]

Out of all of these I want the 1B the most. 3 srm6 with art. 3 machine guns. one medium pulse or flamer. Largest standard engine. Insane machine gun quirks. Maybe even ams cause looks likes you have heaps of tonage to play with. Id even put in a lbx 10 once I can use a Fusion Engine. But super tanky brawler looks like fun.

[KodiakGW]

CadoAzazel, on 15 April 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

wheres the quirks ?

Post midnight EST release. And now we know why.

It has better structure than armor quirks. Yep, because having extra life is going to matter when all the big weapons have been critted. Only +4 armor on its arms.

Edit: On the next point - it could be that if you get to remove hand actuators, the weapon moves from side to center arm mount. But, I believe that would be the first IS mech allowed to do that. We'll have to see Tuesday. End Edit
Plus I love the extra hitbox increase of side mounted arm weapons. Only the hero gets to get them mounted in the arms. At least it didn't get screwed with limited torso twist range.

Looks like I'll be doing what I said in another thread. Run them once during event to get an idea on how many were sold. Then shelve them until new weapons and new Skill Tree. Only reasons not to refund are the early adopter items.

Edited by KodiakGW, 16 April 2017 - 03:02 AM.

[Marius Romanis]

KodiakGW, on 16 April 2017 - 12:56 AM, said:

Plus I love the extra hitbox increase of side mounted arm weapons. Only the hero gets to get them mounted in the arms. At least it didn't get screwed with limited torso twist range..

Dont see how thats a huge problem, and are we looking at the same weapon hardpoints/mechs/quirks ?

Im looking at them and drooling and crying ill be waiting a month, at least its not the usual 3 months wait.

The hero variant looks like a fantastic mech.

Edited by CadoAzazel, 16 April 2017 - 02:07 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Arthur SIlverlake, on 15 April 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

you gave......the Mechs with 1 energy Hardpoint. an Energy Cooldown, The Missile Boats, Machine gun quirks, the Laser boat only a -5% Heat Gen...... and the mechs with single Missile Hard points a 15% Missile Cooldown..........

It is very.......underwhelming. You can argue that you are trying to make the weakest parts of the mechs better. But it definitly should have been the other way around especially since those quirks wouldn't matter a month later. Could have been more settling for the Variant( Give the 1A a Balistic CD Quirk, even if it only for 1 type of weapon like AC/10. and atleast give some Energy Boat 3A variant the energy CD Quirk, could even just be a Duration)

On the light side these things are going to be as tanky as a 70 tonner, with all those armor quirks. I think the only good variants are the 1C and the 2A mainly cause those are the ones with a high mount Balistic that can benefit the CD Quirk.,

edit notes: took off my little rant cause it was a bit too whiny

Don't know why your whining about offensive quirks.

It's got the best structure and armour quirks of any heavy mech at a time when P.G.I are reducing the offensive quirks of all mechs for the skill tree inclusion.

The Orion the most tanky Heavy in the Inner sphere in canon, gets a Ct armour bonus of 23 front armour only. The roughneck gets a combined Structure and armour bonus of 30, this makes it far more durable than the Orion which is bigger easier to hit

The bias P.G.I are giving this mech is sickening.

[KodiakGW]

CadoAzazel, on 16 April 2017 - 02:05 AM, said:

Dont see how thats a huge problem, and are we looking at the same weapon hardpoints/mechs/quirks ?

Yep, I am. Let's see. The one with the most ballistic points does not get any ballistic quirks. Not even MG ROF. The one with the most missile points does not get any missile quirks. A massive 20% Cooldown for your one slot head energy point on two variants. Energy boat gets 5% heat only. Yes, the 2B and 2A have decent ballistic cooldown. But, big ballistics take up more slots, so better chance of getting critted when armor is gone.

Really brings nothing that makes me drool, save maybe the hero. To each his own. We will agree to disagree (that includes anybody else going to quote me).

With the way laser hitscan registration treats me, anything that makes bigger hitboxes when mounting weapons on the arms just means I'll lose those sooner. Switching the armor and structure values would have helped with that.

[Tarogato]

Cathy, on 16 April 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

The Orion the most tanky Heavy in the Inner sphere in canon

Says who? =P

MAD-5D, Bandersnatch, Dragonfire, Perseus, Maelstrom, all have more armour, and the Archers, Penetrators, Dragoons, Caesars, a lot of Warhammers, and JM7's are pretty comparable.

Edited by Tarogato, 16 April 2017 - 03:08 AM.

[Bluttrunken]

As I suspected their baby gets alot of quirklove. The sidetorsos don't look particularly XL-friendly, though, and the mech is very reliant, for most variants, on ballistics and missiles, which is a double-edged sword on a 60 tonner.

Edited by Bluttrunken, 16 April 2017 - 04:15 AM.

