155 replies to this topic

[Grus]

ClanBondsman, on 19 May 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

My 2 cents worth.. I am a new player.. started playing just around time tuka3 event started.
For those wondering I did pay some so I am a freemium player ie I play mostly free but with some paying here and there to support the game.
When I started playing 2 weeks ago I felt the mech's were balanced and was actually having fun learning the game and playing with my unit mates.. did poorly at first but when I finally hit about 100 hours of play time started doing pretty decent... got a few kills per match and went from like 50 match score to 100+ most matches.
I am still a green player and still learning the game.. then all of a sudden they announce this new skill tree.. I am thinking to myself oh cool maybe an oppurtunity to catch up with players who have played a bit and put us on equal ground.
BOY WAS I WRONG ABOUT THAT!!!
The new skill tree is a nightmare.. I picked what I thought would be good skills for 2 of my 4 mechs that I have purchased.. and playing them did not feel balanced at all!!
I went from 100's match score down to about 20's as the mechs now feel useless in fights even though I took max armor tree, bolstered my weapons and even took spotting mech tree stuff to make so I could spot and hold target on enemy mech easier, however the actual gameplay I got was not at all what the skill tree would suggest.. my mech felt unbalanced and was a pain in the A** to play.. literally was no fun at all.
I am not sure if developers intended to make new players want to quit or not.. but this skill tree took any fun I was having out of the game.
Not only do you throw this big clunky skill tree at us.. but you don't even include a tutorial or anything along with it so new players understand what they are doing.. ie what the F*** is torso yaw.. torso turn speed and all these things mean?? I am sure players who have been playing this game years know what everything does and means.. but was any thought put into what will new players think about this??
IN SHORT YOU TURNED BALANCED MECHS WITH A VARIETY OF PLAY STYLES INTO COOKIE CUTTER SKILL TREE THAT IS CLUNKY/CONFUSING AS **** AND A TURNOFF TO ANY NEW PLAYERS.
I decided the minute I logged into my favorite mech and tested the skill tree that I would NOT be playing this game again for several months if at all again.
I really liked the old system with basic, elite, mastery tiers however I felt they were kinda cookie cutter as well.. should have something similar maybe but with each mech being somewhat specialized with a possible option that after you have mastered the mech you could then go back and use cbills/mech specific XP you have accumulated to then specilize your mech by changing the mastery tier (nodes) to whatever you want.. ie basic tier came with like accel/decel/ some heat things.. you could change the accel/decel to example capture points faster or whatever.. would offer far more customize ability but still make the mechs balanced and new player friendly.

There is serious balance issues with the new skill tree and the game is no longer any fun for me.
Randomly reading through other player comments I can agree whole-hearted that you will lose paying members of this game just as you lose your F2P members as both will find the game not to be fun anymore, when the F2P start leaving the que times will get longer.. and soon enough you will have 30+ minute que times for Paying members to fight other Paying members whom they can't crush as easily and so they will get bored of fighting their counterparts over and over and over as you will not have any fresh blood to satisfy them and the long wait times will drive them nuts. I have played several several games and seen many go out of business due to ignoring their f2p playerbase.
Simply put with an online game that requires other players if you don't have other players to play with and against it is no fun for anyone.

I really do hope you read these comments and Fix your broken game developers.. if not.. no skin off my teeth as they say.
Until then I will be playing other games that while not the best at least they are balanced and playable with some fun involved.

Ok, so I guess we all have to pander to the instant gratification crowed now... come on it's not that difficult of a system. Pick a mech, say a purifier, no matter how much SP you put into durability you'll never come out unscathed form a full alpha from a Battlemaster. So skill it and build it accordingly. Mine I have set for support and mid range harass. Ams, ecm, and 4ermed. Full skills on sensors and mobility,sprinkle a little in Lahore to help them out and durability and it works like a charm! If this is such a hard thing for you to comprehend I pray you never play Eve...

