361 replies to this topic

[Valdarion Silarius]

So getting back on topic, I don't think we've had a single page in this thread talking about potentially interesting theory crafting and good load outs for the Rifleman IIC and it's variants. What we do know is that:

• For the Prime we have 5 Energy hard points
  
• 4 Ballistics for variant 2
  
• 2 Energy and 2 ballistics for variant 3
  
• 2 energy and 2 missiles for variant 4
  
• These will all be high mounted

We can safely not include 5 though 8 because of the current game timeline and lack of in game tech like HAGs, AP Gauss Rifles, Plasma Cannons and Improved Jump Jets.


What we are unsure of at this point in time is that:

• How PGI will do it's geometry and how it's hit boxes will be allocated. This is what I believe will make the mech "good" instead of "average" in MW:O if done properly.
  
• What it's engine cap will be. Some are stating that it won't go over XL 320 (since the RFL-IIC 8 has a consolidated 325 XL engine that will put it on par with Summoners and Hellbringers in game). So what do you think it will be?
  
• Does it have meta potential? Will everyone rely on 2 because of it's ballistic capabilities? Will a possible hero variant that combines high mounted energy, ballistic, and missile hard points with jump jets and a decent engine cap will make the meta crowd cry "OP PTW PGI PLZ NERF!"

I'd like to hear some people theory craft some potentially good load outs that aren't vanilla stock load outs because let's face it, I definitely won't be slagging around in a Prime with stock cLPL's going 54kmph unless I had some kind of justifying quirk where i get extra durability for simply running a standard engine (hint hint Warhammer IIC with blanketed DHS's surrounding and protecting the engine).


For some potentially good load outs I could see:

• 2xcER PPC's on the Prime. 3xcERLL on the top 3 hard points and 2xcMPL's for the remaining 2 (reference to the RFL-IIC 5). Not sure how ghost heat will affect 3 ERLL's going off at the same time. Also personally really sure how to make a good heavy laser load out.
  
• 2xcGauss on the RFL-IIC2. This is pretty much a no brainer and a shout out to the Glass Spider Prime. I could see some potential brawler builds like 2xUAC20's, 2xUAC10's, LBX's etc if built properly but I might be wrong. From what I understand the current state of MW:O leans more towards ballistics now so I will be interested how people will run the customized RFL-IIC2.
  
• I think with the RFL-IIC 3 and 4 will mix some interesting results. Can definitely see some people running SRM's on the 4 and some close to mid range brawlers with the 3.
  
• The potential QQ and salt that the hero would bring if it is anything like the RFL-IIC8.

I'm only a tier 3 pilot in MW:O, so take anything I've stated in the bullets above as subjective good valid/invalid builds. I would like to hear some input to see if the mech brings anything to MW:O besides nerdgasm nostalgia to the table.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 17 December 2018 - 12:37 PM.

[Grus]

Quirk for energy varient. Can fire 4lpl with no GH.

Stone Rhino> Rifleman IIC

[Valdarion Silarius]

Grus, on 17 December 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

Quirk for energy varient. Can fire 4lpl with no GH.

Stone Rhino> Rifleman IIC

As much as I like the Stone Rhino and all it's variants (especially the 3), I'm not gonna vouch for it to be in MW:O when all you do is condescend and derail the topic so you can have it in game.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 17 December 2018 - 02:23 PM.

[Grus]

Arnold The Governator, on 17 December 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

As much as I like the Stone Rhino and all it's variants (especially the 3), I'm not gonna vouch for it to be in MW:O when all you do is condescend and derail the topic so you can have it in game.

Fist part WAS about the R2c not the SR...

SR still better than yhe R2C

[Will9761]

I'd rather prefer the use of making "[Insert Name of Your Favorite Mech Here] awareness" threads. Going on to other people's thread and suggesting their own mechs in it is not cool. Now criticisms of the mech in question is fine, since you are letting people know the pros and cons of the mech or giving a comparison to a mech of equal value.

For example:

Discussing Critiques:
"Rifleman IIC can do this, but be aware of these pros and cons. It can do X but Y is a flaw that has hampers it."

or

Mech Comparisons:
"The Glass Spider can do this, but what does the Rifleman IIC do, or what advantages does it have over the Glass Spider?"

Still, I'd prefer the use of making a mech support thread as a way to reach people, gather numbers, and discuss criticisms of the mech. At least that way, you are getting interest in that regard rather than saying, "I'd rather have my mech than your mech".

Edited by Will9761, 17 December 2018 - 06:58 PM.

[TheArisen]

Firstly I totally agree it's a bit rude to plug a mech that is not the topic of a thread unless it's relevant. For example Yeonne said he'd normally be in favor of the mechs I'm hopeful for but he wants to push for omnis. That's relavant

About the Rifleman IIc, most variants do come with a rather small stock engine, 195xl, compared to many other 65 tonners that have a 260 stock. Mechs with a 260 have gotten a cap of 315 as PGI has a formula to determine what engine a mech will get.

PGI in the past has bumped up the engine rating over the normal cap before. The Marauder hero & Annihilator being the most prominant examples. I'd absolutely advocate raising the cap at least a little because without it, even heavy quirking won't save it.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Grus, on 17 December 2018 - 02:37 PM, said:

Fist part WAS about the R2c not the SR...

SR still better than yhe R2C

Will9761, on 17 December 2018 - 02:43 PM, said:

I'd rather prefer the use of making "[Insert Name of Your Favorite Mech Here] awareness" threads. Going on to other people's thread and suggesting their own mechs in it is not cool. Now criticisms of the mech in question is fine, since you are letting people know the pro and cons of the mech or giving a comparison to a mech of equal value.

