284 replies to this topic

[Xannatharr]

justcallme A S H, on 24 May 2017 - 08:22 PM, said:

Groups. Not units, GROUPS.

If your going to argue something, at least get it right.

And also GROUPS prefer seal clubbing? Stop talking about elephant dung man, just stop. Everyone I play with prefers a good fight over a 48-12 roll. You won't find ONE decent player who backs clubbing. That 'view' is just that of the uneducated/bad player base, IE, you.

Got to pretty much agree here - it's a little bit fun stomping a disorganized team into the ground every now and then, but it is a LOT more satisfying to get a close match against a good opponent, even if we lose.

Xann

[Marius Evander]

justcallme A S H, on 25 May 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...nts?t=201705tuk

Just click leaderboard, add up numbers. I did it a few days before the end and it was 54/46 - It won't have changed that much.

That includes scouting =( still waiting for PGi to give 12v12 results numbers then.

[justcallme A S H]

KingCobra, on 25 May 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

Once again you seem butt hurt thinking im talking about you personnaly
when in fact the truth hurts.

So when is the proof coming to back up your claim?

Edited by justcallme A S H, 25 May 2017 - 04:26 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

---

IMPORTANT: "Solo" here refers to the players who drop alone, refuse to work with the team, jeopardize their team's efforts, and end up being actively detrimental to their team. These are people that I unashamedly call "morons". If you drop alone, but work with your team, you are not one of these people.

Now that we got that out of the way, on with the response.

---

KingCobra, on 24 May 2017 - 07:39 PM, said:

I disagree you and many others have this philosophy FP is just for units and that's what is killing FP game mode and MWO player base and new player retention. Sure PGI has not made this game new player friendly and FP is a prime example of a failed concept from day1 mixing PUGS and units.

If a player wants to join a unit great let them and play in a unit Vs unit queue like group play or in FP as unit Vs unit only. Personally I think there would be more crying from units having to just play units all the time than pugs playing pugs only in FP.

Units want there binky=(seal clubbing pugs and new players for easy rewards) in FP a lot of units don't give a dang if it was there last drop because every player left FP or MWO or refused to play anything but solo queues.

This tells me you really have no idea what we're talking about

1- GROUPS not Units

2- I challenge you to take a look at all of my CW posts (you can easily search my name, or go to my profile, and see my previous posts. I have NEVER wanted new players in CW. In fact, I have been one of the loudest voices about gating CW, and preventing new players from entering it PERIOD.

Hell, my ideal suggestion was that in order for a player to enter CW, they have to own all FOUR mechs on their drop deck, and they all must be Elited.

3- This mode should NEVER cater to solo play. That's the end of this discussion. You need to begin to understand this point. This is a mode for teamwork, and as such people that don't work with their team should not be rewarded.

You're basically saying that you want to play Billiards, but you want to use hammers instead of sticks, and then complain, and demand that everyone uses hammers, instead of sticks.

Either learn the mode, or go play something else. Yes, that's not the answer you want, but tough luck. This is a mode designed for teamwork (teamwork means working wit the team, not necessarily being in a unit). We already have QP for those that don't want to use their brains, or want a quick match.

4- Units/groups don't want their "binky" wherever the hell you got that from. Farming solo rambos is one of the dullest, and least rewarding experiences in this game. It's about as fun as shoving a power drill doing 3500 Rpms into my eye ball.

Hell, I've literally (not figuratively) spent 5+ minutes in many matches typing advice (tactics/builds) in ALL chat (against my teammates' advice) to the enemy team. I've also asked them to join us on the TS server, or at least find me on the forums, or add me in-game so I can chat with them, and help them figure this mode out.

We want good matches, against competent teams, because those are the fun ones. If someone wants to play alone, and ignore their team, they should stick to QP.

naterist, on 24 May 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

just split the ques. groups want coordinated fights, solos want to feel involved. there are many options to do this. for example make scouting the solo que, and invasion for groups, or split the ques and give the solo que its own effect on the tug of war.

We already have split queues. People who want to play solo go into QP. Those who want to work and have fun as a group go into CW.

naterist, on 24 May 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

fact is the two groups, solos and group players, need to exist in fw simultaneously, and maybe even grow a symbiotic relationship with each other. as it is right now, their clashing, which is driving down our already limited population, when they could be seperated and nurtured, so the population can stop shrinking.

The PROBLEM here is that the effort rests solely on the solo players. The groups can't force them to work with them. We have been trying to work with solo players for literally years, and they stubbornly refuse to be anything than a hindrance and a problem.

At this point, it's better to remove them from the game, since they insist on not working with the team. I would rather have fewer matches, where the teams are both decent, than many matches plagued by morons, and idiots.


Also, bonus points for the optimistic insanity that is "separated and nurtured". They won't be nurtured. In fact, the solo mentality shouldn't be nurtured. It is bad, in every respect, and has been a cancer blight upon this game from day 1.

