284 replies to this topic

[Marius Evander]

TWIAFU, on 24 May 2017 - 03:28 AM, said:

Then the inverse must be true as well.

If you cannot play with the pros, then do not play in the 'pro queue'.

except its the only place to get mechbays.

[Moebius Pi]

Cadoazreal, on 24 May 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

except its the only place to get mechbays.

There's enough with the mentality around that getting stomped a hundred times plus in a row, is worth the time of getting stomped to get "Free Mechbays". You'll never change that with how the early rewards are set up, and there's no shortage I've talked to over time that just can't be ****** to care (about teamwork, winning, viable loadouts, anything really, so long as they grab some bays and duck back to QP). 3 bucks or so is to steep for a full time job's weekly hours+ of getting kicked in the head mecha style to get the easier bays.

Wimp-Lo style of Kung-Fu "Face meet foot style; I'm bleeding, that means I am the victor!" transfers well to MWO when you get a mechbay as a participation trophy "Cockpit Meets Dual Gauss Style; I'm smoking, that means I put up a good fight! Just wait until you face, Stripped CT armor meets 6 Er Med, 2 LPL style! My mech explosion will teach you not to mess with me... yay mech bay!".


Outside of a proper matchmaker (or even one that -tries- to curtail some of these issues), the reward setup makes the big warning something worth ignoring. It's never going to change without a fairly hefty shift. But that means putting some dev time into FP, doesn't it?

Edited by Moebius Pi, 24 May 2017 - 08:09 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

KingCobra, on 23 May 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

Gesus someone finally gets what Im talking about grats.From Day 1 of FP units should have only played units like in the group queues in FP and all the pugs should have had there own queues as mercs so they could play IS or clan and call it good no more crying from ether side about anything and PGI could have not wasted 4 years of failed FP crap mixing PUGS and units in the same battles.

PGI could have had 4 years to develop better things for solo and fp players like better game modes maps ETC.

I've refrained from commenting on any specific posts until now.

Split queues should NEVER happen in CW.

What the player base has been saying for the past 4 years to the players that stubbornly insist on being a handicap to their team hasn't changed. Did you consider that?

It has always been the same exact mantra:

1- Group up with people.
2- Coordinate with your team and use comms (we even got in-game comms to help with that)
3- Don't play like a solo rambo, that's how the team loses.
4- Ask around for proper builds.

Seriously, those have been the exact same 4 points we've been repeating literally since day 1 of CW.

The problem was never the matchmaker, or the maps, or the mechs. It has always been the players. Some players don't want to work as a team. They just want to do their own thing, and want the mode to adapt to them, instead of them adapting to the mode. I know next statement is unpopular, and people may dislike it, but it's the honest truth: That kind of player should not be in CW.

They're literally saying they would rather get stomped and ground to bits every match than to put on a headset, and open TS, or use the in-game VoIP to work with their teammates. We have QP for that attitude, people come to CW expecting something a bit better, or at least less $#!**y.

A second point for why queues shouldn't be split is that if done right, it renders all solo play in CW futile. Since only unit play will count towards planetary capture.

[Spunkmaster]

justcallme A S H, on 21 May 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

So do what I've said 100 times

1. Get on the various TS hubs
2. Find a group, join in (most groups freely take people)
3. Learn/Listen about builds.
also
4. Join a unit - get trained (if you actually do wanna improve properly and, fast).




Well, straight up I'm gonna say it - mostly poor builds/deck. You have zero synergy in that drop deck. You've got extreme range, skirmish and close range, that is just non-functional on many maps. I bet your skill tree selection is also sub-optimal.

ECM being a necessity is a fallacy. It's almost a waste of skill tree points at the moment. Just get full radar derp and it's no different to before. In fact, it's better as Derps got a buff IIRC (if you max it).

Most of my mechs have 30-40 points in firepower. If you think it's worthless, I'd suggest having a rethink because it's imperative for FP IMO.

I don't doubt that my deck is sub-optimal. However, I put it together based on the consensus I found on these forums. If I read it on the forum it has to be true. Right? The deck is supposed to be played from longest range to shortest. As the battle progresses, engagement distances tend to shorten. No? My skill trees are optimized for PUG drops, as I have over 800 hours there and about 10 in FP. I have yet to find the beginning of a consensus on the new tree. When I see a reasonably intelligent discussion, it is rarely mentioned what gameplay the tree is optimized for.

