330 replies to this topic

[B0oN]

Monkey Lover, on 07 May 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

55/45 makes it sound close until you think about Is tonnage advantage and for what i have seen IS has had the scouting on their side most the time.

The worst IS mechs drivers still need tons of help because they cant torsotwist for their lives and will stare at you until they keel over and why tons of us are trying to stop the crazy skill tree nerfs coming.

FTFY

Dakota ?
Give it up brother, learning resistance is HARD to overcome, even more so for players that don´t really self-reflect, throw their faction-bias away or test stuff out with competent counterparts .

Night-Gyr OP ?
C´mon, kitties, dont make me laugh . That thing "might" have some nice hardpoints, but it´s soooo slow that each and every of my CW/FP-IS mechs outruns, out-DPS´s, out-cools and out-tanks them . On STD engines ...

Kodiak OP ?
Gnihihihi, slow mech with wide shoulders ... too easy to avoid, flank and murder . Alternatively, use that armour and internals PGI have given to you and just facetank and out-dps it (UAC10 jams VERY quick) .

Poptarts a problem ?
Repeatedly abuse your capability to fire 5ERLL/LPL´s without nuking your own while that thing is airborne. Let´s see if he does that again ...

All I see is people demanding "I WIN" EZmode buttons .
Sad bunch ...

#Bad habits, worse biases .

P.S.: Get your silly little biases out of the way, they stop you from finding good stuff .
I´m off to do some terrible things with NVA´s and UM´s ...

Edited by The Shortbus, 07 May 2017 - 11:15 PM.

[Half Ear]

Khobai, on 07 May 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

simple. you allow clan and IS mechs on the same teams.

it works in quickplay. and at this point in the timeline (3068) its not uncommon for clans and IS to fight alongside eachother.

I would counter that, IF it was ever allowed, a player could only field one Clan mech per deck.

[Lupis Volk]

Dogstar, on 07 May 2017 - 11:25 PM, said:

Congratulations! You win a membership to Clan Crocodile Tears where only the most unsupported of strawman arguments are allowed. Here's your new clan logo:



Looks like I'm going to have to make a 'Clan Douchebag' logo too because some people are just total **********s

While you at it make a House Cry baby and House Douchebag while you at it, got to have it go both ways.

[Monkey Lover]

The Shortbus, on 07 May 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

FTFY

Dakota ?
Give it up brother, learning resistance is HARD to overcome, even more so for players that don´t really self-reflect, throw their faction-bias away or test stuff out with competent counterparts .

Night-Gyr OP ?
C´mon, kitties, dont make me laugh . That thing "might" have some nice hardpoints, but it´s soooo slow that each and every of my CW/FP-IS mechs outruns, out-DPS´s, out-cools and out-tanks them . On STD engines ...

Kodiak OP ?
Gnihihihi, slow mech with wide shoulders ... too easy to avoid, flank and murder . Alternatively, use that armour and internals PGI have given to you and just facetank and out-dps it (UAC10 jams VERY quick) .

Poptarts a problem ?
Repeatedly abuse your capability to fire 5ERLL/LPL´s without nuking your own while that thing is airborne. Let´s see if he does that again ...

All I see is people demanding "I WIN" EZmode buttons .
Sad bunch ...

#Bad habits, worse biases .

P.S.: Get your silly little biases out of the way, they stop you from finding good stuff .
I´m off to do some terrible things with NVA´s and UM´s ...

Lets look at the top rated team on mrbc right now

Spoiler

https://mrbcleague.c...f14de55e302.jpg

https://mrbcleague.c...6184737ebbc.jpg

https://mrbcleague.c...06c31ac7d29.jpg

https://mrbcleague.c...d7b4243c5e6.jpg

https://mrbcleague.c...636b4017e87.jpg

5 drops 40 mechs, out of 40 they run 7 is mechs. If they were allowed more doubles i bet they wouldn't run any other than maybe the grasshopper.

I don't play cw anymore so i run mostly clan mechs i know whats best right now

[Tiewolf]

Devils Advocate, on 07 May 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

I don't see how you can balance the two sides against each other since they have fundamentally different lasers, tonnage, and mobility.