They have been a problem for many of this game's modes, and in particular CW, because nothing ruins a match faster than 1-2 idiots with a combined IQ of a banana jeopardizing their team's plan, and costing them the match.

In fact, PGI's single greatest failure (and that's a big declaration, considering some of their mess ups) has been catering to the needs of the solo crybabies, instead of driving the mechanics of the game to reward group play, and teamwork over solo moronism. Because I would rather have 11 guys who are dropping solo, but decide to work together in a team, over 1 solo rambo moron.

Wanting to learn the mode isn't even an excuse, after 1-2 drops any sane person would decide to check one of the TS3 servers that are publicly advertised across the forums, and ask someone for some pointers.

naterist, on 24 May 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

but it all breaks down in to a population issue. id argue that the loyalist only events should be limited to small group size, see how that does for keeping the population alive. big groups in normal is v clan que, faction-conflict que for the guys still in training wheels. then those solos/small groups may graduate up to the big-league conflicts when they're on their feet, and understand how respawns effect gameplay and strategy better.

That's an idea I'm willing to try. However, it requires PGI to create hardlocked group sizes, and split MMs. I can tell you from my personal experience with them: You'll have better luck milking a roadrunner.

ccrider, on 25 May 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

I get the distinct feeling that those looking for solo FP just want to farm pugs without the danger of running into groups.....

DING DING DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!

Edited by IraqiWalker, 25 May 2017 - 04:37 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

ccrider, on 25 May 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

I get the distinct feeling that those looking for solo FP just want to farm pugs without the danger of running into groups.....

That is most certainly part of it. The T3-T5 bads don't want tough games, as evident by the fact they all disappear after one tough game even if it's 48-30 or something reasonably close

I mean performances like this basically tell you everything you need to know. "T1"... Yeah right. Not the first time a similar result has occurred either.

tacorodwarrior, on 25 May 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

This tread should have ended when Ash gave his advice. Join in a teamspeak group Join a unit. Put good builds on your mechs. It is as simple as that. There is no arguing I am far from the best player in the world but 6 months ago i was tier 5, I joined IDI they suggested some builds called some games and now im a few games away from tier one, it is a fantastic unit. As for the teamspeak thing just join in with Ash his drop calls are EXCELLENT and the drunker he gets the more fun it is. (his achilles heal is tell him he does not have to call then he cant help but call).

lol... using my achilles heel. That's cheap

[justcallme A S H]

IraqiWalker, on 25 May 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

This tells me you really have no idea what we're talking about

Not a clue.

"I played the BETA" is apparently enough to suggest you know the mode inside and out. I mean, lets not forget the fact said person has not played the mode in at least 12 months, isn't any good at it and from what it seems - drops solo.

Total trainwreck waiting to happen.

[Commander A9]

Leone, on 24 May 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

Actually Commander, you are incorrect.

When the defenders are spawn camping and get overrun, it is a perfect learning oppourtunity for them, and excellent training.

Heck, one of the reasons I joined Kell's Commandos was they'd always give advice and suggestions when I was goin' up against em. My build decisions and playstyle developed around going head to head against 'em in CW during the first iteration. The problem isn't that we're not willing to train our opposition.

It's that we offer life fire training exercises, some of the best available, and few are willing to pay attention or try to learn.

You can lead the horse to water...

~Leone.

Well, there's chatting in-game and offering up advice, sure, but it's not like we're going to stop short of a full charge into the enemy's base when they fold like a house of cards because 'we're afraid they'll feel bad' and then say 'hey, meet in this grid and we'll teach you how to play!'

If anything, THAT will set us up to lose.

If we want to take lead from 228th and host private matches to teach people how to get better, sure, I'm all for that, but I'm not doing that in a live firefight.

[Gerwig]

Since this is considered the "expert" part of the game, it should be group only.

[TWIAFU]

KingCobra, on 25 May 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

And I agree with you when I do play FP as a unit player I just want to play Unit Vs Unit no pugs/casuals/or new players so it is more competitive.

And when I just want to mess around with build testing ETC I want to play FP as a pug/casual/solo player in a PUG Vs PUG queue its not that hard to comprehend.

In the end PGI has to make the call on FP but from what I can personally see on Discord/TS3 groups/units are dying fast only during these events of seal clubbing pugs for rewards DO PLAYERS EVEN BOTHER TO PLAY FP which is sad because I personally love to play FP but hate to see what I have to do to get the rewards which is drive players from the game mode and possibly the game itself.

With respect King, why put your team through you testing builds in a game mode where win/loss 'matters'.

You aware we have testing grounds for that very purpose.

Not to mention if you actually want pug vs pug games, you have a queue for that very thing, it is called QP.

