330 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 May 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

If all IS mechs had quirks baked in when they mounted iXLs to give their sides extensive defensive buffs (armor/internals equal to the CT) then sure, that would be great, but until then we have a bunch of haphazard and non-uniform quirks that miss the mark on a whole lot of mechs.

What I'm suggesting is that mechs that need it get large defensive boosts (or extremely large offensive buffs that make up for it and create glass cannon options). All mechs should be setup at uniform levels of effectiveness, though I don't think they should all be the same, if only to give mechs their own flavors and to give factions many options for different situations.

I even pointed out how bad the current quirk system is with the Oxide vs Firestarter comparison in that the Firestarter is worse at everything but the Oxide has better quirks.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dakota1000, on 11 May 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

What I'm suggesting is that mechs that need it get large defensive boosts (or extremely large offensive buffs that make up for it and create glass cannon options). All mechs should be setup at uniform levels of effectiveness, though I don't think they should all be the same, if only to give mechs their own flavors and to give factions many options for different situations.

I even pointed out how bad the current quirk system is with the Oxide vs Firestarter comparison in that the Firestarter is worse at everything but the Oxide has better quirks.

Then we are in agreement except about how to go about doing uniform "quirks" I suppose (quirks are bad because the power of the buff is dependent on the engine).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 11 May 2017 - 11:16 AM.

[Templar Dane]

Zergling, on 11 May 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

The only time duration comes into play in a BLR-2C vs MADIIC comparison is if the BLR-2C is alpha striking, which drastically lowers the sustained DPS output of the BLR.

Duration always matters. Your target may be twisting, it may be going back into cover, it may be a fast light zooming around, it may be a poptart that's only exposed for a short time. You may only get half a second to shoot the component you want before it's gone behind cover. Shorter durations also help you to be in cover sooner or help you to not be spotted by the enemy.

How often is an opponent that stares you down on a featureless map going to come into play?

Zergling, on 11 May 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

I'm not aware of saying anything was overpowered in this discussion.

You are in a thread, created by whiners who think they are losing this event because clan OP. Arguing that IS has no advantage.

Zergling, on 11 May 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

It is rather poor form to accuse others of something you have been doing yourself.

I am arguing that IS has some major advantages and that they are losing because of a higher concentration of units. I move around a lot in FP and I'd rather not see another season of play go by with clan mechs being practically unplayable.

I'm also arguing against the skill tree. Things are balanced in general right now and the skill tree + any potential nerfs due to kneejerk reactions like what happened with Tuk1 will ruin balance.

Zergling, on 11 May 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Funny, I only said the Clan player will hit the side torso 100% of the time with their full burn when they have similar or lesser beam duration than the IS player, but what does context matter?

And why exactly is it unfair to assume the Clan player can't hit a giant ST hitbox 100% of the time, when it is somehow fair to assume the IS player can hit a similarly large (or even smaller!) CT hitbox 100% of the time?

The duration of ISLPL is nearly half the duration of CLPL/CERML. It is literally nearly twice as easy to get a full burn on the component you want.



Battlemaster is such an easier target to hit.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 May 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

Then we are in agreement except about how to go about doing uniform "quirks" I suppose (quirks are bad because the power of the buff is dependent on the engine).

I say to base the quirks as if it was an XL engine so that anyone using a standard would be even more tanky as a result.

That and give standard engines a large structure boost to any mech who brings one.


We may have different views on how balanced IS vs Clan is right now, but we are both in agreement that the game itself isn't balanced and likely have some similar ideas on balancing it. I just want people to stop fighting over the IS vs Clan part and see that even IS vs IS its horribly unbalanced and that bad mechs *need* quirks. Just look at the proposed skill tree quirk changes that weakens many bad mechs further.

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

You are in a thread, created by whiners who think they are losing this event because clan OP. Arguing that IS has no advantage.

But I created this thread.

