62 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

so clans have 100%? well how does the system work? the system does +3.3% per win right?

now lets imagine clans would win 55% of it's games. and lets say we have 20 games running at the same time (could be more)

then clans win 11 games and Is only 9 this means the bar already shifts by 6.6 % in favor of the clans, now you can estimate (or calculate) after how many games the clans go to own 100% In fact not many.

So just because you see such huge 100% doesn't means the clans are winning everything.
It is a kind of weakness in the system and how it handles wins and losses towards palnetary ownership..

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 May 2017 - 09:12 AM.

[Shadowomega1]

Aye, you actually need to look at the planet event history to get an idea of how things are going. However with the number of games happening at the same time it fills up fast.

[Lily from animove]

Shadowomega1, on 06 May 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

Aye, you actually need to look at the planet event history to get an idea of how things are going. However with the number of games happening at the same time it fills up fast.

it just makes a very bad psychological impression of the IS totally sucking the previous mode kinda was better in the visualisation.

[MischiefSC]

No, it's about a 55/45split. That's been consistent after the first 6 hours. That's a 10% swing, which is significant.

There's as lot of great players on both sides this time. Nothing is ghosting as far as I can tell. Yes, there's probably more vet players on Clan side but thats no coincidence. They're following the advantage.

Yes, balance is about as close as it's ever been but it's always been off. That's not saying it's balanced - just that it's been worse.

[Snowbluff]

MischiefSC, on 06 May 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

No, it's about a 55/45split. That's been consistent after the first 6 hours. That's a 10% swing, which is significant.

There's as lot of great players on both sides this time. Nothing is ghosting as far as I can tell. Yes, there's probably more vet players on Clan side but thats no coincidence. They're following the advantage.

Yes, balance is about as close as it's ever been but it's always been off. That's not saying it's balanced - just that it's been worse.

Yeah just a little bit of imbalance will have a large effect.

1) Comps will choose an easier faction to set up (clans have a wider variety of better mechs, and omnipods)
2) Clan mechs are better, so that will affect the win rate a bit as well.

Personally I don't think it's as bad as people think, but also there is a bit of imbalance and IS quirks need to be looked at across the board once the skill tree hit... and the new tech... dammit. We're in balance limbo at least those things are fixed.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Problem is, clans already have a tech advantage. When clan groups pushed it to 100% in the first couple hours, they guaranteed that just about every fight would be Siege with IS attacking and clans defending. That means that even in the very best scenario for IS (IS 12-man vs. clan pug), IS has an uphill battle to fight--their ideal comp is 2x Battlemaster 2c per person.. with two mediocre-to-**** 'mechs, and most people won't pull that outside of organized groups of veteran players. When it's pug vs. pug or IS pug vs. clan group, there's no hope in hell.

I'm seeing Victors and **** trying to break through defensive firing lines of PPFLD Night Gyrs and Kodiaks. And that's the pug vs. pug matches. Good ******* luck justifying that as balanced.

[Leone]

You do realize that the IS tech advantage lies in brawling right? To which end being stuck on Invasion mode should cater to their advantages since they don't hafta worry bout being stuck on Alpine Peaks or Polar Highlands.

~Leone.

[Wattila]

Leone, on 06 May 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

You do realize that the IS tech advantage lies in brawling right? To which end being stuck on Invasion mode should cater to their advantages since they don't hafta worry bout being stuck on Alpine Peaks or Polar Highlands.

~Leone.

You mean the advantage of having heavier brawling weapons, less firepower and durability across the line? Look at how scouting matches are going and you have your answer. It's almost as ******** as the argument that balance is fine because the most stupidly overquirked (or maybe the rest are just underquirked) IS 85 ton assault can almost fight clan heavies at a parity.

Edited by Wattila, 06 May 2017 - 11:38 AM.

[FallingAce]

Lily from animove, on 06 May 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

so clans have 100%? well how does the system work? the system does +3.3% per win right?

