196 replies to this topic

[Michael Knell]

I have always held lock with R, for the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. After playing a few matches where I was forced to brawl with assaults alone in a Marauder, call for help numerous times, hold lock and get stomped while my lurmer scum team mates are twiddling their thumbs, I no longer hold locks. I will do an initial lock to see the damage info, as soon as I see that I break lock. I don't mind lrm boats in team, hell I always prefer to have a pair of dedicated LRM support mechs like a Catapult or Mad Dog in team, but the thing I mentioned and also that I see assaults jam packed with lurms and spattering of medium lasers (OR JUST FREAKING LURMS) sitting a couple of hundred meters from the front line in pristine condition riles me so ******* fierce.

[Dago Red]

Lorcryst NySell, on 03 June 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

Hey !

As a potato, I'm not proud of it, rather ashamed, and I want to get better !

I'm willing to learn by example, by watching, by anything ... because I cannot stand to be a glorified bag of points anymore

With much effort one can work up to be a spicier root vegetable.

I personally consider myself a radish.

[Willard Phule]

But....I am a potato. I can't do a thing unless you facetank damage to give me targets to fire skill rockets at. It just is.

[Brain Cancer]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

Some people deliberately avoid pressing R because it means that LRM boats are deprived of targets. With damage glow, you can see where you hit them...

If you starve the buzzards long enough, they move on to scavenge somewhere else.

I love seeing players like this on the other side.

They make my job easier, I know they won't get support quickly when I start bombing them with LRMs. Indeed, they make sure that nobody knows they're engaged because there's no red square drawing the PUGs like flies, or pointing out that I have the attention of one of their team.

They're the people that if they get cut off, they die a lonely, sad death unless someone happens to be looking their way as the enemy chews them a new one. Alone.

Thanks for being you. People like you are what enemy LRM boats salivate over- a target that won't draw lots of attention while being killed.

[Brain Cancer]

Michael Knell, on 03 June 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

I have always held lock with R, for the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. After playing a few matches where I was forced to brawl with assaults alone in a Marauder, call for help numerous times, hold lock and get stomped while my lurmer scum team mates are twiddling their thumbs, I no longer hold locks. I will do an initial lock to see the damage info, as soon as I see that I break lock. I don't mind lrm boats in team, hell I always prefer to have a pair of dedicated LRM support mechs like a Catapult or Mad Dog in team, but the thing I mentioned and also that I see assaults jam packed with lurms and spattering of medium lasers (OR JUST FREAKING LURMS) sitting a couple of hundred meters from the front line in pristine condition riles me so ******* fierce.

These are the same players that will be bad in anything. It's just most obvious with this kind of build.

No, really. They won't be aggressive in a missile boat, they won't be aggressive, ever. It's just more obvious when you're lame with LRMs, but they're also the ones that will "snipe" at well past long range with ERLLs and ERPPCs or AC/2's or whatever keeps them out of range and "safe" scratching your opponent's paint while doing virtually nothing effective.

For me, a session where I don't get a brawling LRM kill is a boring, lame session.

[Brain Cancer]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 01 June 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

W/L K/D and average match score stats for everyone is listed on a monthly basis. The bulk of the people claiming LRMs are a good weapon are on the lower spectrum of all three metrics listed, while those claiming LRMs are a bad weapon are on the higher spectrum of those same three metrics. Do I trust the opinion of the statistically better player, or the opinion of the statistically worse player?

Oh, and LRMs vs Meta (Direct fire) has been tested, with the top players in the game at the time on both sides:

https://mwomercs.com...h-lrms-vs-meta/

I'd be the first to claim LRMs are a bad weapon, and I use them constantly.

The problem is that there should be no bad weapons. A bad weapon should be improved in some manner, as it means there's a flaw in it's design.

Said it many times: Change unguided fire to a flat horizontal shot (so LRMs can be dumbfired into tunnels and such), increase base velocity, normalize clustering to LRM 10 levels for all launcher sizes. This would go a long way towards taking LRMs from "bad" into something that you have to work around it's serious flaws to manage decent games with.