Edited by Dakota1000, 11 May 2017 - 11:25 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dakota1000, on 11 May 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

I just want people to stop fighting over the IS vs Clan part and see that even IS vs IS its horribly unbalanced and that bad mechs *need* quirks.

Both sides have always been in agreement about that, the power gap between haves and have nots has always been worse on the IS side.

[Templar Dane]

Dakota1000, on 11 May 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

But I created this thread.

lol I forgot which thread I was in, THERE ARE SO MANY

[Zergling]

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Duration always matters. Your target may be twisting, it may be going back into cover, it may be a fast light zooming around, it may be a poptart that's only exposed for a short time. You may only get half a second to shoot the component you want before it's gone behind cover. Shorter durations also help you to be in cover sooner or help you to not be spotted by the enemy.

If the IS mech gets a shot opportunity of 0.67 seconds and dumps three large pulse lasers into the target, it does 33 damage.
If the Clan mech gets the same 0.67 second shot opportunity and dumps its alpha into the target, it does 40 damage.

The only advantage IS has in such a snap shot situation is heat efficiency.

An IS mech with more than 3 large pulse has the option of sacrificing that heat efficiency for more damage, but either way the options aren't exactly superior to Clan, as they both have trade-offs.
They aren't entirely inferior either, just not strictly superior either.

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

How often is an opponent that stares you down on a featureless map going to come into play?

I never said they'd 'stare', only that the mechs would fire an optimal amount of time at the other before twisting to spread further damage.

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

You are in a thread, created by whiners who think they are losing this event because clan OP. Arguing that IS has no advantage.

Just because I'm arguing against you, doesn't mean I hold the position that Clans are horribly OP.

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

I am arguing that IS has some major advantages and that they are losing because of a higher concentration of units. I move around a lot in FP and I'd rather not see another season of play go by with clan mechs being practically unplayable.

See, my opinion is that there is a difference in power between IS and Clan, but it isn't as large a difference as this Tukayyid event makes it appear to be.
This is because the difference in power has been amplified greatly by skill stack, thanks to competitive players (who are naturally higher in skill than more casual players) seeking any advantage they can get and going Clan.

IMO, Inner Sphere mechs certainly do have some advantages in certain specific situations, but the overall advantage is still in favor of Clans.

The posts I've been making in this thread and others are to disprove some certain false notions people hold about the IS vs Clan balance (eg, heat and damage/tick), and show just where some advantage and disadvantages between the factions lie.

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

I'm also arguing against the skill tree. Things are balanced in general right now and the skill tree + any potential nerfs due to kneejerk reactions like what happened with Tuk1 will ruin balance.

I'd prefer a deeper balance overhaul, instead of the constant band-aid fixes that never achieve a good level of balance.

Eg, make IS XL survive side torso loss like Clan XL, then remove most durability quirks (and probably some other quirks too) from IS mechs.
Game ends up simpler to balance because the two factions are closer in base tech.

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Battlemaster is such an easier target to hit.

The Marauder IIC's profile is much more optimised for a frontal engagement, while the Battlemaster's is more suited to torso twisting.

When the BLR is facing the MADIIC, it has a definite disadvantage; the BLR will have to time its unshielding twists to when the MADIIC's weapons are on cooldown.


EDIT: also, apologies for getting snarky, I blame it on tiredness. Calmed down now, and going to get some sleep.

Edited by Zergling, 11 May 2017 - 11:57 AM.

[Grus]

Kiran Yagami, on 06 May 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

Right, you mean after you kill both side torso or a CT? Because IS mechs fall over with just 1 side torso unless they're std. engine, in which case they have no guns.

if you don't like taking a XL then don't use one. It's not like your dropdecks lack tonnage to support that type of play.

[Templar Dane]

Zergling, on 11 May 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

If the IS mech gets a shot opportunity of 0.67 seconds and dumps three large pulse lasers into the target, it does 33 damage.
If the Clan mech gets the same 0.67 second shot opportunity and dumps its alpha into the target, it does 40 damage.

The only advantage IS has in such a snap shot situation is heat efficiency.