[Karl Marlow]

Cathy, on 16 April 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

Don't know why your whining about offensive quirks.

It's got the best structure and armour quirks of any heavy mech at a time when P.G.I are reducing the offensive quirks of all mechs for the skill tree inclusion.

The Orion the most tanky Heavy in the Inner sphere in canon, gets a Ct armour bonus of 23 front armour only. The roughneck gets a combined Structure and armour bonus of 30, this makes it far more durable than the Orion which is bigger easier to hit

The bias P.G.I are giving this mech is sickening.

I don't know about the Bias but I find it funny that it has better quirks than the Orion. The Orion is extremely tanky in TT. Industrial mechs in TT tend to have engine stalls and Self Destruct randomly when taking damage or falling. I'm not sure where they got the idea these mechs were tanky juggernauts.

[Wanderer of the Mists]

Originally when I was looking at the quarks I had the same feelings of others that they didn't make much sense. But looking at it again after breakfast it makes more sense expectantly if they include this mech into the next skill tree test server. they are seeing if they need to get rid of all of the quarks or just the weapon specific ones. all and all I'm still excited and ready to... Rough some mechs up. Ehh? Ehh?

[Commander James Raynor]

Oh, come on!
Its quirks are just ridiculous. They don't make any sense. How does a 65 toms mech get 30 health to the CT, armor and structure to EVERY component, and offensive quirks. I know they wanted to make it a competitive mech, since it is their baby, but this is just absurd.

[Wanderer of the Mists]

Commander James Raynor, on 16 April 2017 - 04:59 AM, said:

Oh, come on!
Its quirks are just ridiculous. They don't make any sense. How does a 65 toms mech get 30 health to the CT, armor and structure to EVERY component, and offensive quirks. I know they wanted to make it a competitive mech, since it is their baby, but this is just absurd.

(sarcastically) sounds like the clans are just mad its IS and not clan. J/K. though them making a custom clan mech would be awesome. i love cannon and all but new blood can revitalize the whole game.

[Commander James Raynor]

Warden of Reason, on 16 April 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

(sarcastically) sounds like the clans are just mad its IS and not clan. J/K. though them making a custom clan mech would be awesome. i love cannon and all but new blood can revitalize the whole game.

I agree that new mechs are a good idea, but they need to keep the balance in mind, and not only inner sphere/clan, but even within the inner sphere. Why would anyone use another heavy if there is one that puts every other inner sphere mech to shame? The roughneck has the best hardpoint location of all inner sphere mechs, you can choose between laser vomit variants, ballistic boats or mixed loadouts, it has decent offensive quirks (20% ballistic cooldown is enough to make a build around), and the best survival quirks in the game. It will be, simply put, the best mech in the game in pretty much every aspect and by a long stretch.

If they made a clan mech that was this goood, I'd be pissed too, because it makes the game so much more frustrating. If you go around in your quickdraw, find an enemy roughneck, shoot all you have for a minute, do nothing to him and get wrecked, you won't be thinking "well, it was a good fight, this guy had better aim and I made the mistake of sutting down once. Fair is fair", you will be thinking "this is ********".

Of course it won't be as strong as a kodiak, buy it weights 65 tons. In proportional terms, it's better, and it's not supposed to be. We see the reverse problem with mechs like the king crab. Sure, it is a 100 tons mech, so it's strong, but it's so much weaker than other 100 tons mechs. It doesn't have the better weapons that DWF or KDK have, it has a bad geometry (its torsos are HUGE, all of them), and it has no quirks to compensate.

All I'm saying is that balancing mechs is not that hard: you compare mechs of similar weight, take into account geometry, hardpoints locations, hardpoints ammount and max engine size, and then compensate the weak points, plus something here or there if you want it to excell at some role. It's not hard and the roughneck fails at it. What bothers me the most is that it doesn't seem like they made a mistake, but that its imbalance is by design. They had done a pretty good job balancing new mechs, and when the builds seemed to be too problematic (KDK), they nerfed and it was ok, but in this case, they wanted their first mech to be the best. Not very serious of them.

Edited by Commander James Raynor, 16 April 2017 - 05:57 AM.

[MechLord71]

Honestly, let's wait and see how it plays before the shouts of OP or DOA start. It makes sense that it is tough and rugged to me. I do not think it will take the place of all my heavies. It will probably replace my Thunderbolts, but do not see it replacing my XL friendly Warhammers any time soon. The Roughneck looks very iffy for XL engines, so it will be slower since you need to load ballistics on there. Anyway, I am excited and I sincerely doubt this is the end all be all mech that the previous poster fears.

I also laugh when the balance for small laser/small pulse novas, jenner IICs and many others is so spot on that the mighty Rougheck draws clan ire. Speaking of proportional power...

