86 replies to this topic

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Ajantise, on 28 May 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

Because PGI does not know or want to balance IS and Clan (Why? I don't care anymore), why not give us IS only random battles so we can bridge the time to the civil war?

I want to play, but now the game for me is just not playable.
In this state, the game for IS only players is just not fair.
Almost double the weapons, indestructible side torso, longer range, smaller number of slots....
For IS only player its just like playing on "very hard" with a penalty of 65%.

I think that IS only random drops would be very popular now, and bring a lot of the players back.

very good idea, also a clan only mechs grand arena battle as described in books of the blood name battles. A total free for all with 24 mechs in a giant circle with voice comms open to everyone.

[MechaBattler]

They are trying to balance it. Do you not see all the Clan players whining about every little change that's made? Remember the "crippling" crit change? Or engine desync. Plus new tech is coming. And they're going to rebalance energy weapons in June. Which could go either way honestly, fingers crossed they don't destroy LPL for the IS.

[Monkey Lover]

Ced Riggs, on 28 May 2017 - 03:24 AM, said:

No. Why segregate players based on your personal preferences? Even the last Tuk-Tuk event showed that the balance is relatively close (~5% difference) and IS is tankier for where clams are more damage. With all due respect, if you feel like IS mechs are in general plain worse than clan mechs, you might be part of the equation leading to that result.

It not really 5%. units smashed pugs on both side and due to this it kept the numbers up.

Not even counting IS Had a tonnage advantage and Is was doing better in scouting again because of tonnage advantage.

[Coolant]

I don't understand the posts about IS being inferior. Are some IS mechs? Absolutely. But there are plenty out there that have insane armour quirks, and many still have abundant weapon quirks - more than makes up for the difference in technologies.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Coolant, on 28 May 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

I don't understand the posts about IS being inferior. Are some IS mechs? Absolutely. But there are plenty out there that have insane armour quirks, and many still have abundant weapon quirks - more than makes up for the difference in technologies.

It seems a lot of guys are comparing Kodiaks to Urbanmechs for their sense of Balance.

[Ajantise]

MechaBattler, on 28 May 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

They are trying to balance it. Do you not see all the Clan players whining about every little change that's made? Remember the "crippling" crit change? Or engine desync. Plus new tech is coming. And they're going to rebalance energy weapons in June. Which could go either way honestly, fingers crossed they don't destroy LPL for the IS.

Its because the Clan is so OP even if you nerf it, it will still be OP. And you take less of a hit if you are still in advantageous position. IS vs IS is the only way to have a fair game. Or to balance the two sides, but that will never happen. Because PGI is a small firm, a big one, because of lore, bla , bla... ;-)

[FireStoat]

vibrant, on 28 May 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

I want random stock mech quickplay, where you select a weight class and get dumped in an entirely random stock mech from in that range. I think neither of us will get what we want. ^^

If this was allowed with the sole exception being the modification of armor tonnage, ammunition, and heat sinks, I'd be all over it hardcore. I (and other players wanting this) mention the above changes as 'stock' mechs were largely configured for table top use in matches that lasted like, 9-12 turns max. Thus the stock low ammo counts.

[MechaBattler]

Ajantise, on 28 May 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Its because the Clan is so OP even if you nerf it, it will still be OP. And you take less of a hit if you are still in advantageous position. IS vs IS is the only way to have a fair game. Or to balance the two sides, but that will never happen. Because PGI is a small firm, a big one, because of lore, bla , bla... ;-)

That doesn't seem very open minded. Besides we don't have the population to divide up the queue more. Maybe as a weekend event. Especially with the Civil War update coming up. It would be interesting.

[Ced Riggs]

So, at the bottom line, there are people who can neither pick a different robbit than orange cockpit ones, because of their religion. And the blue cockpit robbits are magical because they sold their souls to the devil. Okay, then I won't try to argue with facts. IS mechs have half the guns of a clan mech, clan mech have more ST armor, and are also nigh invincible, and IS mechs are utterly powerless.

Is this some sort of victim complex fetish? Because, last time I tried any of my various Locust/Javelin/Bushwacker/Griffin/Centurion, life was pretty good.

[Pixel Hunter]

i do feel that well fit IS mechs can more than hold their own against clan mechs, but when clans get to make premade drops etc. balance gets bad

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Gimpy117, on 28 May 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

i do feel that well fit IS mechs can more than hold their own against clan mechs, but when clans get to make premade drops etc. balance gets bad

When IS drops as a premade its even worse with their ability to field two 12 man waves of assault mechs, its rare a clan team will even get through that. Either way that's just teamwork vs pugs more than imbalance between the factions though.

[Ced Riggs]

Dakota1000, on 28 May 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

When IS drops as a premade its even worse with their ability to field two 12 man waves of assault mechs, its rare a clan team will even get through that. Either way that's just teamwork vs pugs more than imbalance between the factions though.

Dakota, I see you are a Liao merc. Now, naturally, as a non-loyalist you don't get all the memos, but you really should stick to the party line. IS needs buffs, clans OP, and clan chassis should be ashamed. Also, removed form the game. All clan tech, poof, gone. That would be better. Go on. I do hope, though, no further reminders are necessary?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Ced Riggs, on 28 May 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

Dakota, I see you are a Liao merc. Now, naturally, as a non-loyalist you don't get all the memos, but you really should stick to the party line. IS needs buffs, clans OP, and clan chassis should be ashamed. Also, removed form the game. All clan tech, poof, gone. That would be better. Go on. I do hope, though, no further reminders are necessary?

Heh, I used to be a JF loyalist, but went to where the pay was nice after FW4 dropped. Been mostly Smoke Jag and Liao swapping every few weeks.