Its actualy very easy. Just stick to the BT lore. Clan better mechs but few = IS worse mechs but more. The old quality vs. quantity struggle. PGI made the mistake to reduce tonnage and not the numbers of clan mechs in the dropdecks. Tonnage doesn`t matter cause even the medium clanmechs outbrawl IS heavys.
Just let clans bid for combat with the amount of mechs they want to field and give them only few to no rewards in cbills+xp if they drop with 4mechs and high cbill bonuses if they choose to drop with only 1mech. Risk-reward balancing themself or give them only 3 mechs to drop agains 4 IS mechs. Problems solved + everybody IS&Clan happy! But i guess PGI is too in love with their way of doing things that they will never consider that they have gone the wrong road.

Edited by Tiewolf, 08 May 2017 - 01:23 AM.

[Dogstar]

Tiewolf, on 08 May 2017 - 01:18 AM, said:

Problems solved + everybody IS&Clan happy!

The real problem is Clan tears, they absolutely can't stand being outnumbered

[B0oN]

Dogstar, on 07 May 2017 - 11:25 PM, said:

Congratulations! You win a membership to Clan Crocodile Tears where only the most unsupported of strawman arguments are allowed. Here's your new clan logo:



Looks like I'm going to have to make a 'Clan Douchebag' logo too because some people are just total **********s

D´awwww, thanks honeybuns .
I ´ll put that where it belongs . Into the abyss .
And that from a guy that can´t even bring an argument, only thinly veiled and really badly put together insults .

Effort : F
Style : F
Impact : F

#learning resistance off the scale detected

---------

MRBC unequal to QP or CW/FP
So what was your point again ?
Oh right, none at all .
Different modes force different styles, did that easy logic never occur to you ?
QP is its own style
CW/FP is its own style
MRBC/Comp is its own style

Above styles DO NOT mix, nor can somebody of sound mind deduce anything applicable from one style for the other .

Really lads, so many of you are fine argumenters, good dataminers and even excellent mechwarriors .
Yet so many cant see the wood in front of them because of 1 tree #seewhatIdidthere^^ .
The one thing that "would count" :
Grab a buddy of yours that is the same level of mechwarrior .
Go to private lobby .
Play 1vs1 .
Test clans and IS back to back .
Come back to me after doing that, lets see what you guys found .
All else is just blahblah to me .

Edited by The Shortbus, 08 May 2017 - 02:31 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 May 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Stuff.

We could go back and fourth arguing over preferences for days and already have, so I'm done arguing points here.

Thunderbolts and Battlemasters and Banshees have been staple builds in FW since its inception. IS LPL spam has always been a reliable and solid option for a great many players. Dragon does exactly what the Thunderbolt does but objectively better while being 5 tons lighter. Battlemasters are the same old powerhouse they've always been. Now you can bring 3 Dragons and a Battlemaster, no more just having 3 Thunderbolts and a Warhammer.


Based on what you said its like we play different FWs entirely. I've never not seen CERML not be the bread and butter of a Clan team, usually backed by LPL at that. Occasionally there will be Mad Dog SRM lances, but its much much more uncommon.

Even then once inside the base you can easily get out of SRM range. On maps like Vitric Forge there are craters and walls all up over the base for peeking around and chokepoints to form firing lines infront of. Even on Emerald the main gate leads right into a long corridor that can be used by longer ranged mechs before they get into the base. I've been able to use ERLL at full optimal range on that place.

If range really didn't matter all too much in FW why is it that the IS asked for C-ERML range to be cut down, then C-LPL range after that, and even the C-ERSLs. Then Gauss gets max range cut down after that. Defending isn't just standing around in the base waiting for the enemy to come right in to brawling range, its setting up a firing line at optimal range with firing lines on the gates and blasting enemies before they get in range so that by the time the brawlers are in SRM range only half of them have an SRM left.

[Karl Streiger]

Half Ear, on 07 May 2017 - 11:16 PM, said:

I would counter that, IF it was ever allowed, a player could only field one Clan mech per deck.

why?
Its the most simple experiment possible.
Allow both sides to take the mech of their liking for the second half of the Tuk event.


Of course some Clan loyalist don't own IS mechs and vice versa - but when its not the tech alone - things will stay the same.

[Ryllen Kriel]

The Shortbus, on 07 May 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

FTFY

Dakota ?
Give it up brother, learning resistance is HARD to overcome, even more so for players that don´t really self-reflect, throw their faction-bias away or test stuff out with competent counterparts .

Night-Gyr OP ?
C´mon, kitties, dont make me laugh . That thing "might" have some nice hardpoints, but it´s soooo slow that each and every of my CW/FP-IS mechs outruns, out-DPS´s, out-cools and out-tanks them . On STD engines ...