Why should the Group/Unit queue have to change to suit you and your desire to periodically test builds in CW as a solo, when you have the very queue designed for that and a special arena for you to test?

[metallio]

So...if you all want FP to be group only...

What's the harm in having a QP-style solo queue?

You already can't get games. It's b!tched about constantly here in the forums.

You already have problems with seal clubbing.

You already don't want solos playing in your group queue.

You already don't want new players playing with you.

WTF does it hurt for them to play and learn these game modes and maps in a quick play style mode?

Are you really going to lose group players to that solo queue? How? Your group play population is already on life support and doing so badly that talking about pulling the plug isn't even hypothetical anymore.

Are you worried that there will be seal clubbing in the solo queue? ...ok...? What's different for the new player there or the advanced player? The absolute worst it could possibly be is the current situation in group queue.

Are you worried people will like it better? ...well...good for them? It's not going to shut down the group queue so who cares? You? Are you the reason people can't play even the tiniest bit of advanced mechwarrior that we all wanted solo? Because...why? Because you won't lose anything?

How could your experience in your little corner of the internet change?

Tuk3 was a giant mess of PuGs and was a great example of what it'd look like if we just had a solo queue for FP. People played the cr@p out of it and undisciplined group vs undisciplined group turned out to be pretty good games while the FP snobs were fighting over points in the scouting queue.

...do you really think having more people enjoying FP style combat will result in FEWER people in your group queue?

That's about as asinine a concept as I've heard all year and I've been keeping track of both PGI and POTUS twitters.

Make a solo queue. Make it available to everyone just as easily as QP is. Make it not count towards planet ownership, fine. Let people play the damn game.

[PFC Carsten]

metallio, on 26 May 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

Tuk3 was a giant mess of PuGs and was a great example of what it'd look like if we just had a solo queue for FP. People played the cr@p out of it and undisciplined group vs undisciplined group turned out to be pretty good games while the FP snobs were fighting over points in the scouting queue.

I would not exactly say snobs, maybe rather afficionados, but: QFT

[justcallme A S H]

The population right now cannot support a Solo / Group split.

It hasn't since the joke that was FP3 was launched and population decimated in less than 4 weeks.

[KingCobra]

TWIAFU, on 26 May 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

With respect King, why put your team through you testing builds in a game mode where win/loss 'matters'.

You aware we have testing grounds for that very purpose.

Not to mention if you actually want pug vs pug games, you have a queue for that very thing, it is called QP.

Why should the Group/Unit queue have to change to suit you and your desire to periodically test builds in CW as a solo, when you have the very queue designed for that and a special arena for you to test?

I use the testing grounds and smurfys first to make builds first but the true test for me is how well it plays in actual combat solo mm queus test certain builds and FP battles for others I always play to win no matter what mech or build im in for solo or FP battles.

Im not trying to change the game so much for myself as for everyone that still likes this game if PGI ignores what would work to rebuild the player base of this game in a year or two who will be left to play? Obviously matching pugs against units has not worked out well for FP or MWO so make a change before the game mode and game dies?.

Back when MWO started us old guard MW1/TT players told PGI it needed a huge social lobby system to help new players communicate and find other players for advice and finding units to play CW in did they listen? HELLL NO!!!!! in there ignorance they have lost 500,000 + players because MWO becomes boring and monotonous day after day with no Social options to break it up.

Mechwarrior2-mechwarrior4 Planetary leagues were not just battle after battle it was about true competition of units Vs units in a huge social environment that promoted player retention and growth along with banter and fun for everyone involved which was family friends acquaintances that you met in battles and the social system worked for Battletech/MechWarrior you could find wings to drop with in battles 24/7 7 days a week on the MSN gamming zone and the story goes on and on of a very successful set of PC games which PGI does not understand and MWO is lacking.

[Murphy7]

MischiefSC, on 22 May 2017 - 08:31 PM, said:

There is no 'comp' in FW. There's people who play pretty well and actually want to win when they enter the match and there's people who want it to be pug queue with a matchmaker, bring bad builds, play badly and ignore the team.

* * *

Quit trying to conflate 'not being terrible' with 'comp'. There's a lot of space between those concepts.

Preach it!

I am not a competition level player - I generally do well in FP.

I think people get the wrong idea when they score 2000+ damage while their team is averaging in the 200-600 range. Yes, individually you did better. Part of you doing better was the garden of potatoes catching fire for you, and part of their ineffectual damage dealing helps your damage numbers go up.

The more decent people on your team, the more evenly the damage scores should spread. It is interesting to see how far some of these FP heroes fall when in a decent group.

While the last time I took part in anything remotely competitive was Marik Civil War, the game play is very different in that environment.

[Baba_Yaga]

justcallme A S H, on 25 May 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

54% to 46% overall totals.

Clan didn't give an "*** kicking" at all. That is actually a very close end result.