[ClanBondsman]

Grus, on 19 May 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

Ok, so I guess we all have to pander to the instant gratification crowed now... come on it's not that difficult of a system. Pick a mech, say a purifier, no matter how much SP you put into durability you'll never come out unscathed form a full alpha from a Battlemaster. So skill it and build it accordingly. Mine I have set for support and mid range harass. Ams, ecm, and 4ermed. Full skills on sensors and mobility,sprinkle a little in Lahore to help them out and durability and it works like a charm! If this is such a hard thing for you to comprehend I pray you never play Eve...

Apparantly you did not read what I wrote.. pander to instant gratification crowd.. you didn't spell that right btw.
I didn't ask for any instant gratification.. I said under the old system the mechs felt more balanced and were easier for a new player to play, I had fun playing under the old system I also said to use the old master tier system and include options after you master the tier to customize your mechs, apparently your reading skills are not the best.
I am a new player.. you are not... I find the skill tree confusing and actual gameplay/balance of the mech's have decreased for me and several other players I know.
I am glad you seem to like the new skill tree.. awesome for you!
However most of my unit memebers do not like the new skill tree and I am sure it will be just as confusing for any other new players like me.
I am stating my opinion based on my experience and even offering suggestions to improve play for new players and old players alike.
Thanks for taking time to read my post though : ) However you flame my post and trying to label me as an instant grat player even though that is not at all what I said or suggested is not nice and you should be ashamed.

Edited by ClanBondsman, 19 May 2017 - 08:53 AM.

[Grus]

ClanBondsman, on 19 May 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Apparantly you did not read what I wrote.. pander to instant gratification crowd.. you didn't spell that right btw.
I didn't ask for any instant gratification.. I said under the old system the mechs felt more balanced and were easier for a new player to play, I had fun playing under the old system I also said to use the old master tier system and include options after you master the tier to customize your mechs, apparently your reading skills are not the best.
I am a new player.. you are not... I find the skill tree confusing and actual gameplay/balance of the mech's have decreased for me and several other players I know.
I am glad you seem to like the new skill tree.. awesome for you!
However most of my unit memebers do not like the new skill tree and I am sure it will be just as confusing for any other new players like me.
I am stating my opinion based on my experience and even offering suggestions to improve play for new players and old players alike.
Thanks for taking time to read my post though : ) However you flame my post and trying to label me as an instant grat player even though that is not at all what I said or suggested is not nice and you should be ashamed.

you spelled gratification wrong, and members.. But I get what you're saying. My question is do you find pong complicated? Because if you do then I can completely understand why the skill tree is a tough thing for you to understand. If your unit is having trouble understanding it or making good use of it then I would get on the IS TS hubs and jump into one of the more experienced suits channels and ask questions and see if they can give you tips.

[ClanBondsman]

Grus, on 19 May 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

you spelled gratification wrong, and members.. But I get what you're saying. My question is do you find pong complicated? Because if you do then I can completely understand why the skill tree is a tough thing for you to understand. If your unit is having trouble understanding it or making good use of it then I would get on the IS TS hubs and jump into one of the more experienced suits channels and ask questions and see if they can give you tips.

^ This guy.. still trying to argue with me .. about what I think... *just laughs*
You can argue until your blue in the face there buddy but you won't change my mind on WHAT I THINK!
Not sure if your trying to belittle me either but really? How about you learn to understand what your reading before you start making comments on others.
The old system had none of this confusion and worked just fine, was far more new player friendly.
Old system was fun and compared to this new skill tree was far more balanced.
He just simply doesn't get it.. I guess that is probably due to the fact that he is not a new player?
I would love to hear other new player thoughts on this skill tree please : )
Oh yeah also there Grus will be ignoring any further comments you direct my way as they are in no way constructive.

Edited by ClanBondsman, 19 May 2017 - 09:20 AM.