Okay so the clan mech fires 56 heat worth of weapons. Why not have that IS mech fire 5x ISLPL which is the same amount of heat for 55 damage vs clan 40 damage?

Zergling, on 11 May 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

An IS mech with more than 3 large pulse has the option of sacrificing that heat efficiency for more damage, but either way the options aren't exactly superior to Clan, as they both have trade-offs.
They aren't entirely inferior either, just not strictly superior either.

In it's range bracket there is no better weapon than the ISLPL. 3 of them acts like a hitscan AC33 @ 21 tons. There's a reason it's an extremely popular weapon.

Zergling, on 11 May 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Just because I'm arguing against you, doesn't mean I hold the position that Clans are horribly OP.

The only IS/clan imbalance I think is obvious is the smaller lasers. ISSLP/ISSL are kinda of on the crappy side. All of them have fairly short durations to start with so it doesn't make much of a difference that IS are shorter.

General balance, autocannons of all types are kind of rubbish. They lose out at the PPFLD department by PPC/gauss and require more skill to aim than lasers. Their niche of sustained dps is pretty much a bad idea in a game with perfect convergence.

Zergling, on 11 May 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

See, my opinion is that there is a difference in power between IS and Clan, but it isn't as large a difference as this Tukayyid event makes it appear to be.
This is because the difference in power has been amplified greatly by skill stack, thanks to competitive players (who are naturally higher in skill than more casual players) seeking any advantage they can get and going Clan.

IMO, Inner Sphere mechs certainly do have some advantages in certain specific situations, but the overall advantage is still in favor of Clans.

The posts I've been making in this thread and others are to disprove some certain false notions people hold about the IS vs Clan balance (eg, heat and damage/tick), and show just where some advantage and disadvantages between the factions lie.





I'd prefer a deeper balance overhaul, instead of the constant band-aid fixes that never achieve a good level of balance.

Eg, make IS XL survive side torso loss like Clan XL, then remove most durability quirks (and probably some other quirks too) from IS mechs.
Game ends up simpler to balance because the two factions are closer in base tech.





The Marauder IIC's profile is much more optimised for a frontal engagement, while the Battlemaster's is more suited to torso twisting.

When the BLR is facing the MADIIC, it has a definite disadvantage; the BLR will have to time its unshielding twists to when the MADIIC's weapons are on cooldown.


EDIT: also, apologies for getting snarky, I blame it on tiredness. Calmed down now, and going to get some sleep.

The XL issue is balanced by clan spreading damage more etc etc etc

even then, losing a ST on a clan mech is often the point you die anyway. Like an EBJ losing its primary side, or a hellbringer losing it's left torso.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

even then, losing a ST on a clan mech is often the point you die anyway.

Only if it is asym, which it shouldn't. The Marauder IIC is notorious for sponging damage if you can control which side they are shooting similar to the Stalker because of the stupid 60% damage reduction when shooting dead hitboxes.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 11 May 2017 - 12:51 PM.

[Deathlike]

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

It's like the old stalker vs awesome issue. Even post quirk the geometry, high mounts and flexible builds make the stalker the better choice. The awesome NEEDS quirks.

The issue was different then... mainly because it was IS balance amongst itself, not IS vs Clan.

Awesomes could kinda use XL (particularly the 9M, people have heard Pretty Babies crying oh so quietly in their mechbays) due to hitboxes... and it's not really a thing nowadays due to the current hitboxes (still pretty easy to core CT, but the side hitboxes are much easier to get at).

I would actually say that Stalkers need better quirks nowadays.

Quote

KDK-3 being used too much. Better nerf all of the kodiaks AND UAC10s AAAAAAAAND all other UACs......just to be sure nobody would ever be caught using them. **** dude, my shadowhawk got nerfed because of the KDK3.....how much sense does that make?

Kodiak-3 never needed quirks before its debut. That's the difference. The Shadowhawk didn't get any quirks when it first started, but totally became less relevant as quirks to other mechs totally overshadowed the Shadowhawk.