No

https://mwomercs.com...nts?t=201705tuk "The standard Tug Of War system is in place. However, during this Tukayyid event the Capture Threshold is set at just one point of progress for either Faction."

Alexander of Macedon, on 06 May 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

Problem is, clans already have a tech advantage. When clan groups pushed it to 100% in the first couple hours, they guaranteed that just about every fight would be Siege with IS attacking and clans defending.

NO

2 siege matches last night, both times I.S. were on defense.


I don't know why everyone is hung up on the Battlemaster 2c. It may be good on quickplay maps, but it's a bad choice for siege.

Leone, on 06 May 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

You do realize that the IS tech advantage lies in brawling right? To which end being stuck on Invasion siege mode should cater to their advantages since they don't hafta worry bout being stuck on Alpine Peaks or Polar Highlands.

~Leone.

FTFY

YES

+20 tons on siege maps is actually a pretty fair fight.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Yep. Just had a pug vs. pug where we were defending on Siege. The clan puggers literally ran in one at a time and died, and half their 'mechs were LRM5 Mad Dogs that sat outside the gate and blind-fired on other people's locks.

We won 48-35.

So just about every situational advantage possible (defending on Siege, decently well-coordinated defense vs. uncoordinated pugs coming in as individuals, &c.) and we barely scraped out a win. If they'd pushed together, not reinforced singly throughout the match? We might well have lost.

And most matches aren't that. Most matches are IS pugs trying to push into clan group drops through 800m+ range crossfire.

[Mcgral18]

Leone, on 06 May 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

You do realize that the IS tech advantage lies in brawling right? To which end being stuck on Invasion mode should cater to their advantages since they don't hafta worry bout being stuck on Alpine Peaks or Polar Highlands.

~Leone.

Clams have the best brawlers in the game, FYI

They also have some of the best long range, but at the extreme range it can become debatable (1100+M)

Sphere has the Mid Range, with isLPLs
That's...about it.

[Vxheous]

Alexander of Macedon, on 06 May 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

Problem is, clans already have a tech advantage. When clan groups pushed it to 100% in the first couple hours, they guaranteed that just about every fight would be Siege with IS attacking and clans defending. That means that even in the very best scenario for IS (IS 12-man vs. clan pug), IS has an uphill battle to fight--their ideal comp is 2x Battlemaster 2c per person.. with two mediocre-to-**** 'mechs, and most people won't pull that outside of organized groups of veteran players. When it's pug vs. pug or IS pug vs. clan group, there's no hope in hell.

I'm seeing Victors and **** trying to break through defensive firing lines of PPFLD Night Gyrs and Kodiaks. And that's the pug vs. pug matches. Good ******* luck justifying that as balanced.

Regardless of who pushes the bar to Siege, it's not set that one side is always defender and one side is always attacker. Your assumption that with the bar pushed all the way to clan side meant that clan always defends siege is wrong.

[Novakaine]

For Lily and the rest of the clan apologist.
I can imagine PGI reading the forums.
Yeah I know but I can imagine.
"Hmm...... IS blah, IS blah, IS blah blah oooooooh here's a Clan post."
"Hey Russ a very positive clan player post saying there's no balance problems."
"It said IS players as a whole just plain suck."
"But the IS is winning the scouting war."
"See as I have said office minion the IS players live on Cheapskate Island."
"Prepare my Nerf Hammer those Griffins are just too dangerous."
So clan apologists.......

Edited by Novakaine, 06 May 2017 - 12:24 PM.

[Valhallan]

MischiefSC, on 06 May 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

No, it's about a 55/45split. That's been consistent after the first 6 hours. That's a 10% swing, which is significant.

If you are referring to the faction score leaderboards, Ima point out that according to the rules scouting score is also rolled in there.

• Faction Leaderboards are Ranked by Total Faction Player Victories.