[Grus]

ClanBondsman, on 19 May 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

^ This guy.. still trying to argue with me .. about what I think... *just laughs*
You can argue until your blue in the face there buddy but you won't change my mind on WHAT I THINK!
Not sure if your trying to belittle me either but really? How about you learn to understand what your reading before you start making comments on others.
The old system had none of this confusion and worked just fine, was far more new player friendly.
Old system was fun and compared to this new skill tree was far more balanced.
He just simply doesn't get it.. I guess that is probably due to the fact that he is not a new player?
I would love to hear other new player thoughts on this skill tree please : )
Oh yeah also there Grus will be ignoring any further comments you direct my way as they are in no way constructive.

How is the old system new player friendly? You would have to buy 3 mech's and fit them out and play the crap out of them in order to master 1. Now you only have to buy 1 and can master it as you play. Now you can buy the mech you want to play because you like it for reasons and not spend millions of cbills in mods to kit it put right. So in all WAY less expensive.also means less mech bays needed to get a FP dropdeck set up with masters mech's. So again, less expensive. So less expensive, less time to master, and less mech bays needed... how again is this not helping new players get to the "endgame" of FP?

[Darkhorse045]

Grus, on 19 May 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

How is the old system new player friendly? You would have to buy 3 mech's and fit them out and play the crap out of them in order to master 1. Now you only have to buy 1 and can master it as you play. Now you can buy the mech you want to play because you like it for reasons and not spend millions of cbills in mods to kit it put right. So in all WAY less expensive.also means less mech bays needed to get a FP dropdeck set up with masters mech's. So again, less expensive. So less expensive, less time to master, and less mech bays needed... how again is this not helping new players get to the "endgame" of FP?

This, every day this. I prefer the new system to the old by far. Sure, I can moan about the mechs I have in my bays and how long it will take to skill them. Most I don't touch unless I fancy pulling them out for a spin anyways. I skill them up as I use them. Mechs like my Assassins, Black Knights, and Wolfhounds I skilled up immediately as I drop in them more than any other mech.

Lastly, the skill system is not hard at all. If you want to look at a complex skill system, look at EVE Online, that is a real complex tree. Ours may consume time, but it isn't hard at all.

[Sharkomodo]

I just hate it, period. I don't play any other games, and I hate what this has done to MWO. I didn't mind buying/playing 3 mechs at all. That's why i have 236 of them. I also didn't mind skilling them up. That's me, the game changed, I quit. Nothing to argue over.

[Pinkelton]

Logged in played with nodes, hated it logged out to write this post. I am very glad someone beat me to it. I have played this game for a very long time but I think my playing and paying days are over.

[RyHavoc]

hate to jump on board with the haters but here i go ....

This "upgrade" gets a rating of : F****G LAME, with a side of pure Sh*TE!
I am currently waiting on $120 worth of civil war mechs ...wooooo. ( its like waiting for my 73 AMC pacer to be delivered . F*** Me)

I spent 1.5 hours trying to read the forums and figure out the craptastic galatic star map of unrelated skills that was put together by a UI engineer on adarol and to much red bull... that thing is god awful. Was this the idea for "improvement"...well you missed.

been playing long enough that you gave me a pitence for my "old" mod's that i paid real Cbills for... but now you can super "speacilize" your mech... & pay through the nose if you EVER want to change it ...

I guess your attracting huge amounts of new players, so much so that you dont need the folks that have continually spent real $, real time, and real effort,... and provided an easy target for all the "Super Duper Whale-like Awesome A players" ...
the difference was i used to be able to have fun with it too ...


Played 8 to 10 quickplay matches, lost them all, no higher match score than 130, watching Clan mechs literally running circles around IS players....i think the TTK has actaully gone down ...

i belive that you will end up with 47 super comptetive players, and dont worry, they wont be happy with any you do anyway...
truely... a low down dirty shame. I will say "Good Luck", ...as i think your going to need it.

Ry-

[_ Manual _]

Grus, on 19 May 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

..... If this is such a hard thing for you to comprehend I pray you never play Eve...

Instead of retyping... a quick link to what I wrote about how clunky this new system is: https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5751965

To summarize, we can disagree about this, but just because it makes sense to you right away doesn't minimize the issues we have with the new system.