Kodiak OP ?
Gnihihihi, slow mech with wide shoulders ... too easy to avoid, flank and murder . Alternatively, use that armour and internals PGI have given to you and just facetank and out-dps it (UAC10 jams VERY quick) .

Poptarts a problem ?
Repeatedly abuse your capability to fire 5ERLL/LPL´s without nuking your own while that thing is airborne. Let´s see if he does that again ...

All I see is people demanding "I WIN" EZmode buttons .

I'm not sure I have ever seen anyone give advice on face hugging a Kodiak before and using armour quirks to counter it's impressive alphas. The flanking...Sure, the face hugging...uh, no, not unless you are in a Locust and the Kodiak can't pitch down far enough to shoot you.

The Night Gyr is slow? It doesn't have to be fast with the current meta of long ranged gauss/ppc that is everywhere in standard or breakfast pastry varieties. Just be glad PGI doesn't care about macros/can't restrict them and you have a poptart in your arsenal that works...and does the job extremely well.

ER large lasers are only a somewhat decent counter for gauss/PPC poptarts because it's the lone reliable Inner Sphere direct fire weapon which can hit back at long range. It is not a wise one since it is duration damage weaponry on a moving target versus burst damage from a stationary one. Inner Sphere gauss and ER PPCs aren't as good at extreme ranges on flying targets for obvious reasons. Either way trading at range is suicide for Inner Sphere pilots so the only real solution is to advance under cover to brawl.

Inner Sphere large pulse lasers are great but are effectively medium ranged weapons if you want to even come close to maximizing their damage potential.

[Karl Streiger]

Ryllen Kriel, on 08 May 2017 - 05:17 AM, said:

ER large lasers are only a somewhat decent counter for gauss/PPC poptarts because it's the lone reliable Inner Sphere direct fire weapon which can hit back at long range. It is not a wise one since it is duration damage weaponry on a moving target versus burst damage from a stationary one. Inner Sphere gauss and ER PPCs aren't as good at extreme ranges on flying targets for obvious reasons. Either way trading at range is suicide for Inner Sphere pilots so the only real solution is to advance under cover to brawl.

Inner Sphere large pulse lasers are great but are effectively medium ranged weapons if you want to even come close to maximizing their damage potential.

Shortbus mentioned the Battlemaster with ERLarge Laser - using the 360 of my Cyclops to preserve money its armed with 4 ER Large Laser - was surprised that it worked quite good.
Beam rate and heat was adequate (didn't came close to overheat) - clearly much better than ERPPCs
Considering that I'm a brawler to survive a round was strange enough - don't have enough battles to decide if the hill humping is a good trade facing a poptarter.

However I'm not overly impressed by the KDK... ok its sniping configuration is ok (but with the arms free its a huge target) - the UAC build was never a big thing - not if you didn't play along

Edit:
The more serious problem is build /drop deck consistency - when you have 4 mechs that have the same "engagement" range is more worth than to have all the 4 best meta mechs. add a drop caller and you have a deal.
Ok 4 meta mechs with the same engagement range will beat that 4 other mechs however

Edited by Karl Streiger, 08 May 2017 - 05:29 AM.

[Mawai]

Dakota1000, on 06 May 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

Not to mention that gauss max range was nerfed so if an IS ERLL mechs with quirks and modules is firing at their optimal the gauss will be dealing about half damage. Gauss being the Night Gyr's main weapons would lead to the Night Gyr dealing 15 from the gauss and 10 from the ppc (with 2.5-5 points of splash).

Wonderful 25 damage trade compared to grass hopper's 45 damage with 5ERLL.

Night Gyr loses by 20 damage per trade while being a 5 ton heavier mech while being slower so that the Grasshopper can kite it. [25 ton drop deck disadvantage intensifies]

Just a quick comment.

The Night Gyr pilot must be an absolute idiot if he lets a Grasshopper do 45 points of laser damage to one component at 600m. The only way that is happening is if the Night Gyr decides to stand still, not twist AND the Grasshopper pilot has a steady hand on the mouse or an aimbot. However, a Night Gyr mounting PPFLD weapons SHOULD be twisting and moving all the time except for the few seconds needed to line up the shot.

