196 replies to this topic

[R Valentine]

People who don't lock are potatoes. Plain and simple. The fact that they have to make excuses for it is just another reason why they are still potatoes. French fried and everything.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Vellron2005, on 31 May 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

So, as far as I can see from the posts here, there are 2 kinds of people:

1) Those that press the "R" button to share the info, and to look for the target's weak spots

2) Those who are too selfish to press the "R" button, feel they don't need help, support, want to secure the kill for themselves by any means necessary, and basically don't care about a target's weak spots, and god forbid they should secure locks for LRM users...

This, to me, translates neatly into real life.. there are always the selfish people who want all the glory, business promotions, money, food, or whatever, for themselves, and there are those who will help a stranger by paying for their kid's birthday cake when they can't afford it themselves (referring to a famous internet story here).

I guess that's life.. some people just diss on everyone else who they feel are "beneath them", while some people realize those "beneath them" are the ones holding them up.

Sad really.. but such is the human condition.

Personally, I don't event position my crosshairs over an enemy mech without my finger hitting that controversial "R" button..

It's just second nature..

Why do you think I have two types of MWO players? The Real Team Player i.e. ones that support each and every mech to ensure that their team wins and their opposite member: Mr. Solo Glory Hound that is only a team player in name only.

[ice trey]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

Some people deliberately avoid pressing R because it means that LRM boats are deprived of targets. With damage glow, you can see where you hit them...

If you starve the buzzards long enough, they move on to scavenge somewhere else.

This mentality is exactly why PGI should have treated LRMs like they're treated in Tabletop - a direct fire weapon with the alternative option to fire indirectly.

LRMs as they are need someone else to help out and are useless for split second shots that can be taken with ballistics, PPCs, and even SRMs. Helping out is not going to happen with the eSports mentality that focuses almost every last reward on securing the kills. LRMs as they are will only work if kills are rendered irrelevant and the whole game focuses on Wins/Losses. It's doubly so with so much terrain designed specifically to counter LRM fire, and so much equipment and former modules designed to counter them.

I would complain that they've taken a story-focused setting and mission based gameplay to turn it into a sub-par arena shooter not unlike how Microsoft took on the Shadowrun franchise, but that ship sailed a LONG time ago.

Edited by ice trey, 01 June 2017 - 05:52 AM.

[627]

I'm still not sure why this isn't working automated. I know at some point PGI implemented this, if you have no target and shoot a mech in range, it becomes your target, the game presses R for you.
but this only works one time.

This should be an always on feature. If you have no target and there's an enemy mech in range and "near" your crosshair, the game targets it for you, every time. And if you deliberately press R to unlock the target but don't get a new one in, say 3 seconds, the game relocks the target (given it is still in sight).

This would tremendously help new players or people who are just too lazy or overwhelmed from fighting.

[El Bandito]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

you prefer team mates not sharing armor? Taking a 12 man push with 4 standing out of sight? Do you feel that is the best way to play the game?

I prefer not to lower my chances of victory by idiotically not locking onto the enemy when I am capable of doing it. You made a dumb post and compounded your folly by writing even dumber posts to justify it.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ice trey, on 01 June 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

This mentality is exactly why PGI should have treated LRMs like they're treated in Tabletop - a direct fire weapon with the alternative option to fire indirectly.

LRMs as they are need someone else to help out and are useless for split second shots that can be taken with ballistics, PPCs, and even SRMs. That's not going to happen with the eSports mentality that focuses almost every last reward on securing the kills. LRMs as they are will only work if kills are rendered irrelevant and the whole game focuses on Wins/Losses.

Overall, I agree with your post, except in TT LRMs are an indirect fire weapon even when they are in LOS. It says so in the weapon description.

http://www.sarna.net...g_Range_Missile

[Archer Magnus]

I have mine set to the downward scroll wheel, I am the king of spotting! THE KING of spotting

[ice trey]

James The Fox Dixon, on 01 June 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

Overall, I agree with your post, except in TT LRMs are an indirect fire weapon even when they are in LOS. It says so in the weapon description.

http://www.sarna.net...g_Range_Missile

Mechanically though, it doesn't require that you keep LOS for two turns to fire without an additional +4 to hit modifier, the best way I can describe MWO's LRMs.