As for "Eve" ... I've been playing that game for several years, and can make millions in profits in single transactions. I can comprehend gaming rule systems quite well. So please lets not compare gaming systems, because I believe (my opinion only) that the company that made Eve, has a better grasp of what makes their system AND their gaming community tick.

Thank you

[Ulric von Eisenberg]

Dee Eight, on 25 April 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

Well I'm sure they've looked at the data they alone have access to, which tells them the actual people complaining...aren't the ones actually contributing in any meaningful fashion to their revenue...and the ones who are in favour of it...ARE the ones keeping the company afloat.

Well as embarrassed as I am to admit it, I've probably spent upward of a couple thousand on this game especially if you include the new computer I built just to play this game. Now I don't even recognize it anymore. I was just short of being a founder because I didn't have the money at time of start up to buy in otherwise I probably would have. Glad now that I didn't. So I've been playing this game from almost day one, and all PGI has ever done is take things away from me that I purchased BECAUSE of what it had. The few positive enhancements they've added quickly get nerfed to uselessness. Seems like they take the wrong turn at almost every intersection. Spent years grinding and perfecting all for naught !!!

Easy fix though... Take away the point limit and if a person wants to spend all his points and XP on one mech let him fill every single slot on the mech. Why shouldn't I be able to specialize in one mech if I choose and max him out to have every conceivable skill slot filled. What because I blow the crap out of everybody who didn't choose too? Too bad you could have specialized like I did but you didn't and now you're scrap metal.

MUHAHA

[Ulric von Eisenberg]

Ovion, on 18 May 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

Honestly - that sounds like a you problem.

simply 'cant be bothered', when it's overall a better system if you just take 10-20 minutes to learn it.

I have 30-40 mechs I use regularly and 224 mechs total.
If you can't be bothered, that's on you not PGI - especially when Skill Tree has been on the cards for years, and clearly, blatantly signposted for 8 months.

Nope not a ME problem a PGI problem, because they're losing their player base and the revenue they need to keep adding these crappy changes. It's not a question of learning it... it's a question of trying to restore my mech to the way it was and I can't. Not for lack of points to spend but for lack of points allowed to put into one mech. So what am I supposed to do with all the experience I had in a mech if it limits me to only using a fraction of a percent of it. A person should be able to fill every slot there is on a mech if they have the experience. I have 237 points to spend but I can only use 91? Dumb.

[Ulric von Eisenberg]

Dee Eight, on 26 April 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

The messy tree as you call it, gives benefits that make for a more well rounded mech. People keep complaining about the hill climb (last pts it was the shock absorbtion which I was looking forwards to myself) or the velocity nodes or torso/arm pitch and so on... and that might be true up until having those nodes saves your bacon in a game...because being able to climb the hill faster got you to the fight to aid the teammate before he died...or the pitch improvement let you actually HIT the locust in your face at waist level of your atlas.

I should still have a clearer CHOICE for that added pitch or not however. It's all about freedom of choice to build the mech we want without having extraneous choices forced on us. Quite frankly more to the point it's the ability to return mechs we have purchased to the operating condition we have become accustomed to, and in my experience with only 91 points that is not possible, or if it is it's a mathematical puzzle I don't care to indulge in.

[Ovion]

Ulric von Eisenberg, on 21 May 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

Nope not a ME problem a PGI problem, because they're losing their player base and the revenue they need to keep adding these crappy changes. It's not a question of learning it... it's a question of trying to restore my mech to the way it was and I can't. Not for lack of points to spend but for lack of points allowed to put into one mech. So what am I supposed to do with all the experience I had in a mech if it limits me to only using a fraction of a percent of it. A person should be able to fill every slot there is on a mech if they have the experience. I have 237 points to spend but I can only use 91? Dumb.

THat's called Balance.

You had dozens and dozens of modules before but could only use 3-5 of them.
Almost all games with skill systems don't allow you *every* single point, to take *every* skill.

Options and balance are good.
MOST people I talk to like Skill Tree, just have problems with the layout / presentation.