(total victories not invasion victories) Scouting is more "fair" (imo), and would have larger impact on scoring due to the quicker nature of matches. It would be interesting to see if that ratio remains true (I REALLY doubt it) if PGI broke down the scoring to show only invasion and only scouting.

[Acehilator]

MischiefSC, on 06 May 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

No, it's about a 55/45split. That's been consistent after the first 6 hours. That's a 10% swing, which is significant.

There's as lot of great players on both sides this time. Nothing is ghosting as far as I can tell. Yes, there's probably more vet players on Clan side but thats no coincidence. They're following the advantage.

Yes, balance is about as close as it's ever been but it's always been off. That's not saying it's balanced - just that it's been worse.

It is not. Back before Black Knights and Warhammers recived two nerfs in a row and could fight Timbers as equals, that was by far the best balance has ever been. They almost had it right, and then they had to ruin it. PGI going full PGI, and they haven't stopped since.

[Vxheous]

Valhallan, on 06 May 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

If you are referring to the faction score leaderboards, Ima point out that according to the rules scouting score is also rolled in there.

• Faction Leaderboards are Ranked by Total Faction Player Victories.

(total victories not invasion victories) Scouting is more "fair" (imo), and would have larger impact on scoring due to the quicker nature of matches. It would be interesting to see if that ratio remains true (I REALLY doubt it) if PGI broke down the scoring to show only invasion and only scouting.

I suspect the ratio to be pretty close. Keep in mind that IS can bring an extra 20 tons per person into Invasion. Those players that win in scouting will also typically win in invasion, while those that lose at scouting will also typically lose ay invasion. The only real difference is you can get away more with bringing a derpy mech to scouting than bringing a derpy mech to invasion.

Half the battle of invasion is having multiple dropdecks set up for multiple ranges/conditions based on map. Many players that do not routinely play Invasion do not have such decks set up (yes there are jack of all trades decks, butvmore often than not, they will lose out to a specialized deck based on map)

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 06 May 2017 - 01:25 PM.

[naterist]

OP, i they said they changed it so that each battle is 1 percent movement

[Lupis Volk]

Novakaine, on 06 May 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

For Lily and the rest of the clan apologist.
I can imagine PGI reading the forums.
Yeah I know but I can imagine.
"Hmm...... IS blah, IS blah, IS blah blah oooooooh here's a Clan post."
"Hey Russ a very positive clan player post saying there's no balance problems."
"It said IS players as a whole just plain suck."
"But the IS is winning the scouting war."
"See as I have said office minion the IS players live on Cheapskate Island."
"Prepare my Nerf Hammer those Griffins are just too dangerous."
So clan apologists.......

To all IS cry babies i think your in a dire need of some gitting gud, Davions and lurms aren't the way to victory and neither is crying on the sideline, adapt and overcome.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 06 May 2017 - 01:43 PM.

[Jman5]

Acehilator, on 06 May 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

It is not. Back before Black Knights and Warhammers recived two nerfs in a row and could fight Timbers as equals, that was by far the best balance has ever been. They almost had it right, and then they had to ruin it. PGI going full PGI, and they haven't stopped since.

Because PGI balances Inner Sphere to be balanced against other Inner Sphere mechs.

Firestarter has the same problem.

[627]

Lily from animove, on 06 May 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

so clans have 100%? well how does the system work? the system does +3.3% per win right?

now lets imagine clans would win 55% of it's games. and lets say we have 20 games running at the same time (could be more)

then clans win 11 games and Is only 9 this means the bar already shifts by 6.6 % in favor of the clans, now you can estimate (or calculate) after how many games the clans go to own 100% In fact not many.

So just because you see such huge 100% doesn't means the clans are winning everything.
It is a kind of weakness in the system and how it handles wins and losses towards palnetary ownership..

What exactly are you trying to say here? That IS is the moral winner? That the IS will Hillary this home?

Inner sphere sucks and loses baaaaddd. but at least you're doin not *that* bad?