Fluffwise, MRMs were supposed to make it easier to hit targets through sheer numbers of dumbfire missiles help green pilots be more effective on the field, but we also know that's not how they work, either.

Edited by ice trey, 01 June 2017 - 06:08 AM.

[Vxheous]

*Checks stats of those saying LRMs are a good weapon*
*Checks stats of those saying LRMs are a bad weapon*

Results check out. LRMs are a pretty bad weapon

[Khobai]

Quote

like it was in CB - you did need to hit r so that your weapons did focus faster - reason why ECM was a ultimate invulnerable tool in the first months.

except ECM should not even grant stealth

that was the mistake PGI made. leaving ECM a broken mess that does things it shouldnt even do.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 01 June 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

*Checks stats of those saying LRMs are a good weapon*
*Checks stats of those saying LRMs are a bad weapon*

Results check out. LRMs are a pretty bad weapon

Source of those stats ?

If it's not PGI's data and telemetry about the usage and results of LRMs, it's just smoke blowing from your rear exhaust, or a veiled insult.

Because I *know* that my stats are bad ... but if you check my stats with PPCs using that logic, you'd conclude that PPCs are horrible useless wastes of tonnage.

[Vxheous]

Lorcryst NySell, on 01 June 2017 - 06:21 AM, said:

Source of those stats ?

If it's not PGI's data and telemetry about the usage and results of LRMs, it's just smoke blowing from your rear exhaust, or a veiled insult.

Because I *know* that my stats are bad ... but if you check my stats with PPCs using that logic, you'd conclude that PPCs are horrible useless wastes of tonnage.

W/L K/D and average match score stats for everyone is listed on a monthly basis. The bulk of the people claiming LRMs are a good weapon are on the lower spectrum of all three metrics listed, while those claiming LRMs are a bad weapon are on the higher spectrum of those same three metrics. Do I trust the opinion of the statistically better player, or the opinion of the statistically worse player?

Oh, and LRMs vs Meta (Direct fire) has been tested, with the top players in the game at the time on both sides:

https://mwomercs.com...h-lrms-vs-meta/

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 01 June 2017 - 06:26 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ice trey, on 01 June 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

Mechanically though, it doesn't require that you keep LOS for two turns to fire without an additional +4 to hit modifier, the best way I can describe MWO's LRMs.

Fluffwise, MRMs were supposed to make it easier to hit targets through sheer numbers of dumbfire missiles help green pilots be more effective on the field, but we also know that's not how they work, either.

Oh I agree with you, but I pointed out that the weapon is still fired indirectly like mortars and artillery are in TT. LOS doesn't change them from indirect to direct weapons. It just says that you can see them or not while giving rules on how to handle weapons that fire indirectly on targets out of LOS.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 01 June 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

W/L K/D and average match score stats for everyone is listed on a monthly basis. The bulk of the people claiming LRMs are a good weapon are on the lower spectrum of all three metrics listed, while those claiming LRMs are a bad weapon are on the higher spectrum of those same three metrics. Do I trust the opinion of the statistically better player, or the opinion of the statistically worse player?

Oh, and LRMs vs Meta (Direct fire) has been tested, with the top players in the game at the time on both sides:

https://mwomercs.com...h-lrms-vs-meta/

Ahhh yes, the META ... the Most Horrible Thing that can happen to a game : players that want so much epeen that they will completely ignore anything that isn't overperforming, broken, or optimal.

Where is the fun in seeing the same builds on the same 'mechs using the same "tactic" of peek and poke for hours on end ? Watching paint dry is more diverse ... at least there's some variation and blotches drying faster !

Finally, please note that I never said LRMs were "good", just "valid" ... if anything, they need a buff to make them competitive, instead of shaming and hating.

[metallio]

Luminis, on 31 May 2017 - 09:05 PM, said:

The only time I intentionally don't hit R is after reading some "hold locks plz I r lurmboat" in team chat. My team's shot at winning went straight to hell when those lurmers are assigned to it, so who cares if it takes another hit?

