Is Pilots- Clan Op?
#161
Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:43 PM
If you dont like that, the Blackkight does 5ERLL at 850 effective range, odd hardpoints but the structure buff makes up for it,the Grasshopper 5P with 5ERLL is godmode for its tonnage - even the Zeus and Quickdraw do 5ERLL and 4ERLL amazingly well. you want to trade at range, there is a single weapons system you should take. QUIRKED IS ERLL
other than that yeah, get out your lpls and get in close.
but you have a choice.
#162
Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:51 PM
You never can tell when you're spewing it.
Grandpa had a harsher noun, but you know gotta keep it PGi.
#163
Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:18 PM
Hans Davion, on 04 May 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:
If you dont like that, the Blackkight does 5ERLL at 850 effective range, odd hardpoints but the structure buff makes up for it,the Grasshopper 5P with 5ERLL is godmode for its tonnage - even the Zeus and Quickdraw do 5ERLL and 4ERLL amazingly well. you want to trade at range, there is a single weapons system you should take. QUIRKED IS ERLL
other than that yeah, get out your lpls and get in close.
but you have a choice.
Edited by Grus, 04 May 2017 - 01:18 PM.
#164
Posted 04 May 2017 - 09:54 PM
Grus, on 04 May 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:
Oh couldn't you fire 6 mini large laser before ghost heat
Is the Clan pulse not similar in beam duration with the is large
Are missile packs not half the weight?
Considering damage per tic er large laser are equal given the Clan weapon the edge.
Of course there are quirks but hey you can have those quirks to
Only need to drop with Koshis Fenris and Manowar.
And regarding Poptarters are not OP... oh they wouldn't not ne op given some circumstances.
well to say that you need to understand what the "goal" of the Poptarter is - you can find that in the wiki of MWLL... more or less
The goal is to maximize damage in the briefest of moments. So a short window of engagement.
Given the overall high rate of fire plus non natural choke points of maps - you need to cross through their aim more or less.
(i think poptartes more simple to kill on polar then on mining)
of course the first poptarter era had the issue of non working SRMs so that getting close an blast away didn't work so well. Of course mobility is an issue and after that its mobility - so to counter poptarts you need to find a sweet spot between size, mobility and firepower.
Not to mention that those darn jump jets are only good for poptarting but nothing else. You can't open another front without moving through choke points first - or at least you would need a medium or light lacking firepower to finish a poptart fast enough
and again a word about OP
OP is not what killed you OP is simple a balance of effort.
For exampe the first implementations of ECM - you could choose several ways to counter ECM - but all of them need some active actions and some tonnage were as ECM was simple there = OP
Same for poptarts or sniper in general - if the effort to counter them is much bigger - they are op.
Considering sniper - well I have only seen one guy in the last 25 matches who was a sniper - all the other guys were long range bullys
Edited by Karl Streiger, 04 May 2017 - 10:36 PM.
#165
Posted 05 May 2017 - 12:28 AM
Now imagine people bringing 8+ of them (40+ well quirked IS ERLL ... A GLORIOUS SIGHT^^).
Poptarts WILL GET REKT midair, no counter .
I´ve been on the receiving end as well as on the dealing end .
LISTEN to what Hans Davion says, that man knows what to bring where, and I for one dread him as an enemy, since he has excellent awareness, map positioning and high accuracy .
Fighting against him feels to me like fighting my evil twin .
GG EZ, bb clanners .
SO EASY ...
Edited by The Shortbus, 05 May 2017 - 12:30 AM.
#166
Posted 05 May 2017 - 12:54 AM
and quirks might be a thing of the past soon enough
#167
Posted 05 May 2017 - 06:53 AM
Karl Streiger, on 04 May 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:
Is the Clan pulse not similar in beam duration with the is large
Are missile packs not half the weight?
Considering damage per tic er large laser are equal given the Clan weapon the edge.
Of course there are quirks but hey you can have those quirks to
Only need to drop with Koshis Fenris and Manowar.