Quote

When I solo, I used to drop call all the time. Lately I've said "are you happy for me to do it". Most people say "yep", yet within 4mins people are doing the opposite (most prevalent in Euro Cycle . So I've essentially given up doing and stick to whoever is in the TS at the time.

Disagree or not is fine but it doesn't change the fact that FP quite simply is not for T4 / T5 players (mostly). The warning screen when you click on FP clearly outlines this.

Most of the complaints from people about FP and getting "rolled", means said players simply don't want to do the 4 points I outlined above. If they did, they would actually do far, far better.

There are plenty of GOOD pilots out there that drop solo, I know most of them in the timezones I play, they understand the mode. However most just don't care, continue to bring crap builds and blame everyone else for their failing.

I don't doubt any of this. I would bet that most pilots I was playing with were T4 & 5. In fact, since I hit T2, I've been dropping with better pilots in the PUG queue. Most of the pilots I've played with in FP would make a saint swear. However, no one has expressed any interest in drop calling. Most of the pilots weren't even using VOIP in game. So, add lack of communication to the list of sins.

I will not be dropping in the solo FP queue any more. I've been hanging out on a couple of TS servers with pilots who actually tend to get it.

Thanks!

[justcallme A S H]

Spunkmaster, on 24 May 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

I don't doubt that my deck is sub-optimal. However, I put it together based on the consensus I found on these forums. If I read it on the forum it has to be true. Right?

And which thread did you read this in? I would like to read it.

I've never seen anyone recommend something like that. Battle progression does not mean range reduction at all.

[Spunkmaster]

TWIAFU, on 22 May 2017 - 04:10 AM, said:

I could list a whole lot of things, without malice, that you could have done better but that would mean self reflection and improvement and only a couple have to do with the game mode at all.

By your post it reads that is is the games fault and you have nothing to learn from your errors but to take your mechs and go to QP.

My error was playing the solo queue. I never "blamed the game". I blame PGI's lack of control, which has lead to a virtual ghost town of FP. I am not the best individual pilot. Never claimed to be. But you will not find a better team player. The biggest problem with the solo queue is an utter lack of team-play. Most, even if they have mics, don't communicate. Was I frustrated? Bet your bippy, I was. If this is the average player's experience, it's no wonder that far too few play CW. That was my point.

[Spunkmaster]

Commander A9, on 22 May 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

Perhaps we're having a failure to communicate...

So let me be inexplicably clear...

Stop pugging in CW, for God's sake!


Your solution to all the "problems" of Community Warfare is to play it as a community. Hence, you should not drop alone. You should drop with a group of friends, or better yet, drop alongside a major unit or team.

There are many, many, many teams of various skill levels and fighting styles who are ready and willing to recruit all types of players. Everyone from hardcore competitive guys who do tournaments like 228th to Community Warfare specialists like 420-Mobility and Kell's Commandos to lore-based units with trials and tests like Clan Wolf International and Jade Falcon's 79th Raptor Talon Cluster has units formed up and regularly play.

Community Warfare is not the time for 12-Rambo pug-life time. Pugs don't get their tags on planets. They don't get on the leaderboards. They don't get the credit, the glory, the speciality, or more importantly, the win.

If you want to "win" and alleviate the "problems" you are having with Community Warfare, do two things:

1. Read this.
2. Read THIS
3. Drop with a team/join a team/form a group using LFG, VOIP, and take command.

Here's a good list of Clan/mercenary teams to start exploring, with Discords and Teamspeaks.

Thank you for these posts. They should be stickied!

[KingCobra]

IraqiWalker, on 24 May 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

I've refrained from commenting on any specific posts until now.

Split queues should NEVER happen in CW.

What the player base has been saying for the past 4 years to the players that stubbornly insist on being a handicap to their team hasn't changed. Did you consider that?

It has always been the same exact mantra:

1- Group up with people.
2- Coordinate with your team and use comms (we even got in-game comms to help with that)
3- Don't play like a solo rambo, that's how the team loses.
4- Ask around for proper builds.

Seriously, those have been the exact same 4 points we've been repeating literally since day 1 of CW.

The problem was never the matchmaker, or the maps, or the mechs. It has always been the players. Some players don't want to work as a team. They just want to do their own thing, and want the mode to adapt to them, instead of them adapting to the mode. I know next statement is unpopular, and people may dislike it, but it's the honest truth: That kind of player should not be in CW.