[Arthur SIlverlake]

Commander James Raynor, on 16 April 2017 - 04:59 AM, said:

Oh, come on!
Its quirks are just ridiculous. They don't make any sense. How does a 65 toms mech get 30 health to the CT, armor and structure to EVERY component, and offensive quirks. I know they wanted to make it a competitive mech, since it is their baby, but this is just absurd.

Technically, they just made it very hard to kill, just by looking at structure and armor, it's a 65 ton Heavy Mech wanting to be a 80 ton Assault mech. As for the Offensive Quirks, most of them don't benefit the main weapons of the variant but the weakest part of the mech.

[Wanderer of the Mists]

MechLord71, on 16 April 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

Honestly, let's wait and see how it plays before the shouts of OP or DOA start. It makes sense that it is tough and rugged to me. I do not think it will take the place of all my heavies. It will probably replace my Thunderbolts, but do not see it replacing my XL friendly Warhammers any time soon. The Roughneck looks very iffy for XL engines, so it will be slower since you need to load ballistics on there. Anyway, I am excited and I sincerely doubt this is the end all be all mech that the previous poster fears.

I also laugh when the balance for small laser/small pulse novas, jenner IICs and many others is so spot on that the mighty Rougheck draws clan ire. Speaking of proportional power...

Agreed tell we see the performance of it we cant say anything as for replacing others even in it weight class catapults male better missile boats any day. It will have it's niche just like other mechs and besides the skill tree will take most of that away from them anyways

[John McHobo]

This is gonna be one tough Mech.

I like the general quirk layout - its an industrial mech so the durability is reasonable and while it has gotten offensive quirks as well those are in general put on the less- represented hardpoints.

KodiakGW, on 16 April 2017 - 12:56 AM, said:

Post midnight EST release. And now we know why.

It has better structure than armor quirks. Yep, because having extra life is going to matter when all the big weapons have been critted. Only +4 armor on its arms.

Not giving it only bonus armor is a good thing. If every mech just got bonus armor the entire concept of critical hits to components (ammo explosions, CASE, failing equipment) would become superfluous. It would be a shame to do that. Builds should be encouraged to consider damage control. Not dropping dead once your 100hp pool is emptied but being abled to fight in a damaged mech makes this game interesting.
Only really weak chassis should get strong armor quirks (e.g. the Cataphract).

Arthur SIlverlake, on 15 April 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

you gave......the Mechs with 1 energy Hardpoint. an Energy Cooldown, The Missile Boats, Machine gun quirks, the Laser boat only a -5% Heat Gen...... and the mechs with single Missile Hard points a 15% Missile Cooldown..........

Thats a smart move. A mech that can mount 4-6 hardpoints of the same weapon type does NOT need quirks for these hardpoints. That boating BS is terrible since the effects of the quirks are so powerful. Quirking underrepresented hardpoints is better, because players are encouraged to actually use them instead of going full boat.
The 20% energy cooldown might have even been higher. Why...because its one hardpoint in the cockpit of an IS mech.This means its at best one medium laser that benefits and not maybe 6 like on a boat build.

Offensive quirks are not bad, piling them on a dominant hardpoint type is.

edit: spelling

Edited by John McHobo, 16 April 2017 - 07:51 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I know it's been mentioned already, but that 1 energy slot 20% quirk...

... that big quirk can't be used to amplify the effects of boating massed numbers of weapons, and it makes the single hardpoint more worth using in the first place. It makes sense.

Many people believe quirks should only apply to a Mech's strengths or specialties. That's obviously what happened with the Hunchback's Hunch armor and AC/20 quirks. But sometimes quirks are also used to make something more appealing that otherwise would possibly go unused or be of little usefulness on its own.

"Zombieing" with a single Medium Laser is sooooo Closed Beta. The 20% quirk makes that slot at least a little more useful. If this were a Table Top game that slot would probably carry more use than here. But since it's here, might at well make it work more.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 16 April 2017 - 08:48 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Commander James Raynor, on 16 April 2017 - 04:59 AM, said:

Oh, come on!
Its quirks are just ridiculous. They don't make any sense. How does a 65 toms mech get 30 health to the CT, armor and structure to EVERY component, and offensive quirks. I know they wanted to make it a competitive mech, since it is their baby, but this is just absurd.

Quickdraw IV4 has had massive armor quirks for years and you're complaining about this thing now ?

[Commander James Raynor]

Dee Eight, on 16 April 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Quickdraw IV4 has had massive armor quirks for years and you're complaining about this thing now ?

Thw IV4 doesn't have the hardpoint quality or location of the Roughneck, nor as much survivability quirks. The roughneck can shoot without exposing anything, unlike the IV4, which has to face enemies with full frontal exposure. Not even in the same league.