Anyway, the point is that anyone can theorycraft IS builds that might be better than some clan builds at certain ranges ... but the Grasshopper or Battlemaster won't be firing more than 3 LL at a time without earning some ghost heat ... which strongly affects sustained DPS.


Finally, to the OP:

"Whenever we play on IS we bring good builds, we crush Clan teams. Whenever we play on Clan we bring good builds and we crush IS teams."

Of course ... this doesn't prove ANYTHING about clan vs IS balance . It simply supports a fundamental axiom of MWO .. "TEAMWORK is OP". Any good team working together can defeat almost any other diorganized group in almost any mech. 12 organized locusts have a decent chance of defeating 12 loners in assaults.

Even in the current event, the numbers are something like 55% wins for clans vs 45% wins for IS. It isn't balanced but it is on the order of clan mechs being 10 to 30% better ... even though IS has a 25 ton advantage in drop decks. Player skill, drop deck choices and tech all factor into this imbalance so it is impossible to determine which are the dominant factors without more data.

Finally, you suggest an ideal IS drop deck of a Battlemaster 2C and three Dragon 1C. This only works for dedicated FW players with deep pockets. I'd suggest that alot of the IS folks don't even own one Dragon 1C .. nevermind three ... which is why balance needs to be better so that there is a range of choice of decent mechs for a drop deck in FW or in quick play.

[Kangarad]

Mawai, on 08 May 2017 - 05:58 AM, said:

Just a quick comment.

The Night Gyr pilot must be an absolute idiot if he lets a Grasshopper do 45 points of laser damage to one component at 600m. The only way that is happening is if the Night Gyr decides to stand still, not twist AND the Grasshopper pilot has a steady hand on the mouse or an aimbot. However, a Night Gyr mounting PPFLD weapons SHOULD be twisting and moving all the time except for the few seconds needed to line up the shot.

that would mean that the nightgyr would be gettign shot.

ive had multiple times in FW in the last days wher I stood completely still on an elevated position and out in the open and just shot into the enemy gate push from (within 600m) while they were comming towards me and in the case of emerald taiga running under me while I stood on the orbital platform... that pug(clan) v group(is) match got me 11 kills 6 solo 9 kmdd's... because I was the one that was most front and not hiding by the orbital cannon... without getting scratched... still lost due to them just taking out omega with the pugs being unable to engage and hidin...


BTT:

I suggest that people drop the OLD metamechs that have been nerfed repeatedly because they keep getting used and take some of the lesser used ones, while the dragon is a great example... how bout that 6 ac2 KGC ? a wave of long range shake? The roughtneck is good but it just runs the ac20/srms build of the shadowhawk.

maybe bring in some trebuchest with theyr 25%+ srm and 15%+ laser firerate and cooldown quirks? wait no... nobody plays those.
maybe 25% is not enough... how bout 30%/25%/20% cooldown aswell as MORE cooldown quirks and - 30% heatgen and +6% mech heat loss rate and some more range and velocity quirks ? Vindicators .... such heavy quirks lol.

Cataprahcts.. also great quirks... just not as good at spreading damage.

Orions... also some variants with great quirks all around

HBK sure the HBKIIC can do some stuff better but this one has quirks of up to 30%+ on some stuff. build it for those and wreck faces.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Mawai, on 08 May 2017 - 05:58 AM, said:

Finally, you suggest an ideal IS drop deck of a Battlemaster 2C and three Dragon 1C. This only works for dedicated FW players with deep pockets. I'd suggest that alot of the IS folks don't even own one Dragon 1C .. nevermind three ... which is why balance needs to be better so that there is a range of choice of decent mechs for a drop deck in FW or in quick play.

Dragons are pretty cheap and a Battlemaster 2C isn't the most expensive assault. All the IS builds will be running STD engines anyway, the Dragons actually downgrade from their stock 300 to a 275.

Clanners will be paying more for their dropdecks due to all of their mechs bringing XL engines.

Besides that, Clanners have had their tonnage limits cut down multiple times, my unit mates all had stormcrows, now we all have bought 50 tonners instead, so that's 11 million gone just from tonnage cuts. I used to be able to bring 4 65 tonners back when IS were the OP ones a year or so ago, now I have to bring a 45 tonner. These mechs are wildly expensive and due to weight rebalances I'm forced to buy new ones just to even be able to drop again if I'm running Clan mechs. I'm sure the IS will survive just buying some 60 tonners that have a sale price under 5 million cbills.