They're literally saying they would rather get stomped and ground to bits every match than to put on a headset, and open TS, or use the in-game VoIP to work with their teammates. We have QP for that attitude, people come to CW expecting something a bit better, or at least less $#!**y.

A second point for why queues shouldn't be split is that if done right, it renders all solo play in CW futile. Since only unit play will count towards planetary capture.

I disagree you and many others have this philosophy FP is just for units and that's what is killing FP game mode and MWO player base and new player retention. Sure PGI has not made this game new player friendly and FP is a prime example of a failed concept from day1 mixing PUGS and units.

If a player wants to join a unit great let them and play in a unit Vs unit queue like group play or in FP as unit Vs unit only. Personally I think there would be more crying from units having to just play units all the time than pugs playing pugs only in FP.

Units want there binky=(seal clubbing pugs and new players for easy rewards) in FP a lot of units don't give a dang if it was there last drop because every player left FP or MWO or refused to play anything but solo queues.

[justcallme A S H]

Groups. Not units, GROUPS.

If your going to argue something, at least get it right.

And also GROUPS prefer seal clubbing? Stop talking about elephant dung man, just stop. Everyone I play with prefers a good fight over a 48-12 roll. You won't find ONE decent player who backs clubbing. [Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 29 May 2017 - 07:41 PM.
insults / ad hominem, unconstructive

[KingCobra]

justcallme A S H, on 24 May 2017 - 08:22 PM, said:

Groups. Not units, GROUPS.

If your going to argue something, at least get it right.

And also GROUPS prefer seal clubbing? Stop talking about elephant dung man, just stop. Everyone I play with prefers a good fight over a 48-12 roll. You won't find ONE decent player who backs clubbing. [Redacted]

If you don't like seal clubbing new players casuals and pugs like you say most units/groups in fp don't then split the FP queues?

You like many other unit/group players seem intimidated by having to only play other units all the time? You must be scared to death of the competition?

Edited by draiocht, 29 May 2017 - 07:42 PM.
Quote Clean-Up

[Spunkmaster]

justcallme A S H, on 24 May 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

And which thread did you read this in? I would like to read it.

I've never seen anyone recommend something like that. Battle progression does not mean range reduction at all.

I'd have to go back and search all over again and the forum search function ain't so google-like.

I broke my back on the job almost a year ago. I picked up MWO as a way to stay busy during recovery. I'm still not back to work. I have almost 900 hours in the game in 9 months. I have no idea how that compares to other players. It really doesn't matter. That's a lot of time for me to play a game. On top of that, I've spent 100+ hours combing the forums, watching most of the YT videos, trying to decode MetaMechs and have a notebook full of notes.

I've tried futilely to get PUG pilots to play as a team. I joined a casual unit because I was invited to join. We rarely drop more than 3 or 4 of us, if that many are online at one time. I must have still been on pain killers when this PGI FP warning showed itself, because i don't remember seeing it. That's besides the point, though.

I never meant to bash the units. That was not my point. My point was simply that PGI seems to have done everything they could, for over four years, to chase casual players away from the game, to make their game less than fun. I would think that most pilots' early experiences with FP mirror my own. Some may go on to join an active unit. Some may come to the forums to *****. Most will just walk away from FP, if not the game entirely. MWO is really not noob friendly, and also difficult to advance and enjoy as a casual (2-3 hr/week) player. This is a recipe for disaster for a F2P game.

My original post was simply a way to vent my entire frustration with MWO (and perhaps a bit of my own life). I didn't mean to kick up a dust storm within the community. Judging simply by the size of the player base, something is broken. By the looks of this thread and others, even the long-term active players don't really agree what is broken and how to fix it. It just makes me sad, as I've played in the Battletech universe for 35 years and want MWO to be more successful...

Thanks for the constructive feedback. Some of the linked threads should most definitely be stickied!

One final question... Has there been a general consensus reached as to good utilization of the new skill tree, specifically as it relates to FP?

[Commander A9]

You want to know how bad it is?

Tonight, we dropped into a skirmish on Tourmaline Desert.

Drop commander himself put out a standing order: No one speaks a word, not even to call a target, direct the unit, or call for assistance.

Dead silence throughout the entire match.