And regarding Poptarters are not OP... oh they wouldn't not ne op given some circumstances.
well to say that you need to understand what the "goal" of the Poptarter is - you can find that in the wiki of MWLL... more or less
The goal is to maximize damage in the briefest of moments. So a short window of engagement.
Given the overall high rate of fire plus non natural choke points of maps - you need to cross through their aim more or less.
(i think poptartes more simple to kill on polar then on mining)
of course the first poptarter era had the issue of non working SRMs so that getting close an blast away didn't work so well. Of course mobility is an issue and after that its mobility - so to counter poptarts you need to find a sweet spot between size, mobility and firepower.
Not to mention that those darn jump jets are only good for poptarting but nothing else. You can't open another front without moving through choke points first - or at least you would need a medium or light lacking firepower to finish a poptart fast enough
and again a word about OP
OP is not what killed you OP is simple a balance of effort.
For exampe the first implementations of ECM - you could choose several ways to counter ECM - but all of them need some active actions and some tonnage were as ECM was simple there = OP
Same for poptarts or sniper in general - if the effort to counter them is much bigger - they are op.
Considering sniper - well I have only seen one guy in the last 25 matches who was a sniper - all the other guys were long range bullys
#168
Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:11 PM
I'm all for a Stock loadout no Basics gamemode.
#169
Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:47 PM
The Shortbus, on 05 May 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:
Now imagine people bringing 8+ of them (40+ well quirked IS ERLL ... A GLORIOUS SIGHT^^).
Poptarts WILL GET REKT midair, no counter .
I´ve been on the receiving end as well as on the dealing end .
LISTEN to what Hans Davion says, that man knows what to bring where, and I for one dread him as an enemy, since he has excellent awareness, map positioning and high accuracy .
Fighting against him feels to me like fighting my evil twin .
GG EZ, bb clanners .
SO EASY ...
No one in their right mind attempts to poptart extreme range IS ERLL boats. Night Gyrs excel at the 600-700m range. I find that I trade well at extreme range with ERLL, regardless of whether I am playing Clan or IS that week. Clan will usually use CERLL Hellbringers at extreme range to deal with ERLL Battlemaster/Grasshoppers (yes, there is a tonnage/armor/burn duration disparity). Yes, IS can fire 3 ERLL (27 damage @810m for 1.25s, default values) vs Clan 2 CERLL (22 damage @ 843m for 1.5s)
I usually take 3 5xERLL Grasshopper 5P +55 tonner as my extreme range deck as IS, while I take 2 4xCERLL Hellbringers + 2 2xCERPPC Hunchbacks as my extreme range deck as Clan (or 3x 4xCERLL Hellbringer + Light.
Grasshopper is 5xERLL 45 alpha for 80% of heat bar (Polar Highlands), 1.06s burn at 810m (can only alpha once, then have to cycle 3+2)
Hellbringer is 4xCERLL 44 alpha for 60% of heat bar (Polar Highlands), 1.5s burn at 843m (can alpha twice, then cycle 2+2)
Grasshopper dies from XL torso loss
Hellbringer lives with CXL torso loss (though if you lose left torso, 75% weapons are gone)
Obviously I did not include the Battlemaster 1G with 6ERLL for 54 damage at 1.25S burn. There is an obvious armor advantage to using the Battlemaster as the poke mech, granted that mech runs hot even on Polar Highlands.
Overall, IS has the slight edge in extreme poking.
Grus, on 05 May 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:
Assuming both sides are face tanking each other and both sides get full burn on each other, it's very close.
2 CERLL = 22 damage 843m
3 ERLL = 27 damage 810m
If you are shooting under IS optimum range (under 810m) IS wins. If you are shooting outside Clan optimal range (greater than 843m) IS damage dropoff will almost even out the 5 damage difference. Consider that a 70 ton Grasshoper has 5xERLL (45 damage) vs a 65 ton Hellbringer has 4xCERLL (44 damage), then it comes out pretty equal (this is again assuming you are able to get full burn off from both sides). The Grasshopper runs hotter than the Hellbringer, but the Hellbringer has almost .5 seconds longer burn duration.