Unless you're in an extremely high class comp group that LRM boat is going to bomb the cr@p out of your enemies. If it does less damage than you then good on ya but there's no way in hades that your shot at winning is going straight to hell simply by having a boat on your team in quick play. Especially since there's a boat on every team more or less every game...so what are you talking about? Are you so bad that without a full 11 man backup squad your team is destined to lose because you suck so much? I doubt it; usually a terribad player or two doesn't change a thing about the end result...heck, a DC usually doesn't change the end result most of the time.

Are you mad about the <10% of games that are close and you would have won if that LRM boat was more effective? ...ok then are you p!ssed that you don't have Proton on your team every game? What's wrong with you that your world view is so pessimistic that you're mad about someone shooting mechs with you doing 10% less damage than you would with your preferred loadout? What, you think it's a bigger difference than that? Prove it.

[Weeny Machine]

Vellron2005, on 31 May 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

So, as far as I can see from the posts here, there are 2 kinds of people:

1) Those that press the "R" button to share the info, and to look for the target's weak spots

2) Those who are too selfish to press the "R" button, feel they don't need help, support, want to secure the kill for themselves by any means necessary, and basically don't care about a target's weak spots, and god forbid they should secure locks for LRM users...

This, to me, translates neatly into real life.. there are always the selfish people who want all the glory, business promotions, money, food, or whatever, for themselves, and there are those who will help a stranger by paying for their kid's birthday cake when they can't afford it themselves (referring to a famous internet story here).

I guess that's life.. some people just diss on everyone else who they feel are "beneath them", while some people realize those "beneath them" are the ones holding them up.

Sad really.. but such is the human condition.

Personally, I don't event position my crosshairs over an enemy mech without my finger hitting that controversial "R" button..

It's just second nature..

This goes both ways. You also have lurmers who sit safely behind a rock while the other mechs take the hits. Of course they share no armour and their is an automatic concentration of fire on certain mechs which means they will go down sooner. This in turn means less firepower for your team and a probable loss of the match. I cannot count the matches where the last 2-3 surviving mechs were lurmers with nearly full armour. Of course those matches were lost but the lurmers got a high personal score. And it seems that the epeen is the most important thing.

Point is: there are black sheeps among non-lurmers and lurmers

Personally I have enough of whining of...
"Keep your locks ffs" - yeah, it doesn't matter that I have to dodge shots
"Why do you switch locks all the time" - yeah, it doesn't matter that I want to know where the weak parts of my enemy are

Edited by Bush Hopper, 01 June 2017 - 07:23 AM.

[Humpday]

Its beyond me how the R button isn't just a natural reaction.
Legs stripped, blow it off, KDK-3s shoulder open, blow it off...CT on that DIrewwale secure the kill...

Thats how you kill secure, thats how you score well, information. Not to mention it just helps your teams out...What happens if you have an lrm boat on your team? That dude may find your hard lock and blot out the sun(300 reference) with missles, if you happen to be in trouble, someone will likely come over just because they see a red thing on their radar.

End of the match? 1 v 2,3,4? R button, they have to be hurt, systematically break off legs, shoulders, kill the weakest, remove his firepower.... ect ect ect...

[Weeny Machine]

Humpday, on 01 June 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

Its beyond me how the R button isn't just a natural reaction.
Legs stripped, blow it off, KDK-3s shoulder open, blow it off...CT on that DIrewwale secure the kill...

Thats how you kill secure, thats how you score well, information. Not to mention it just helps your teams out...What happens if you have an lrm boat on your team? That dude may find your hard lock and blot out the sun(300 reference) with missles, if you happen to be in trouble, someone will likely come over just because they see a red thing on their radar.

End of the match? 1 v 2,3,4? R button, they have to be hurt, systematically break off legs, shoulders, kill the weakest, remove his firepower.... ect ect ect...

Sums it up nicely.

[Coolant]

I agree with OP, and I try to lock targets...I think one reason people don't is because they don't want to give a free ride to LRM boats that don't even need to come out of cover or see an enemy to do damage to a mech. Perhaps if LRM boats expose themselves to enemy fire you may have more people willing to lock targets.

Edited by Coolant, 01 June 2017 - 07:56 AM.

[Wyald Katt]

And it helps lights make sure they're not running face first into a Streak boat!