We brawled extremely aggressively, to the point that it was over by the time we had erased their first wave.

48-12, our favor. Opposition didn't kill their 12th mech until the very end. I and another pilot were never killed. I got over 1,500 damage, 6 kills, and the top match score. AND I was alt-tabbing out occasionally trying to do tech support for a colleague!

When the other team isn't even using communications and still crushes you, trust me, it isn't the mechs, unless you royally screwed up in the skill tree. Even then, that's no excuse for terrible gameplay.

Edited by Commander A9, 24 May 2017 - 09:03 PM.

[Alaric Hasek]

It's not possible, because as anyone and everyone on these forums will tell you: Clans are OP. No Clan 'mech can ever be destroyed by an IS 'mech because there is that much imbalance.

Hyperbole aside, it's teamwork that wins games. I've watched 228 drop in 'mechs with just flamers and still get kills just because they bothered to work together.

Spunkmaster, on 21 May 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

Who wants to play on a mixed drop ship against an enemy of an entire unit? We just lost 13 to 48. It's not fun... at all. I score almost twice as better in solo pug queue. It's not fun. No one improved or learned anything valuable. All it provides is fodder for the units. Why should anyone bother?

Let me add, that it is now time to even up the drop decks again. Since the May 17th patch, I have seen IS stomp after IS stomp. How long do a bunch of HBRs stand up against a BLR rush? Not long at all...

Edited by Alaric Hasek, 24 May 2017 - 09:21 PM.

[Alaric Hasek]

Then why do they do it? If they REALLY didn't want to club seals, they would stop their spawn camping and say to the PUGs. "Here, let's use this time to make you a better player" and make it into an impromptu training session. That would make the game more interesting for everyone. Players in comp units don't need XP nor C-bills. They have plenty of each or they wouldn't be comp players with metamechs. I've never seen that happen once in a PUG-stomp.

justcallme A S H, on 24 May 2017 - 08:22 PM, said:

Groups. Not units, GROUPS.

If your going to argue something, at least get it right.

And also GROUPS prefer seal clubbing? Stop talking about elephant dung man, just stop. Everyone I play with prefers a good fight over a 48-12 roll. You won't find ONE decent player who backs clubbing. That 'view' is just that of the uneducated/bad player base, IE, you.

[Commander A9]

Alaric Hasek, on 24 May 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

Then why do they do it? If they REALLY didn't want to club seals, they would stop their spawn camping and say to the PUGs. "Here, let's use this time to make you a better player" and make it into an impromptu training session. That would make the game more interesting for everyone. Players in comp units don't need XP nor C-bills. They have plenty of each or they wouldn't be comp players with metamechs. I've never seen that happen once in a PUG-stomp.

I can't even begin to construct a logical argument from this due to the fact that your premises for your argument make absolutely zero sense.

I'm going to try my best here:
-If teams don't want to club seals...
-Then team will stop spawn-camping
-Then team will host training session
-Then game will become more interesting

So if I'm interpreting you correctly, if the better teams do not want to seal-club, then they will stop rushing enemy spawns. THEN they will host a training session for random players, which will make the game more interesting.

Let me tell you why this is horribly wrong.

1. It's not about clubbing seals, it's about winning the match, regardless of who the enemy is.
2a. Stopping in mid-push when you have the momentum to run the enemy off the map ensures heavy casualties and a loss.
2b. Stopping in mid-push and asking for the battle to end while it is still in progress will never, ever happen for any reason with perhaps the exception of zellbrigen-based duels, and even then, only in very specific circumstances.
2c. Why the hell is it the teams' responsibility to 'make the game interesting' or even to 'train the pugs?' I'm not paid by PGI for that!
2d. Why the hell would I take the time out of my very limited drop time to stop working to win, give up my match, my battle, and my potential victory to train someone I don't know and have no clear idea as to how he's going to receive my training or what his reaction is going to be!?
3. Many pug players refuse to listen to orders mid-drop now, so what chance do they have of following training instructions from veteran players?
4. How will training the pugs who have demonstrated that they do not want to be trained ever going to make the game 'more interesting?' You can't train someone to improve their abilities if they don't wish to get better, and are complacent with what limited skills they have.
5. Players in competitive units DO need the XP and C-Bills because doctrine changes all the time!

What you're asking for is for teams to essentially stop playing Community Warfare as it is now and break out a training session IN MID DROP. That is never ever happening!