If you look at standard IS large laser (which is balanced against the Clan LPL), 3 LL = 27 damage, while 2 CLPL = 26 damage.
Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 05 May 2017 - 02:55 PM.
#170
Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:58 PM
Vxheous Kerensky, on 05 May 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:
No one in their right mind attempts to poptart extreme range IS ERLL boats. Night Gyrs excel at the 600-700m range. I find that I trade well at extreme range with ERLL, regardless of whether I am playing Clan or IS that week. Clan will usually use CERLL Hellbringers at extreme range to deal with ERLL Battlemaster/Grasshoppers (yes, there is a tonnage/armor/burn duration disparity). Yes, IS can fire 3 ERLL (27 damage @810m for 1.25s, default values) vs Clan 2 CERLL (22 damage @ 843m for 1.5s)
I usually take 3 5xERLL Grasshopper 5P +55 tonner as my extreme range deck as IS, while I take 2 4xCERLL Hellbringers + 2 2xCERPPC Hunchbacks as my extreme range deck as Clan (or 3x 4xCERLL Hellbringer + Light.
Grasshopper is 5xERLL 45 alpha for 80% of heat bar (Polar Highlands), 1.06s burn at 810m (can only alpha once, then have to cycle 3+2)
Hellbringer is 4xCERLL 44 alpha for 60% of heat bar (Polar Highlands), 1.5s burn at 843m (can alpha twice, then cycle 2+2)
Grasshopper dies from XL torso loss
Hellbringer lives with CXL torso loss (though if you lose left torso, 75% weapons are gone)
Obviously I did not include the Battlemaster 1G with 6ERLL for 54 damage at 1.25S burn. There is an obvious armor advantage to using the Battlemaster as the poke mech, granted that mech runs hot even on Polar Highlands.
Overall, IS has the slight edge in extreme poking.
Assuming both sides are face tanking each other and both sides get full burn on each other, it's very close.
2 CERLL = 22 damage 843m
3 ERLL = 27 damage 810m
If you are shooting under IS optimum range (under 810m) IS wins. If you are shooting outside Clan optimal range (greater than 843m) IS damage dropoff will almost even out the 5 damage difference. Consider that a 70 ton Grasshoper has 5xERLL (45 damage) vs a 65 ton Hellbringer has 4xCERLL (44 damage), then it comes out pretty equal (this is again assuming you are able to get full burn off from both sides). The Grasshopper runs hotter than the Hellbringer, but the Hellbringer has almost .5 seconds longer burn duration.
If you look at standard IS large laser (which is balanced against the Clan LPL), 3 LL = 27 damage, while 2 CLPL = 26 damage.
Did.. did someone from the Alpha Wolves just confirm my argument? Can someone check and see of he'll froze over?
#171
Posted 05 May 2017 - 04:46 PM
Hans Davion, on 04 May 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:
WHK TC7 / 5ERL - 888m GG
That said, you don't fight at 1000m with that thing. You fight at 1500m. Same as cERPPC poptarting. That is how you have to do it as Clan or pay the price
But otherwise, I concur with everything you've said as usual.
The other good build is actually the EBJ 4 x ERL. That thing is better than a HBR. Again you gotta use that added TC range advantage, almost a baby WHK. Only issue I struggle with in the EBJ is that above cockpit torso, it can lead to being shot before you see what is shooting you. Map / battle awareness can beat that though.
#172
Posted 05 May 2017 - 06:12 PM
Will that make a difference in the Long run. As far as the event is concerned?
#173
Posted 05 May 2017 - 06:51 PM
#174
Posted 05 May 2017 - 08:12 PM
#175
Posted 05 May 2017 - 11:10 PM
Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 19 April 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:
dude say the **** u want, but this event says the oposite, TY
or sure, maybe just "good clan pilots" and "poor IS pilots" play FW, maybe ALL the facts are wrong and your ****** post is true...