If I'm honest, IS tends to be easy mode, so few people even understand quirks and good builds with IS mechs, then I show up in some dropdeck that tanks like a deck 50% heavier, has higher DPS, laser durations 15-25% lower than normal that were already lower than Clans, outranging Clan mechs on Alpine, Boreal, and Polar. Poor clanners can't even kill me in a 1v1 without overheating or cutting their DPS to 1.

All the while I get to say "Clans OP" as I rack up thousands of points of damage and laugh as they fail to even blow off my deadside and make more money per match because IS has 6 factions instead of 4 and all the lore guys flock to Kurita, Davion, and Steiner, leaving Liao, Marik, and sometimes FRR free.

Why I even swap sides anymore is beyond me.

[Ced Riggs]

Dakota1000, on 28 May 2017 - 10:43 PM, said:

Why I even swap sides anymore is beyond me.

Because Tater McDeepfry has clearly identified clans as OP, and that's the line we are sticking with. So, if a lore build Grasshopper with 1 LL/4 ML/1 LRM5 cannot stand up to a meta-build Goose/Pepsi Poptart at long range, clearly, the Inner Sphere (as a whole) needs buffs and clans need nerfs. Or, implicit removal, thinly veiled by an "IS only" game mode.

Meanwhile, Javelins with decent builds rack up 600++ damage/match, Battlemasters beat clams at laser vomitting, and taking down IS fatties from the front spells suicide for the hardiest of clam mechs because we cannot pair for durability. But hey. Let's talk about balance without talking about actual numbers, because those numbers are fake, and the only thing that matters, is, that a Kintaro with 5x LRM5 cannot kill a Brawl-Timberwolf head-on, and that's OP.

Because Clans have double the weapons. Like the Summoner, a 70 ton mech, which boats two ERPPCs on it's strongest loadout. That's 12 tons and 4 slots, all invested into the bristling amount of 2 (written: two) guns! Or the immensely overpowered Hellbringer. What a beast, running a grand total of 5 (FIVE) lasers at 65 tons, with no JJs. That's 15 tons (HOLY HELL) devoted to weapons. There is just no way an IS mech at 65 to 70 tons could match any of that and still run an STD engine.

... wait, the Cataphract runs about 25 tons of weaponry? Large ballistics and tons of lasers with massive structure quirks pushing it up to assault tier durability? So, a comparable IS mechs goes signific- ... slightly slower, at 70kph vs. 80kph, but carries almost double the weapon load, and is more durable? Mhmm. No, scratch that. That can't be right.

Clans OP. Remove clams.

Edited by Ced Riggs, 28 May 2017 - 11:04 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Ced Riggs, on 28 May 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

Clans OP. Remove clams.

You would have loved my "Clans OP" topic I made a few weeks ago during the Tuk3 event when 90% of the forum was crying about clans needing to be nerfed because the cumulative bar for wins moved to 100% for clans while discounting that the clans, namely smoke jaguar, was saturated in high tier merc teams and that even then they still were only winning 5% more on average.

Even had someone telling me that the Dragon was not tanky when even back before the skill tree gigabuffed it further so it tanks like an Atlas did before the skill tree it was still as tanky as a Clan 80 tonner and also ran a STD engine.

Though for the most part I just wanted IS people to stop using the bad mechs and start using the good ones so they can stop crying about how OP clans are and instead cry about how weak some of their IS mechs are so that weak mechs can get better so we don't have a boatload of terribad mechs around.

[Ced Riggs]

Dakota1000, on 28 May 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

Though for the most part I just wanted IS people to stop using the bad mechs and start using the good ones so they can stop crying about how OP clans are and instead cry about how weak some of their IS mechs are so that weak mechs can get better so we don't have a boatload of terribad mechs around.

As long as people don't understand that certain mechs and/or certain builds are worse than others (LRMs in general, for example), people aren't able to understand balance. Inner Sphere right now is doing fine. A lot better, actually. The gap to the clans is almost gone, and in many situations, IS chassis have the advantage. What is skewing the picture is lore builds, potato builds, and really bad IS mechs dragged into matches - rather than being ignored and proving by metrics that these mechs are disliked due to performance.

It's like Warhammer Black Widow vs. Cataphract 4X. Both can run quad AC5. Well, one of them does it well, the other is ****. It's low hard points on a massive torso with a 255 engine cap. Thing's tanky, okay. That's it. Maybe lift the engine cap, make the lower arm actuators optional, etc. Not my business. But the WRH-BW is a good mech, and the CTF-4X isn't. Same applies to a shitload of other mechs. But, as long as people stay glued to **** mechs and **** builds, they'll fall short of the current potential and strength of IS chassis.

[Dogstar]

Wow you two really came out of the same batch of clan test tubes didn't you.

[Ced Riggs]

Dogstar, on 29 May 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

Wow you two really came out of the same batch of clan test tubes didn't you.

Dakota, who plays as IS for Faction War, and me, who plays a shitload IS mechs in QP? Not sure if the clans would be too happy with that. I find it refreshing to not be alone with the observation that, for example, IS LPL an IS ERLL are better than their clan counterparts, though. Interestingly enough, mostly IS players try to talk their mechs and options down, not entirely different from professional victims.

I mean, it's cool. I benefit. Just has nothing to do with balance when the IS LPL is essentially PPFLD. Now, before anyone pulls the "outlier" card - if you can list multiple outliers, and combine these outliers into multiple highly effective builds, they aren't outliers anymore.

[Anjian]

I may be sporting a Clan Jade Falcon loyalist badge but my favorite mech to take out on QP is Legend Killer.

[Wayland]

IS vs IS battles would be awesome, then couldn't care less about balancing the tech. But clan players wouldn't like it. If IS had the option to drop against IS or clan. Clans would be ghost dropping forever