In the end, it doesn't matter who the enemy is.

If you give up your spawn, or your base, we're taking it from you. Plain and simple.

We don't care who we fight-but we are here to win.

Edited by Commander A9, 24 May 2017 - 09:46 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

KingCobra, on 24 May 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

If you don't like seal clubbing new players casuals and pugs like you say most units/groups in fp don't then split the FP queues?

You like many other unit/group players seem intimidated by having to only play other units all the time? You must be scared to death of the competition?

I'm intimidated by playing other units/groups?




You've just confirmed, with absolute fact, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Stick to QP... But then, even there I triple your output, no surprise really because you just can't admit you're bad.

Alaric Hasek, on 24 May 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

Then why do they do it? If they REALLY didn't want to club seals, they would stop their spawn camping and say to the PUGs. "Here, let's use this time to make you a better player" and make it into an impromptu training session. That would make the game more interesting for everyone. Players in comp units don't need XP nor C-bills. They have plenty of each or they wouldn't be comp players with metamechs. I've never seen that happen once in a PUG-stomp.

1. Bring bad builds and get camped, your problem.

2. Fastest way to the inevitable.

3. Because I play comp means I have loads of cbills? Absolute fallacy. I need every cbill/mechbay I can get. Playing comp doesn't mean you're loaded, I've only been playing about 18 months. Some people like old potato King Cobra have been around 3x as long, but would rather cry then learn.

[Leone]

Actually Commander, you are incorrect.

When the defenders are spawn camping and get overrun, it is a perfect learning oppourtunity for them, and excellent training.

Heck, one of the reasons I joined Kell's Commandos was they'd always give advice and suggestions when I was goin' up against em. My build decisions and playstyle developed around going head to head against 'em in CW during the first iteration. The problem isn't that we're not willing to train our opposition.

It's that we offer life fire training exercises, some of the best available, and few are willing to pay attention or try to learn.

You can lead the horse to water...

~Leone.

[Baba_Yaga]

Colonel Presumptuous, on 21 May 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

Just lost a 16/46 myself, was a pug v pug but their entire side was battlemasters... we just couldnt kill em.

Could have stayed back at spawn, but wheres the fun in that, heck once we did stay back in spawn they just sat back and let the clock run dry since they where up 20 kills to us, once they they got into spawn we where basically being killed before we hit the ground.

Thing is, this isnt an isolate match... its appears to always be a Battlemaster zerg by the IS since the patch. so yeah can we have the tonnage restrictions removed for clans and maybe some of the other nerfs we've had over the years removed. if they can bring 2 battle masters AND heavies... we should be able to too

I earned 271k in in that match, i can earn 220k in a QP and have 2-3 of them done before the FW match is over... at this rate clans gonna just abandon FW and its something i enjoyed, some times we'd get stomped other times we'd stomp and a good number of times it would be a close match... i like the skill tree, but its ruined FW with the old tonnage restrictions in place. (My own drop deck is 2 85 tonner assaults a SHC and a Mist Lynx would love to replace the SHC with a heavy or maybe one of my 85tonners with a 100 tonner)

Now its just Battlemasters as far as the eye can see...

Is the clans complaining, after the *** kicking IS got in the tukayid event, say it isn't so.......

[naterist]

just split the ques. groups want coordinated fights, solos want to feel involved. there are many options to do this. for example make scouting the solo que, and invasion for groups, or split the ques and give the solo que its own effect on the tug of war.

fact is the two groups, solos and group players, need to exist in fw simultaneously, and maybe even grow a symbiotic relationship with each other. as it is right now, their clashing, which is driving down our already limited population, when they could be seperated and nurtured, so the population can stop shrinking.

but it all breaks down in to a population issue. id argue that the loyalist only events should be limited to small group size, see how that does for keeping the population alive. big groups in normal is v clan que, faction-conflict que for the guys still in training wheels. then those solos/small groups may graduate up to the big-league conflicts when they're on their feet, and understand how respawns effect gameplay and strategy better.

Edited by naterist, 24 May 2017 - 11:25 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Hamerclone, on 24 May 2017 - 10:41 PM, said:

Is the clans complaining, after the *** kicking IS got in the tukayid event, say it isn't so.......

54% to 46% overall totals.

Clan didn't give an "*** kicking" at all. That is actually a very close end result.