You say that balance needs to be better so there is a larger range of choices, but this isn't really an IS vs Clan issue, as IS best deck vs Clan best deck is rather even, maybe even skewed towards IS heavily, but due to the IS having more mechs and many of those mechs not being too good compared to the number of bad Clan mechs IS is just going to lose over and over again because of the casual players and PUGs who aren't only bringing the best their side has to offer and drag their side down in the process.

I really don't understand how people can go and realistically complain about their enemies being OP while they use some of their own side's worst mechs and worst builds. If we had IS vs IS maybe then people would find the hypocrisy too much to bear and actually talk about improving certain weak mechs in particular instead of power nerfing the enemy's faction to the point where a group of pugs using the worst builds can beat a 12 man meta squad.

[Y E O N N E]

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

Based on what you said its like we play different FWs entirely. I've never not seen CERML not be the bread and butter of a Clan team, usually backed by LPL at that. Occasionally there will be Mad Dog SRM lances, but its much much more uncommon.

Perhaps because most of my FW experience comes from playing against organized teams like RJF, KCom, and MS. They don't stop and poke when they've breached, they bowl over the generators like a tide if you can't stop them at the gates. I actually haven't played against PUG teams that much, Clan or IS.

Quote

If range really didn't matter all too much in FW why is it that the IS asked for C-ERML range to be cut down, then C-LPL range after that, and even the C-ERSLs. Then Gauss gets max range cut down after that. Defending isn't just standing around in the base waiting for the enemy to come right in to brawling range, its setting up a firing line at optimal range with firing lines on the gates and blasting enemies before they get in range so that by the time the brawlers are in SRM range only half of them have an SRM left.

What on Earth makes you think those changes were driven by FW? They were issues across every game mode, even the competitive scene broadly agreed. And what on Earth makes you feel that I think defending is so passive? I know how to defend my keep, but some maps simply don't allow you to set up a firing line to stop the enemy before they get to the gates. Emerald is one of them. Sulfurous is another where that is difficult. And on the ones that give the enemy a long walk to get shot up, you think the enemy is going to lead with SRMs? No!

[Kubernetes]

Mawai, on 08 May 2017 - 05:58 AM, said:

Finally, you suggest an ideal IS drop deck of a Battlemaster 2C and three Dragon 1C. This only works for dedicated FW players with deep pockets. I'd suggest that alot of the IS folks don't even own one Dragon 1C .. nevermind three ... which is why balance needs to be better so that there is a range of choice of decent mechs for a drop deck in FW or in quick play.

"Deep pockets"? Did Dragons suddenly get more expensive?

As for "dedicated FW players," that's right, some of us like FW and have spent years playing it. We've figured out optimal builds and decks for every map and mode. You can't walk into FW with your regular QP style and expect to do well. It's a totally different game. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. Either learn to play FW effectively (bring those BLRs and WHM/GHPs), or resign yourself to getting wrecked for four straight waves.

[Fobhopper]

Overall, Clans have just overall better tech and better loadout options available to them. Built in CASE, superior XL engines, better double heatsinks, better weight for weapons allowing them to boat more weapon systems, further range on weapons in comparison to IS.

IS mechs have heavier weapons and shorter range, fewer hardpoint options, insta-death XL engines, worse double heatsinks. Without quirks, IS mechs wouldnt stand a chance against clans (like what happened in the first battle of tukayyid). While IS lasers have shorter burn time, and AC weapons fire in single slugs, inferior range plays a major factor since so many FW based maps are long range firing corridors without a whole lot of cover.

I play Both IS and Clan, I enjoy running both. Personally I enjoy IS mechs more (I obsess over the KGC and marauder), but if you compare similarly weighted mechs against each other, Clan mechs win out most of the time. Most IS mechs cant bring to bear as much damage as clan mechs, with the same speed or armor. Clan mechs do more damage, move much faster, and dont instantly die with the loss of a side torso if you bring an XL engine.

In smaller scale fights, like scouting we are seeing IS being able to fight on fair terms and win more often than not because the smaller scale fighting and close range most fights happen in is in the favor of IS mechs and their shorter range weapons. But in faction warfare maps that have very long range fire corridors (almost all of the FW maps) where clans can put better use of their long range weapons, and dive back into cover to bleed off heat from their alpha's in relative safety, they easily outperform IS mechs which have to get in much closer range in order to deal effective damage.