Quote

Clans(who got a big influx of units at the beginning of the event) are winning by 5%. Better make a list of all the usable clan mechs/weapons and get PGI to nerf them because they killed my LRM/machine gun centurion with 35 back armor. How dare someone put PPCs on a summoner (a 70 ton mech with the pod space of a medium) and poptart with it.

Uh... because PPCs on Summoners are still good?

How about buffing IS mechs so that they don't just become forgotten? I mean, there's a lot more usable Clan mech choices than IS mech choices (it's not even close, despite the obvious disparity in the # of mechs released).

Edited by Deathlike, 11 May 2017 - 02:20 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

The XL issue is balanced by clan spreading damage more etc etc etc

I want to point out there is sort of a problem with this line of thinking and is easily disproved by Clan dakka before they nerfed jam times. Just because they spread damage doesn't necessarily mean they are less effective. It is only less effective if they aren't able to do more volume of damage WITH the spread which Clan dakka WAS able to do before it got nerfed which is why despite the fact that iACs were PPFLD, anyone with a brain would rather take Clan dakka because it simply had enough extra volume of damage that allowed it to overcome the fact it can spread that damage.

[Deathlike]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 May 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

I want to point out there is sort of a problem with this line of thinking and is easily disproved by Clan dakka before they nerfed jam times. Just because they spread damage doesn't necessarily mean they are less effective. It is only less effective if they aren't able to do more volume of damage WITH the spread which Clan dakka WAS able to do before it got nerfed which is why despite the fact that iACs were PPFLD, anyone with a brain would rather take Clan dakka because it simply had enough extra volume of damage that allowed it to overcome the fact it can spread that damage.

Wrong thread bro.





The devil's in the details, but some people don't want to acknowledge them.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Deathlike, on 11 May 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

The issue was different then... mainly because it was IS balance amongst itself, not IS vs Clan.

Awesomes could kinda use XL (particularly the 9M, people have heard Pretty Babies crying oh so quietly in their mechbays) due to hitboxes... and it's not really a thing nowadays due to the current hitboxes (still pretty easy to core CT, but the side hitboxes are much easier to get at).

I would actually say that Stalkers need better quirks nowadays.

The issue's the same as it has always been, bad mechs aren't as good as good mechs. Bad mechs need quirks to make up for the difference, PGI has been failing to properly dispense with said quirks. We need more talk of it and focus as a forum on buffing these mechs. Talk for weeks on end about buffing a mech, come up with plans, send messages to the devs, ask for buffs to a certain mech and events to go with it to see how it does before or after the buff. Just something instead of this petty IS vs Clan fight that's been going on since FW started.

Deathlike, on 11 May 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

Kodiak-3 never needed quirks before its debut. That's the difference. The Shadowhawk didn't get any quirks when it first started, but totally became less relevant as quirks to other mechs totally overshadowed the Shadowhawk.

Shadowhawk started out as a great mech, high hardpoints, good engine cap, shield arms, decent number of hardpoints, many configurations. For that reason it became a forgotten mech of the meta until the meta moved on. It still has a variant with 25% ballistic cooldown and 3 ballistic hardpoints backed up with 3 missile and 1 energy. They also all come with some defensive quirks all over.

Really the Shadow Hawk doesn't really need help, its quite a common pick in scouting mode to this day due to its powerful brawling loadouts actually.

Compare it instead to the Wolverine 6K. It had a short lived life as a Faction Play meta mech due to its high quirks. Now they've been rolled back and the Wolverine is left with what it once was, a 55 ton walking billboard with low mounted arm guns.

Deathlike, on 11 May 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

Uh... because PPCs on Summoners are still good?

How about buffing IS mechs so that they don't just become forgotten? I mean, there's a lot more usable Clan mech choices than IS mech choices (it's not even close, despite the obvious disparity in the # of mechs released).

Why buff *just* IS mechs anyway? Why stop there? Why not buff *all* bad mechs?