[OrmsbyGore]

James The Fox Dixon, on 01 June 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

Son, I've run one of the most successful ComStar NA TS groups for a year before you even started playing. When I ran groups, I had a 90% Win/Loss ratio and I pushed the meta which other people copied. I had people waiting in line for hours just to drop with me because I was that successful. Yes, I used in depth tactics and strategies while knowing every inch of all the maps to win. I also used all the different tools to win using combined arms. So, if you are going to say I know nothing about this game that I played since Closed Beta then you are delusional.

Ummm, wouldn't your extraordinary skills in this game be reflected in your stats? Average damage? average match score? K/D and W/L ratio?

[Gyrok]

OrmsbyGore, on 04 June 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

Ummm, wouldn't your extraordinary skills in this game be reflected in your stats? Average damage? average match score? K/D and W/L ratio?

You should know by now that Davions are garbage.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 08:35 PM, said:

I am also preventing them from hitting me in the back while they try to kill the target I spent all the time killing...

As a LRM pilot, I normally get more KMDD's and damage done softening up targets that guys like you then finish off. I deal the damage softening them up with my LRM's so brawlers like you can finish them off despite doing little damage. You know what else? I am fine with that. I am a team player. If I get more damage done than anyone else (which happens a lot) but get no kills because you brawlers finished off the mechs I had spent time and tons of ammo destroying before I could (which also happens a lot), then I am fine with that. We all have a role to play. Brawlers are like warriors while LRM boats are like archers. Play your role as best as you can and let everyone else play theirs. Furthermore, as Manfred von Richthofen (aka the Red Baron) said: "It does not matter who gets the kill just so long as victory is achieved."

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 04 June 2017 - 08:42 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Jep Jorgensson, on 04 June 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

Brawlers are like warriors while LRM boats are like archers. Play your role as best as you can and let everyone else play theirs. Furthermore, as Manfred von Richthofen (aka the Red Baron) said: "It does not matter who gets the kill just so long as victory is achieved."

you do know that historically, archers couldn't do jack to a knight right?

bowmen in the past were effective in taking out levies and the like. not knights. arrows literally could not penetrate plate armor sufficiently to even injure the warrior beneath. only the english longbows (at the top of my head) actually posed a danger to french knights.

similarly in mwo, lurms are extremely effective against potatoes. and only potatoes. maybe it's art imitating life, but it's really apt how both in real life and in the game, archers are only good at "taking out trash" and perform poorly against anyone else.

players over-estimate the effectiveness of their lurm damage. even if you're a good lurmer, about 30 out of every 50 missiles hit dirt. out of the 20 left, 16 will hit non-critical components on average.

fire 50 missiles, only 4 will get to where you need them to go.

[Shifty McSwift]

Wil McCullough, on 05 June 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

you do know that historically, archers couldn't do jack to a knight right?

bowmen in the past were effective in taking out levies and the like. not knights. arrows literally could not penetrate plate armor sufficiently to even injure the warrior beneath. only the english longbows (at the top of my head) actually posed a danger to french knights.

He did say warriors not knights, but nonetheless several simple weapons were designed for dealing with armored knights, simple to build and train weapons like pikes, and more complex advancements like the crossbow which could similarly be wielded to maximum effect with minimal training even vs the heavy armors of the time.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Wil McCullough, on 05 June 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

you do know that historically, archers couldn't do jack to a knight right?

bowmen in the past were effective in taking out levies and the like. not knights. arrows literally could not penetrate plate armor sufficiently to even injure the warrior beneath. only the english longbows (at the top of my head) actually posed a danger to french knights.

similarly in mwo, lurms are extremely effective against potatoes. and only potatoes. maybe it's art imitating life, but it's really apt how both in real life and in the game, archers are only good at "taking out trash" and perform poorly against anyone else.

players over-estimate the effectiveness of their lurm damage. even if you're a good lurmer, about 30 out of every 50 missiles hit dirt. out of the 20 left, 16 will hit non-critical components on average.

fire 50 missiles, only 4 will get to where you need them to go.

You really think a knight could withstand and exploding arrow like our LRM's? Ever watch Rambo II? Great example. Besides, I thought everyone knew that LRM's exploded.

Furthermore, ever hear of the Battle of Agincourt? It was the archers that won the battle against knights and they did not even have exploding arrows.