The civil war update is going to give IS mechs much needed balance when it comes to engines with LFE's, as well as give IS mechs some much needed ER lasers, among other goodies. And I think it will put the game in much better balance between the factions. While Clan will still eek out ahead in balance, things will be much closer.


And to be honest, while clan mechs just operate at a baseline much better than IS mechs, its not helping the IS in the fact that people bring real derpy builds into FW. Like real ******* derpy (house davion is kind of the poster child for this). Making an already hard fight much more difficult. There is a reason why clanners have won the last 2 BoT, and its not just because clan mechs are better, they also tend to take less derpy mechs into the fights.

Edited by Fobhopper, 08 May 2017 - 11:08 AM.

[Templar Dane]

Fobhopper, on 08 May 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Overall, Clans have just overall better tech and better loadout options available to them. Built in CASE, superior XL engines, better double heatsinks, better weight for weapons allowing them to boat more weapon systems, further range on weapons in comparison to IS.

IS mechs have heavier weapons and shorter range, fewer hardpoint options, insta-death XL engines, worse double heatsinks. Without quirks, IS mechs wouldnt stand a chance against clans (like what happened in the first battle of tukayyid). While IS lasers have shorter burn time, and AC weapons fire in single slugs, inferior range plays a major factor since so many FW based maps are long range firing corridors without a whole lot of cover.

I play Both IS and Clan, I enjoy running both. Personally I enjoy IS mechs more (I obsess over the KGC and marauder), but if you compare similarly weighted mechs against each other, Clan mechs win out most of the time. Most IS mechs cant bring to bear as much damage as clan mechs, with the same speed or armor. Clan mechs do more damage, move much faster, and dont instantly die with the loss of a side torso if you bring an XL engine.

In smaller scale fights, like scouting we are seeing IS being able to fight on fair terms and win more often than not because the smaller scale fighting and close range most fights happen in is in the favor of IS mechs and their shorter range weapons. But in faction warfare maps that have very long range fire corridors (almost all of the FW maps) where clans can put better use of their long range weapons, and dive back into cover to bleed off heat from their alpha's in relative safety, they easily outperform IS mechs which have to get in much closer range in order to deal effective damage.

The civil war update is going to give IS mechs much needed balance when it comes to engines with LFE's, as well as give IS mechs some much needed ER lasers, among other goodies. And I think it will put the game in much better balance between the factions. While Clan will still eek out ahead in balance, things will be much closer.


And to be honest, while clan mechs just operate at a baseline much better than IS mechs, its not helping the IS in the fact that people bring real derpy builds into FW. Like real ******* derpy (house davion is kind of the poster child for this). Making an already hard fight much more difficult. There is a reason why clanners have won the last 2 BoT, and its not just because clan mechs are better, they also tend to take less derpy mechs into the fights.

2x CERLL = 22 damage/20 heat/1.5s duration @ 740m
3x ISERLL = 27 damage/24 heat/1.25s duration @ 675m (742.5m with 10% range quirk)

5x CERML = 35 damage/30 heat/1.15s duration @ 405m
3x ISLPL = 33 damage/21 heat/.67s duration @ 365m (401.5m with 10% range quirk)

Base stats with no quirks, 10% range quirk in parentheses. Where's that massive range advantage? Even with targeting computers, I'd still take the IS vomit any day of the week because of the shorter durations.

CXL vs ISXL........clan weapons tend to spread damage more than IS equivalents. It's easier to core out your target when your damage goes where you want rather than spreading around the target as it moves.

Better heat sinks? How about having to fire less volleys to kill something because your damage isn't spread around the target as much, thus generating less heat?

[Lykaon]

Nighthawk513, on 06 May 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

At least clan mechs die when you shoot them...

Have you tried shooting I.S. mechs in the side torso? you know the place where they keep the suicide box called an XL engine.

[Kubernetes]

Templar Dane, on 08 May 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

Base stats with no quirks, 10% range quirk in parentheses. Where's that massive range advantage? Even with targeting computers, I'd still take the IS vomit any day of the week because of the shorter durations.

Yep, Clan ERLLs are trash compared to their IS counterparts. Throw in a duration-quirked chassis like the Grasshopper 5P and the difference is even more stark.

The Clans have an obvious counter in Gauss/ERPPC, but those are high skill weapons that maybe 10-20% of the playerbase can use effectively. The average pug using IS ERLL is going to beat an average pug using Clan Gauss/ERPPC.