We don't even need to start with clan mechs, it should start with IS, the faction with the higher number of bad mechs, then move on to going back and fourth once its more equal. There really shouldn't be bad mechs if we intend to balance the game. Each should have its purpose and its strengths.

[Deathlike]

Dakota1000, on 11 May 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

The issue's the same as it has always been, bad mechs aren't as good as good mechs. Bad mechs need quirks to make up for the difference, PGI has been failing to properly dispense with said quirks. We need more talk of it and focus as a forum on buffing these mechs. Talk for weeks on end about buffing a mech, come up with plans, send messages to the devs, ask for buffs to a certain mech and events to go with it to see how it does before or after the buff. Just something instead of this petty IS vs Clan fight that's been going on since FW started.

We talk about it at times... like the Mist Lynx or the Vindicator... but that falls on deaf ears. As far as I'm concerned, it always reads as TL;DR to PGI.

Quote

Shadowhawk started out as a great mech, high hardpoints, good engine cap, shield arms, decent number of hardpoints, many configurations. For that reason it became a forgotten mech of the meta until the meta moved on. It still has a variant with 25% ballistic cooldown and 3 ballistic hardpoints backed up with 3 missile and 1 energy. They also all come with some defensive quirks all over.

Really the Shadow Hawk doesn't really need help, its quite a common pick in scouting mode to this day due to its powerful brawling loadouts actually.

Compare it instead to the Wolverine 6K. It had a short lived life as a Faction Play meta mech due to its high quirks. Now they've been rolled back and the Wolverine is left with what it once was, a 55 ton walking billboard with low mounted arm guns.

It's not exactly a meta thing where it is that PGI forgets that the standard bearer isn't always the standard bearer post quirks. This is why mechs like the Jenner or Firestarter (especially post-upscaling) have not been good options as they used to be respectively good "once upon a time", but fallen by the wayside due to obvious changes in the environment.

Wolverine-6K used to be a great gimmick build (kinda like the Dragon-1N with all teh dakka), but nerfs removed them from consideration (and it wasn't like they were OP because it doesn't take much to remove their weaknesses, despite certain Clammers that whined and apparently didn't know how to counter them properly).

Quote

Why buff *just* IS mechs anyway? Why stop there? Why not buff *all* bad mechs?

We don't even need to start with clan mechs, it should start with IS, the faction with the higher number of bad mechs, then move on to going back and fourth once its more equal. There really shouldn't be bad mechs if we intend to balance the game. Each should have its purpose and its strengths.

Most of the mechs that need buffing are IS. There are some sad Clan mechs (Scat, Mist Lynx, Executioner) but honestly at this point, it's whether or not PGI has an effing clue.

That's why I state the way things are relative to PGI. It doesn't matter either way when you don't actually understand your telemetry.

[Zergling]

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Okay so the clan mech fires 56 heat worth of weapons. Why not have that IS mech fire 5x ISLPL which is the same amount of heat for 55 damage vs clan 40 damage?

Yeah, in that short shot window, the LPL is superior. In anything longer though, the Clan laser vomit wins out, as its damage increases to 68 with a full burn.

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

In it's range bracket there is no better weapon than the ISLPL. 3 of them acts like a hitscan AC33 @ 21 tons. There's a reason it's an extremely popular weapon.

The IS Large Pulse is probably the best example of asymetrical balance that actually works; it is different to the Clan Large Pulse, but just as viable.

The problem is that it is really the only IS weapon that is actually great like that. The IS Large and ER Large aren't that bad either, but that's largely because the Clan ER Large is junk.

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

The only IS/clan imbalance I think is obvious is the smaller lasers. ISSLP/ISSL are kinda of on the crappy side. All of them have fairly short durations to start with so it doesn't make much of a difference that IS are shorter.

IS Gauss is identical in stats to the Clan version, but 3 tons heavier and 1 slot bigger. The IS PPCs are pretty bad compared to the Clan ER PPC too.

IS just really can't do PPFLD like Clans can.

