188 replies to this topic

[Ruar]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 27 April 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

PGI is capitulating to the increase Time To Kill crowd. They don't seem to understand that balancing with nerfs is much more frustrating than balancing with buffs.

If they only buffed then people would be dying in one or two volleys which is not fun. The only way to stop mudflation is to reset what the baseline is supposed to look like. The change to the skill tree does reset that baseline. Then once people adjust they can start adding in selective buffs where needed.

[The Basilisk]

Source Mystic, on 27 April 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

Basically this is real simple I want to know how long you have played mwo and if you will be leaving if the skill tree goes live. That is all.

I feel pgi should see what they are doing and how it will effect them in a concrete way namely how many players they will loose if the ignore their community.

I have been playing almost 3 years and I will be walking away from mwo if this skill tree goes though.

Complete bullsh.. I'm here since closed beta and im effin anticipating the long overdue revamp of the rolewarfare component of MWO that we are waiting fore since CB and that was requested by the community over and over again.

And I have to say...I realy enjoy every single tear, and every bit of rage from those guys that actually think there would be something that is taken away from them in terms of buffs, firepower or optimization potential.

Its time things get mixed up a bit.

Sure there will be a lot of tuning going on.
Especially with the new weapons and equipment that is around the corner.
So do what every real warrior does: Observe, evaluate, adapt, repeat.

Edited by The Basilisk, 27 April 2017 - 01:12 PM.

[Taxxian]

I play for 4 years now.

The refund is more than generous.
The game will be slower, thats ok.
There are some balancing issues, but that is impossible to prevent.

The new stuff will motivate me, never had the idea of quitting.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Ruar, on 27 April 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

If they only buffed then people would be dying in one or two volleys which is not fun. The only way to stop mudflation is to reset what the baseline is supposed to look like. The change to the skill tree does reset that baseline. Then once people adjust they can start adding in selective buffs where needed.

Buffing includes armor and structure values.

There was no need to bring the maximum cooldown bonus from 17% (fast fire and CD module) to 7.7/9.9%.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 27 April 2017 - 01:07 PM.

[Mycroft000]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 27 April 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

Buffing includes armor and structure values.

There was no need to bring the maximum cooldown bonus from 17% (fast fire and CD module) to 7.7/9.9%.

Then us "Loreheads" would complain.

[Ruar]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 27 April 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

Buffing includes armor and structure values.

They already do that with quirks. Most of the armor and structure values are from the board game though so it's hard to just change them outright. Especially when the real problem is adding in new mechs with more power when compared to the earlier releases. There is also a big issue with poor translation from table top to 3D computer sim.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

mycroft000, on 27 April 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

Then us "Loreheads" would complain.

Quirks are already in place, no new mechanics are needed. I'm a lorehead too.

Ruar, on 27 April 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

They already do that with quirks. Most of the armor and structure values are from the board game though so it's hard to just change them outright. Especially when the real problem is adding in new mechs with more power when compared to the earlier releases. There is also a big issue with poor translation from table top to 3D computer sim.

I understand plenty about TT and its differences, you don't need to explain it to me.

I honestly think they should go into the damn weapon tree, and at the very least, if nothing else, double the values of all the weapon nodes.

[Ruar]

As for bonuses being reduced the change to heat management is big, can you think of an easier way to force people to reduce their alpha builds? It's a brilliant bit of heat manipulation that has massive effects across the board while at the same time avoiding changing every weapon system in game like ghost heat does.

Edited by Ruar, 27 April 2017 - 01:23 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

4ish years , no I welcome the new skill tree menu.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Ruar, on 27 April 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

As for the cool down bonus being reduced, can you think of an easier way to force people to reduce their alpha builds? it's a brilliant bit of heat manipulation that has massive effects across the board while at the same time avoiding changing every weapon system in game like ghost heat does.

Cooldowns? Aaaas in the length of time it takes for a weapon to reload? Uhm... lengthening cooldowns won't do ANYTHING to cause people to cut down on their alpha strikes. Increasing the heat MIGHT for energy based alphas, but CDs won't do anything.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 27 April 2017 - 01:21 PM.

[Ruar]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 27 April 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Cooldowns? Aaaas in the length of time it takes for a weapon to reload? Uhm... lengthening cooldowns won't do ANYTHING to cause people to cut down on their alpha strikes. Increasing the heat MIGHT for energy based alphas, but CDs won't do anything.

In this case cool down was meant in relation to heat, not weapon refire rate. I'll edit to clarify.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

The Basilisk, on 27 April 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

So do what every real warrior does: Observe, evaluate, adapt, repeat.

Go beat your chest somewheres else.

[L1f3H4ck]

Got this spiffy golden banner under my name, so you know how long I've been playing. And I can't wait for the new skill tree to drop in May. Why would I walk away now?

Um, farewell OP I guess.

