365 replies to this topic

[Nothar]

Vxheous, on 22 April 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I mean, to be fair, the IS doesn't have a viable counter to the PPFLD poptart meta. IS has no Night Gyr equivalent that runs cool on the hottest maps, while being able to poptart PPFLD. Getting smoked by multiple Night Gyr pop-tarts while closing in an IS XL mech = teh suck

High peak alpha is the biggest issue. If you peak a corner and alpha in a clan mech the battle of attrition is already won. From the the moment you trip out of drop ship and stumble into your victory. Across all weight classes in comparison. Across all ranges. Clan mechs will out shoot all Inner-sphere counterparts with anywhere from 10-30 plus damage on the peak. The burn time on clan mechs in all truth needs to be .33 longer then it currently is to be even remotely considered a balancing factor to inferior range, hard point allocation and sluggish mechs. That will never be.

The release of the nightstar and thantos is a step in the right direction you can feel the difference. But 80% of IS mechs need to be reprocessed in the balence calculator.

And you don't need heavy lasers. If clanners get them, innersphere get them, simple.

Edited by Nothar, 03 December 2017 - 02:45 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Nightstar and Thanatos are steps in the right direction? Wat.

[Tarl Cabot]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 December 2017 - 05:23 PM, said:

Nightstar and Thanatos are steps in the right direction? Wat.

(chuckles) tis amazing, isnt it?

Normalizing isXL to cXL should be the first steps in the right direction, unfortunately but many keep missing that..

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 December 2017 - 06:23 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Tarl Cabot, on 04 December 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

(chuckles) tis amazing, isnt it?

Normalizing isXL to cXL should be the first steps in the right direction, unfortunately but many keep missing that..

Doesn't buy much. I've run the numbers on this many times. It's a nice-to-have, and then you realize all you are really doing is gaining 3 damage here, 4 kph there, and really diddly squat for major impact to balance.

Slots get you every time.

[NocturnalBeast]

Tarl Cabot, on 04 December 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

(chuckles) tis amazing, isnt it?

Normalizing isXL to cXL should be the first steps in the right direction, unfortunately but many keep missing that..

People miss it, because it should never happen, since IS and Clan XLs are not meant to be equal. IS has LFE now, so there is not as much of a difference as there was.

[Tarl Cabot]

Ed Steele, on 04 December 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

People miss it, because it should never happen, since IS and Clan XLs are not meant to be equal. IS has LFE now, so there is not as much of a difference as there was.

Normalized, not equal with what happens when one ST is destroyed. Since PGI is only using part of the TT ruleset they should be using it as a guideline. isXL should survive the loss of a side torso with greater movement/heat penalties, LFE penalties slightly reduced and cXL heat penalty slightly reduced.

cXL ran for several months without any heat penalties then the movement penalty was not added for 18 months after Clan's release.

And for the slots and weight when Endo can not be taken for the weight savings due to it taking 14 slots, gaining that weight difference from the isXL is important, more so considering majority of IS components are bulkier and heavier than Clan components. All of this has been kicked around in other threads.

But do you want to buy a mechpack? Even though many of the IS omni mechs base models are not quality mechs in MWO. With the current MWO omni setup, if PGI were to ever try to release any how will that actually go?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 05 December 2017 - 04:16 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Tarl Cabot, on 05 December 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

Even though many of the IS omni mechs base models are not quality mechs in MWO. With the current MWO omni setup, if PGI were to ever try to release any how will that actually go?

IS Omnis will be interesting. So many mechs that are OP or utter garbage everywhere else in the BT universe seem to be innately the opposite in MWO. Yes, partly because of quirks, but also because of the rules implementation and the removal of certain RNG elements like pilot and gunnery skills.

But what would give IS Omnis a real chance? Lots of high mounts. People can diddle with loadouts all day long but high mounts make it work in more situations. The only problem is that IS Omnis that are good would accelerate the obsolescence of IS Battlemechs and that might not be good for PGI's economy long term...

[Y E O N N E]

The only IS Omnis that are worth a damn are the Raptor, Blackhawk-KU, and Men Shen. They are all capable of boating more energy weapons than any existing IS 'Mechs. Unfortunately, none of them can cool those massed weapons because IS DHS are three slots. The Raptor and Men Shen have high mounts, the KU does not. All of them are XL-only, and the Raptor is only as fast as a Mist Lynx.

All the other IS Omnis have less favorable equipment, hardpoints, and/or geo.

I don't think there is any danger of IS BattleMech obsolescence.

[Odanan]

Honestly? I think this game is in the best balancing state since before the Clans showed up.

My unit alternates from Clan/IS every two weeks, and except some changes in play style, we have the same (great) results in Faction Play.

Edited by Odanan, 05 December 2017 - 10:04 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Tarl Cabot, on 05 December 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

isXL should survive the loss of a side torso with greater movement/heat penalties, LFE penalties slightly reduced and cXL heat penalty slightly reduced.