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

General balance, autocannons of all types are kind of rubbish. They lose out at the PPFLD department by PPC/gauss and require more skill to aim than lasers. Their niche of sustained dps is pretty much a bad idea in a game with perfect convergence.

I'll have to disagree with that; I think the IS AC5 and Clan UAC2/5 are good when boated, and twin UAC10 makes for a decent build on many Clan heavies.
Hell, twin UAC5 + a bunch of lasers is a decent build on most Clan heavies.

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

The XL issue is balanced by clan spreading damage more etc etc etc

even then, losing a ST on a clan mech is often the point you die anyway. Like an EBJ losing its primary side, or a hellbringer losing it's left torso.

I find IS XL is still underpowered, even with the IS durability quirks and Clan weapons tending to spread damage more.
Most meta IS builds run IS XLs anyway, but it usually requires a very well quirked IS mech for that to work, and most players prefer the equivilant Clan build.

Hell, I run XLs on almost all my IS mechs, but I still prefer Clans 9 out of 10 times, simply because it is less punishing of mistakes.

Edited by Zergling, 11 May 2017 - 07:08 PM.

[Gyrok]

Zergling, on 11 May 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

If the IS mech gets a shot opportunity of 0.67 seconds and dumps three large pulse lasers into the target, it does 33 damage.
If the Clan mech gets the same 0.67 second shot opportunity and dumps its alpha into the target, it does 40 damage.

Err...the BLR2C or the BNC3M can dump 55 damage in that timespan when required...and not overheat.

[Mcgral18]

Templar Dane, on 11 May 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

What disadvantages would those be? Range is pretty close on the common fits. In the case of ERLLs it's pretty much slightly in IS favor. CLPL may out range ISLPL, but they don't outrange ISERLL and if you're playing the range game you aren't going to bring ISLPL anyway. Duration and damage/tick are in IS favor on the common fits. Heat is mostly in favor of IS. IS tend to generate more heat, clan tends to carry more heat sinks. IS wins because of requiring generally less volleys to kill. Tonnage? That one is a grey area. While IS weapons are heavier, they require less heat sinks. Oh right none of that is true because the clanner will always hit a ST 100% with the full burn duration of his medium lasers. He'll always win every trade because the IS guy always brings the wrong weapon to the map.

Same disadvantages there always is:
isXL
Lower dissipation

If you go STD, then Speed goes down


They don't normally generate more heat; it's that they carry fewer heatsinks, so they can handle less heat.


3LPLs and 2 LPLs volley fired?
Or 5 LPLs for 56 heat? Or, a 75% alpha strike...considerably worse than the Clam mech, at 65% (for more damage)

If you volley fire, more heat efficient, but a duration of let's say 1.2s (between the 0.5s Macro perfect, and the high end of 0.67+0.67)

That puts you...above the Clam mechs LOLpha (but it'll both be mutual facestaring).




At the very top end of quirked, good robots, the Sphere can compete
That is it

Mechs which don't have those quirks?
Inferior
Mechs with bad mounts? Same as Clam mechs...but without the superior tech or cXL

Mechs with bad mounts AND bad quirks?
RIP


The Clam Terribad at least have the crutch of Clam Tech to rest on; the cXL giving extra durability, the weapons have range for damage mitigation (If they can't hit you, you can't get hurt as badly)

Gyrok, on 12 May 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

Err...the BLR2C or the BNC3M can dump 55 damage in that timespan when required...and not overheat.

And then reach heat cap

75% heat on a Battlemaster, with inferior cooling


But, it can do it.

[Gyrok]

Mcgral18, on 12 May 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

And then reach heat cap

75% heat on a Battlemaster, with inferior cooling


But, it can do it.

You can still cycle your 2 LPLs after that, and continue to cool off while doing so...

[Zergling]

The Marauder IIC can cycle 2x Large Pulse too, and be cooling off over 2.5 times faster. While only being at 65% heat instead of 80% after firing its alpha!

Edited by Zergling, 12 May 2017 - 06:09 PM.