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 06 June 2017 - 05:04 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Wil McCullough, on 05 June 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

you do know that historically, archers couldn't do jack to a knight right?

bowmen in the past were effective in taking out levies and the like. not knights. arrows literally could not penetrate plate armor sufficiently to even injure the warrior beneath. only the english longbows (at the top of my head) actually posed a danger to french knights.

Bows could not, crossbows could.

[Brain Cancer]

Classic pattern of defense and offense- one develops enough to defeat the other, then it flips.

Notably, one of the last major developments for the Battlemech was armor that could tolerate significant laser fire, as prior to that tanks could be penetrated by vehicle-mountable large lasers that were strong enough to easily defeat the armor of the time. That was further refined to produce the modern "standard" and later, ferrofibrous and other variants.

With the Battlemech and the armor type it was equipped with, the domination of the large laser tank went the way of the armored knight in the gunpowder age. Tougher defense had trumped offense, both in terms of armor and a more robust chassis to put it on. It doesn't really even get close to flipping again until the development of next-generation armor-piercing autocannon munitions (actually, about this point in the MWO timeline) and the tandem-charge SRM.

(Yeah, it's not about the R key but it's fun trivia.)

[Gyrok]

Dee Eight, on 06 June 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

Bows could not, crossbows could.

English Longbowman could. Which was why Britain was so strong for so long.

Everyone else had to carry a crossbow that weighed twice as much.

[Revis Volek]

I threw away my R key once i started playing this game...


Tired of my kills being stolzen by zee LRM boats.

[Brain Cancer]

Strangely, I tend to find it's the other way around.

I'll hammer something to internals and Joe Vulture shows up and lazors the CT out, giving me the KMDD and him the epeen "kill", since you can't focus on a weak point with LRMs.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Brain Cancer, on 06 June 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

Strangely, I tend to find it's the other way around.

I'll hammer something to internals and Joe Vulture shows up and lazors the CT out, giving me the KMDD and him the epeen "kill", since you can't focus on a weak point with LRMs.

Same here. Guess he did not read my earlier post below:

Jep Jorgensson, on 04 June 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

As a LRM pilot, I normally get more KMDD's and damage done softening up targets that guys like you then finish off. I deal the damage softening them up with my LRM's so brawlers like you can finish them off despite doing little damage. You know what else? I am fine with that. I am a team player. If I get more damage done than anyone else (which happens a lot) but get no kills because you brawlers finished off the mechs I had spent time and tons of ammo destroying before I could (which also happens a lot), then I am fine with that. We all have a role to play. Brawlers are like warriors while LRM boats are like archers. Play your role as best as you can and let everyone else play theirs. Furthermore, as Manfred von Richthofen (aka the Red Baron) said: "It does not matter who gets the kill just so long as victory is achieved."

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 06 June 2017 - 08:55 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

I never ask for locks and therefore I am never disappointed when I don't get them. Doesn't stop me from bringing the rain in the least.

And when I assault LRM I actually share armor. Heck, now that mediums carry assault armor I will share more with those too. I like to keep close to the action, focus fire targets, and get my own locks.

But I am a tool because I LRM. I mean you can be a direct fire that cowers behind buildings but those losses must be the one LRM boats fault. Amirite?

[oldradagast]

Ted Wayz, on 06 June 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

But I am a tool because I LRM. I mean you can be a direct fire that cowers behind buildings but those losses must be the one LRM boats fault. Amirite?

I do get a laugh out of the people whining about "no skill" LRM's. As if poking people from in and out behind cover with PPFLD takes tons of skill. Oh, and let's not forget laser-vomit. Yeah, hitscans weapons - soooo much skill there.

While there are no shortage of bad players of all types, I do agree that the LRM players who are terrible tend to stand out more. Part of that, in my experience, is the strange temptation to make LRM boats with basically no close-in weapons. They then either get too close and die helpless, or stand 999 meters away (to avoid that fate) and fail to do much.

But that's the fault of the builds and the players, not LRM's. While LRM's ARE weak, it is incorrect to say that they are useless (unless you're always playing top tier matches), and certainly not correct to say they are a "no skill weapon." Heck, if they required "no skill' to use, they also wouldn't be considered useless.