But why should the penalties be greater for ISXL? It seems more logical that the penalties are slightly lower since the ISXL already has the downside of being larger.

[MovinTarget]

Sjorpha, on 05 December 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

But why should the penalties be greater for ISXL? It seems more logical that the penalties are slightly lower since the ISXL already has the downside of being larger.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


you used the word "logic"

[Odanan]

Sjorpha, on 05 December 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

But why should the penalties be greater for ISXL? It seems more logical that the penalties are slightly lower since the ISXL already has the downside of being larger.

The same reason IS Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous occupy twice more criticals and the IS weapons are inferior: because Clans are more advanced (lore). I know, the problem is when you try to balance Clan vs. IS in 1:1. But... I think IS is doing fine (because of the quirks).

[WobblyShooter]

IMHO, there is balance, but it is asymmetric. The clan win the range game, the IS wins the brawl. the issue with that is that closing to win the brawl requires coordination and discipline, something that pugs are going to struggle with as a matter of course. the clan poke game can be done successfully without coordination, therefore pugs will be more successful. Its as simple as that.

[Kubernetes]

I don't see as much imbalance nowadays. The BLR is still nasty, IS can compete at long range, Clan can now fight at mid-range and brawl. I'd like to see the IS LPL get its damage back to counteract the heat efficiency of the cMPL... and maybe something to nerf the Assassin 21, but aside from that I think balance is decent.

[MovinTarget]

Kubernetes, on 05 December 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

and maybe something to nerf the Assassin 21

Initiate sarkazm

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo! We only cry about the imbalances that are unfair to *US*!!!!


/sarkazm

[Tarl Cabot]

Sjorpha, on 05 December 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

But why should the penalties be greater for ISXL? It seems more logical that the penalties are slightly lower since the ISXL already has the downside of being larger.

isXL 3 slots = 25% damaged/destroyed vs cXL 2 slots 20% damaged/destroyed for the same weight savings.

And if PGI made it survivable, based on their previous history would you really expect them to make the isXL BETTER than the cXL?

[Y E O N N E]

Tarl Cabot, on 05 December 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

isXL 3 slots = 25% damaged/destroyed vs cXL 2 slots 20% damaged/destroyed for the same weight savings.

And if PGI made it survivable, based on their previous history would you really expect them to make the isXL BETTER than the cXL?

Just because PGI won't apply mathematical common sense to the concept of "trade-offs" doesn't mean we shouldn't.

Kubernetes, on 05 December 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

I don't see as much imbalance nowadays. The BLR is still nasty, IS can compete at long range, Clan can now fight at mid-range and brawl. I'd like to see the IS LPL get its damage back to counteract the heat efficiency of the cMPL... and maybe something to nerf the Assassin 21, but aside from that I think balance is decent.

Better hit the 23 at the same time. Same armor buffs, 10% missile cooldown, I'd just swap over and use 3x SRM6 on it instead of 4xSRM4 on the 21.

[Kubernetes]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 December 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

Just because PGI won't apply mathematical common sense to the concept of "trade-offs" doesn't mean we shouldn't.



Better hit the 23 at the same time. Same armor buffs, 10% missile cooldown, I'd just swap over and use 3x SRM6 on it instead of 4xSRM4 on the 21.

That one too. You know it's an issue when you're guaranteed to see at least a dozen of the things in every FP drop. I know when I drop IS I always bring one, sometimes two. Used to be the same with the Linebacker.

Edited by Kubernetes, 05 December 2017 - 05:25 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Kubernetes, on 05 December 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

That one too. You know it's an issue when you're guaranteed to see at least a dozen of the things in every FP drop. I know when I drop IS I always bring one, sometimes two. Used to be the same with the Linebacker.

I know right? Good thing clams don't have any fast meta ankle biters with like... i dunno... 6 light mg...

They have better streaks than IS, if assasins are a problem and predictable, they should be bringing them...

I know every FP deck i bring has a streak boat...

[Y E O N N E]

Kubernetes, on 05 December 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

That one too. You know it's an issue when you're guaranteed to see at least a dozen of the things in every FP drop. I know when I drop IS I always bring one, sometimes two. Used to be the same with the Linebacker.

Still is the same with the Linebacker. It spreads damage exceedingly well due to small size and phenomenal shape and still it has some pretty generous armor quirks. It's got 2/3s the armor quirks of a Dragon despite being twice the 'Mech the Dragon is when neither has quirks. Even CPLTs don't get defensive quirks like that.

Were it not for the tonnage crutch in FP and the fact that Linebackers have to square up against other Clan 'Mechs in the rest of the game, they'd be pretty broken too.

TBQH, I have a hard time ragging on the ASN when, for as good as it is, it's still not running amok throughout the game. They are still mediums and they still die pretty easy when they can't hit and run. Just like the LBK. To me, this is just another case of knee-jerk reactions like we saw when the Blackjack was made good. People just can't get it out of their heads that a lighter 'Mech should be crappy compared to a heavier one.