That you only need 1 mech now, and that you can incrementally improve it every match is amazing for new players.
I know LOTS of people coming back to the game for that reason alone.

That YOU can't be bothered to learn the system, that has been known about for months/years, is entirely a you problem.
NOT a PGI problem.

That the player numbers have been steadily increasing since the update rather points to that.

[Ulric von Eisenberg]

Ovion, on 21 May 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

THat's called Balance.

You had dozens and dozens of modules before but could only use 3-5 of them.
Almost all games with skill systems don't allow you *every* single point, to take *every* skill.

Options and balance are good.
MOST people I talk to like Skill Tree, just have problems with the layout / presentation.

That you only need 1 mech now, and that you can incrementally improve it every match is amazing for new players.
I know LOTS of people coming back to the game for that reason alone.

That YOU can't be bothered to learn the system, that has been known about for months/years, is entirely a you problem.
NOT a PGI problem.

That the player numbers have been steadily increasing since the update rather points to that.

Ah but I DID learn the system... I learned that it sucked... and from other posts I've seen on here your assumptions is incorrect and the number of players is decreasing... Just saw a post from a guy that can't find any of his "friend or teammates on anymore and it takes forever to put together a PUG match... meaning not enough players to even put a whole match together.

[Ovion]

Ulric von Eisenberg, on 21 May 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

Ah but I DID learn the system... I learned that it sucked... and from other posts I've seen on here your assumptions is incorrect and the number of players is decreasing... Just saw a post from a guy that can't find any of his "friend or teammates on anymore and it takes forever to put together a PUG match... meaning not enough players to even put a whole match together.

It's not an assumption.
Lots of new players coming in.

A lot of the people bitching will come back to it in a day or two I'd bet.

And I'm not making assumptions - I'm looking at ACTUAL numbers.
http://steamcharts.com/app/342200#7d

Additionally, I don't know what your local area is like / what time you're playing in, or what servers you have selected but in the last few days me and my group have been getting pug and group matches almost as soon as wee hit search.

Edited by Ovion, 21 May 2017 - 06:12 PM.

[Sebaztien Hawke]

91 skill points is too few when there are 200+ choices and the ones you need for your build are right at the back. And why does it also cost C-bills to assign skills?

I was enjoying the game a week ago, (and spending money for months as well), but my recent experience has sucked and the mechs I enjoyed using are now poorly performing. I had radar deprivation for all of two days before the new skill tree erased it!

I have just installed MechWarrior 4: mercenaries ... I will play that, the new BattleTech, and hold out for MW5:mercs.

My playtime is too precious to get dicked around and wasted.

[Ovion]

Sebaztien Hawke, on 21 May 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

91 skill points is too few when there are 200+ choices and the ones you need for your build are right at the back. And why does it also cost C-bills to assign skills?

I was enjoying the game a week ago, (and spending money for months as well), but my recent experience has sucked and the mechs I enjoyed using are now poorly performing. I had radar deprivation for all of two days before the new skill tree erased it!

I have just installed MechWarrior 4: mercenaries ... I will play that, the new BattleTech, and hold out for MW5:mercs.

My playtime is too precious to get dicked around and wasted.

You... you are complaining about only having a module for 2 days before the skill tree, when its been screamed from the rafters for months what's happening?

Sounds to me like you didn't read much of the notes / docs / etc....
Maybe you should try reading the patch notes / skill tree, and you'll have seismic back in a few skill points!

[Grus]

Ovion, on 22 May 2017 - 04:53 AM, said:

You... you are complaining about only having a module for 2 days before the skill tree, when its been screamed from the rafters for months what's happening?

Sounds to me like you didn't read much of the notes / docs / etc....
Maybe you should try reading the patch notes / skill tree, and you'll have seismic back in a few skill points!

And not have to burn millions of cbills for that one mod..

[Grus]

I'm starting to think these guys that are having the biggest issues with the skill tree are the same ones that never log into a TS/vent/Discord to talk to other people. Because it took me and one other person playing around in it for 15 minute to get it figured out... it's too easy people.