#176
Posted 06 May 2017 - 01:10 AM
Grus, on 05 May 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:
No, I said that IS shooting 3 vs Clan shooting 2 is less of an advantage than you think. 3 IS ERLL is also 24 heat at 15 tons, while 2 clan ERLL is 20 heat at 8 tons (allowing for more two slot double heatsinks to be packed on)
#177
Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:19 AM
So yes, Clan is OP.
Before it was 50%, now it is 65% stronger.
#178
Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:33 AM
Ajantise, on 24 May 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:
So yes, Clan is OP.
Before it was 50%, now it is 65% stronger.
First:
"Indestructible side torso XL" - I get what you are trying to say (won't die from loss of an ST), but its not like they are unaffected by the loss. IS will be getting LFEs in a couple of months, hang in there.
Second:
"double the weapons with half the slots" - a bit of an exaggeration in most cases. The only time they take up "half the slots" is when the IS equivalent is 2 slots. Normally its closer to 3/4 or 2/3 the slots.
Third:
"They have a heat penalty that can be avoided by firing in chain." - And IS doesn't?
Fourth:
"Before it was 50%, now it is 65% stronger." - Maths or it didn't happen.
Not to be trollish, but ironically, someone from the clan side post this thread today:
https://mwomercs.com...661-is-madness/
Players on both sides complaining about the other side having unfair advantages... interesting...
Edited by MovinTarget, 24 May 2017 - 10:34 AM.
#179
Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:18 AM
MovinTarget, on 24 May 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:
First:
"Indestructible side torso XL" - I get what you are trying to say (won't die from loss of an ST), but its not like they are unaffected by the loss. IS will be getting LFEs in a couple of months, hang in there.
Second:
"double the weapons with half the slots" - a bit of an exaggeration in most cases. The only time they take up "half the slots" is when the IS equivalent is 2 slots. Normally its closer to 3/4 or 2/3 the slots.
Third:
"They have a heat penalty that can be avoided by firing in chain." - And IS doesn't?
Fourth:
"Before it was 50%, now it is 65% stronger." - Maths or it didn't happen.
Not to be trollish, but ironically, someone from the clan side post this thread today:
https://mwomercs.com...661-is-madness/
Players on both sides complaining about the other side having unfair advantages... interesting...
First: We agree i hope?
ps. I am not playing until they make the LFE, i am sick of the constant playing with this penalty.
Second: Did you ever see an IS mech with 15 lasers? Or 5x6 streaks?
Third: You did not understand. I was referring to the penalty the clan has with heat.
So the fourth is: ((First+Second)-Third) =50.
Now + No quirks =65
#180
Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:39 AM
So I've been leveling mechs on an alt account, specifically Warhammers (thanks for the sale!) and I can't afford XL engines. It doesn't seem to be that much of a problem. I am just running 67kph instead of 80... If I lose a torso, I am not penalized in heat or movement. If you are losing your torsos too quick, simply don't use an XL.
Its still apples to oranges. The 15 laser example is an extreme boundary case, only available on, what... 2-3 variants that have considerable drawbacks of speed and/or survivability. The pilot would have to commit so much face time to using all that invested tonnage that is would be rather silly save for niche scenarios.
Come Civil War, you'll have multiple IS mechs that will be able to equip 6+ Streaks (multiple Archers, to start with), so again... hang in there. That is an effective *anti-Light* build, but it simply doesn't work well against anything larger than 45 tons unless already shot up due to spread.
Conversely, consider the 9 SPL Hunchback that, if allowed to close the distance, HAS NO GHOST HEAT.
Now to your... maths... I'm still not sure of your numbers but I will point out that there ARE quirks still, just not as many since you can get them as skills now.
Again, been leveling warhammers and not seeing too much of an overall problem in QP...
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