Losing every day, is an *** kicking regardless of the stats, so your point is moot!

[PFC Carsten]

justcallme A S H, on 26 May 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

The population right now cannot support a Solo / Group split.

It hasn't since the joke that was FP3 was launched and population decimated in less than 4 weeks.

How long has this been the excuse for fans of the handle of the seal club? Not saying you're one, but still. I dare say that FaP stomping experience, warning sings or no, has driven more new players away - maybe from the game as a whole - than waiting times.

[Bigbacon]

This mode is still a pile of garbage. Scouting mode is like mech RC Pro AM. race around and do nothing.

the main battle mode is a joke unless you are in an organized group. I don't see how it is fun for either side. If you are in the group side, you win easily and if you are the pub/random side you melt quickly and waste time. Its more or less to let the groups get easy rewards.

Its been crap from the start and it is still crap now. There is little to no reason to play this mode if you aren't in some uber clan with perfect meta drop decks.

People are saying "Crap builds" well...not everyone has the ability to have the perfect meta deck and even if we all had it, it would still be stomp city for the randoms. and crap builds to you guys is probably anything that isn't a meta setup.

random groups, even with comms and perfect decks will still be no match for organized groups even if they are from mixed organized groups.

Sadly...
without randoms it would be even more of a ghost town than it is...and with them you get both sides complaining. There is no win/win UNLESS the player base in the game massively grew where it could handle having ORG vs ORG and PUG vs PUG play with fast drop times.

Edited by Bigbacon, 26 May 2017 - 09:36 AM.

[The Pug Commander]

been on the receiving end of a few stomps. One time i remember a drop where the enemy had 12 Kodiak on there first drop. yea it was like 48-4 or something lol.....I did notice that after playing faction against good teams and losing that going back to the qp que my aim was better and a few other things. you actually do learn allot getting rolled in faction play......like how to use cover and what mechs work in certain situations

[DarklightCA]

PFC Carsten, on 26 May 2017 - 08:36 AM, said:

How long has this been the excuse for fans of the handle of the seal club? Not saying you're one, but still. I dare say that FaP stomping experience, warning sings or no, has driven more new players away - maybe from the game as a whole - than waiting times.

How is it an excuse when it's true? The population hasn't been capable of supporting a split queue for a long time and that population has not been growing. Another attempt at a split queue would just be another nail in FP's coffin.

All for what? because a select few individuals want to turn Faction Play into another Quick Play just so they can easier try to get LP rewards without having to try/face better opponents?.

This conversation has been discussed to death. If you want a solo friendly Faction Play just go play Quick Play already, it's the same thing minus the respawns.

Also the only main thing driving players away is the poorly designed game mode itself. A majority of the population left after the first few weeks of Community Warfares release.

[MischiefSC]

metallio, on 26 May 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

So...if you all want FP to be group only...

What's the harm in having a QP-style solo queue?

You already can't get games. It's b!tched about constantly here in the forums.

You already have problems with seal clubbing.

You already don't want solos playing in your group queue.

You already don't want new players playing with you.

WTF does it hurt for them to play and learn these game modes and maps in a quick play style mode?

Are you really going to lose group players to that solo queue? How? Your group play population is already on life support and doing so badly that talking about pulling the plug isn't even hypothetical anymore.

Are you worried that there will be seal clubbing in the solo queue? ...ok...? What's different for the new player there or the advanced player? The absolute worst it could possibly be is the current situation in group queue.

Are you worried people will like it better? ...well...good for them? It's not going to shut down the group queue so who cares? You? Are you the reason people can't play even the tiniest bit of advanced mechwarrior that we all wanted solo? Because...why? Because you won't lose anything?

How could your experience in your little corner of the internet change?

Tuk3 was a giant mess of PuGs and was a great example of what it'd look like if we just had a solo queue for FP. People played the cr@p out of it and undisciplined group vs undisciplined group turned out to be pretty good games while the FP snobs were fighting over points in the scouting queue.

...do you really think having more people enjoying FP style combat will result in FEWER people in your group queue?

That's about as asinine a concept as I've heard all year and I've been keeping track of both PGI and POTUS twitters.

Make a solo queue. Make it available to everyone just as easily as QP is. Make it not count towards planet ownership, fine. Let people play the damn game.

So long as it doesn't get LP rewards or MC rewards, sure. Make it new maps/modes for people to play.

You want the better rewards you have to match the better level of play.

Also realize that there will still be dropzone farming and total stomps just as often there as here if not more often because there's no teams to even it out. 2 or 3 good players on one side are all it takes when it's all just puggles.

I always find it funny that people have this illusion that if they can just change X then they'll be able to still play poorly in bad mechs without teamwork but still win. That will never happen. Better players who make good choices, bring good mechs and coordinate with their team will always destroy those who don't. Always. That'll happen in a pug queue too. It always has.