Edited by Frechdachs, 27 April 2017 - 02:37 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

been here for a wail,

will i keep playing? yes i will,

do i think the Skill Tree is Perfect? no i dont, but its a good first Step,

we all have a right to decide if we want to play, but personally i think PGI has done well this past year,

[oldradagast]

I've been playing a bit over 4 years, and I've spent some money on the game (probably about $150 to $200)

Assuming it is deployed as shown, I may continue to play, or maybe not. Even if I do, I probably won't be playing as much anymore. Many of my mechs are not meta, so they will be utterly wrecked by the quirk removal. I also like brawling, which means the engine decoupling will punish me for daring to put in a large engine and try to do something other than snipe people at max range. Finally, the sheer tedium of the skill maze combined with its hostile user interface will just discourage me from even bothering. I'll probably wait until the 1 or 2 viable skill maze builds are posted, and just copy-paste that build onto everything. It's just not worth the time to "customize" minutia in that crap system.

I am interested in new tech, but I strongly suspect it'll trash whatever balance survives the skill maze and engine decoupling, and I have no faith in PGI being able to understand or fix that. I also bet they'll perform a massive overhaul of the skill maze system some time after new tech goes live to "balance" it, forcing even more regrinds and burning away most of the free skill points people got from their modules. Crafty, but sleazy.

Oh, as for money, no. I'm done spending money on this game, barring a miraculous change in what's to come and how PGI works with their customers.

[shameless]

How long have I been here? Between my badge and my remembering watching "Dragon Bowling" in game, as well as engine breaking Commandos, it's safe to say I've been here a very long time.

Am I a whale? 282 mechs, with 85% mastered, as well as 2 grand in the game would generally point to yes.

Do I like this new skill tree? Not really. across the board nerfs, engine decoupling, and the forced taking of minimally useful skills to get even close to what my mechs currently do is pretty annoying. I have 3 builds on the test server, ecm, non ecm, and sniper build. Every mech, no variation, because of forced nodes.

Thoughts on the refund? Either give me a full cbill refund on my Billion+ cbills in modules, or at the very lest give me the chance to exchange the gsp you're forcing on me for cbills. Refitting all IS mechs with Light fusion engines is gonna be very expensive.

Will I leave if the tree goes in as is? No

Will I play less? Definitely.

Will I tinker less? Definitely.

Will I keep spending money? No. Already prepared to get a refund on all Civil War ultimate packs if this goes in as is.

Will the game be as fun as it is now? No, too much accounting.

Edited by shameless, 27 April 2017 - 03:15 PM.

[Arianrhod]

I've been playing for over a year and a half, actually coming up on two years now. I will not quit. In fact I'm looking forward to the skill tree release.

There will be problems, but they will be fixed in time, and PGI has been showing us that they Do respond to player feedback. So what reason is there to quit, if you actually enjoy the game?

[oldradagast]

Arianrhod, on 27 April 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

There will be problems, but they will be fixed in time, and PGI has been showing us that they Do respond to player feedback. So what reason is there to quit, if you actually enjoy the game?

I strongly disagree with that statement. if they cared about player feedback, they would have actually fixed the serious problems with the skill maze - problems we've been telling them about for months now. Instead, they just offer us a bigger refund on the trash they are serving and call it a day.

[Arianrhod]

oldradagast, on 27 April 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

I strongly disagree with that statement. if they cared about player feedback, they would have actually fixed the serious problems with the skill maze - problems we've been telling them about for months now. Instead, they just offer us a bigger refund on the trash they are serving and call it a day.

The refund was the biggest issue in the last PTS forum. It was the single most complained about thing. They fixed it. In my opinion, they fixed it completely, although I can understand why some elite players are upset about the GSP thing—I suggest that PGI just implement an option to receive the refund either in GSP or c-bills.

The maze is flawed, but PGI has made signficant improvements in terms of the maze actually being useful in making players prioritize what they want to take or not. I'll admit I hate some things about it. For example, SRM high explosive in the way of global weapon range is plainly and obviously ********. Furthermore the ECM nerf is completely unwarranted and I might just as well not take ECM and put the nodes into getting the radar dep. But I'd like to reiterate that it got way, way better than it was in Skill Tree PTS 1, and I think that it will continue to be improved.

Here's how else I know that PGI listens to us:
-Energy draw scrapped outright after forums explained to them what a terrible idea it was.
-IS heroes wave 2 buffed pre-release after forum whining.
-Clan heroes wave 2 nerfed pre-release after forum whining, + announcement of new variants to reduce pay-to-win aspect.
-Delaying Skill Tree in the first place—Skill Tree PTS #2 is actually the third PTS build we've been allowed to see, and technically speaking skill tree was supposed to have been release by now—they smartly opted to reevaluate it with our feedback.
-Consolation prize after Incursion/Roughneck release event stupidity.
And I respect all that. Yeah, Russ says stupid things, but the game isn't bad because Russ says stupid things.

Therefore, there's absolutely no reason to quit, just because skill tree release might be rocky at the beginning. TBH I'm a lot more pissed about batteries in Incursion and the existence of Escort in general then I ever will be about some of the arbitrary measures in the skill tree maze.

[L1f3H4ck]

Oh, as for spending money, all 4 civil war ultimate packs are already pre-ordered, Javelin too.