We'll if you noticed, he's in other peoples threads trying to derail them with the Stone Rhino. Back a few years ago I was idiotically spamming the RFL-IIC on threads that were discussions about other mechs, but yet again that was around the same time the MAD-IIC was announced and was anticipating a WHM-IIC - RFL-IIC release pattern in my mind. Since most of the people got their pet mechs from the MW4 wave, and the HG lawsuit that followed shortly after the MAD-IIC release, I took a long hiatus from the game. [redacted]

However with the WHM-IIC now confirmed and the free upcoming heros, I'm enjoying MW:O for what it is again. Bought a PIR 2 and been enjoying the tears that thing is able to produce. Also remade my Warhawk into a quad LPL build with an SRM6 rack to get a realistic feel on how I should run quad cLPL's in the future. I hope if the Rifleman IIC ever releases, PGI either rebuffs cLPL's and cERLL's or does some kind of distinguishable laser quirk for the prime at least.

Not to mention I do like the Stone Rhino, [redacted] I understand some people want their favorite mechs into MW:O, and understand how much of a uphill battle it has become to the point where it's not worth it to be at each others throats about it anymore.

Edited by Tina Benoit, 27 March 2019 - 05:50 PM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

My feelings on this mech would entirely depend on the engine caps given to the 1, 3, and 4 variants.

[Valdarion Silarius]

LT. HARDCASE, on 18 December 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

My feelings on this mech would entirely depend on the engine caps given to the 1, 3, and 4 variants.

Then what engine caps would the RFL-IIC need to be a potentially good mech (even possibly meta), vs something that will collect dust in the back of a mech bay after it releases because of engine restrictions?

A few posts back a few folks were stating that it won't get an 320 engine cap with the formula (I'm not even sure if this engine is size is legal on a clan heavy 65 battlemech but correct me if I'm wrong here), but I believe PGI made an exception to the engine restriction formula for the Annihilator if I understand correctly?

According to the formula, Heavy 'Mech = 1.2 x Stock-Engine, you already stated in the thread that it would have an 235 engine cap. So we are looking at a max running speed of 63.5 kmph. That is indeed pretty slow for a heavy mech in any category. So with the skill tree is it possible to bump that number past the average IS heavy speed of 64.8 kmph? Even with the skill tree mobility boost 67 kmph will still help the mech at least keep up with groups in QP.

So I guess that goes back to the core question, If PGI broke away from that formula and decided to give the 1, 3, 4 an engine cap of 320 will people QQ about it, or would it be sensible from a balancing perspective so that it can reasonably compete with similar mechs in it's heavy weight category? I honestly can't see how it would be a negative thing if the mech itself doesn't receive quirks like shorter pulse duration, cooler lasers, armor etc. I would at least like to see some kind of cLPL buff before release since I think they are rather lackluster in MW:O atm.

If there are any quirks that I would like to see the RFL-IIC receive across all of its variants, it would be a sort of buff like a permanent Garret D2j fire control system that might function in game like a tcomp1, or some kind of temporary mobility buff after using jump jets (if PGI sticks to the engine cap formula) to reference that the jump jets were originally supposed to help the mech with mobility issues. I think if PGI approaches this mech the right way it's gonna be good.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 19 December 2018 - 10:03 AM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Gonna bump this with a question then take a break for awhile. So which clan do you think was responsible for inventing the Rifleman IIC? From what I researched, I don't think there is any official sources stating which clan was responsible for making it first but there is strong evidence suggesting that it could have been three clans based on their philosophies and/or principles:

First would be Clan Nova Cat. From Sarna.net:

"For Operation Klondike, Clan Nova Cat was chosen to invade the Pentagon World of Circe along with Clan Mongoose, Clan Snow Raven, and Clan Wolverine. Khan Phillip Drummond's knowledge of Circe's terrain made the Nova Cats a natural choice for this campaign, and his leadership helped the Nova Cats maintain a strategic, as well as technological advantage over their opponents during the campaign. It was during the Circe campaign that the Nova Cat tendency toward marksmanship first made itself present."



Here is a picture of the founding father of the clan, Phillip Drummond with a clan Rifleman IIC. This mech and the Nova Cat mech itself follows the same quoted philosophy stated above. It would also make sense why that mech would be pictured with Philip as opposed to the Nova Cat, since the Nova Cat was first in 3059 while the Rifleman IIC was first produced in 2845. Philip Drummond died in 2858, being the oldest Khan of any clan at 112 years old.

Then there is Clan Smoke Jaguar and Clan Cloud Cobra. The Rifleman IIC would fit the philosophy of Clan Smoke Jaguar with it's alpha capabilities while still serving a strategic purpose, and I remember reading out there somewhere that there were specific factories that Clan Cloud Cobra made just for producing Rifleman IIC's. So perhaps if Clan Cloud Cobra wasn't responsible for the creation, but the supply of the mech that we see throughout all of the clans? Don't quote me on Clan Cloud Cobra because this is all just a theory. I'm not sure what clans have the factories of producing the Rifleman IIC on their own.

If I were to bet money on which Clan invented it, I would say Clan Nova Cat. It was first spotted with their forces but then became widespread across all clans. It would eventually make it into the Inner Sphere as evidence in such books like Fire At Will, where Roderick Steiner piloted a custom Rifleman IIC 3 retrofitted with cLPL's instead of the HLL's that the stock model came equipped with.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 20 December 2018 - 08:26 PM.

[Grus]

LT. HARDCASE, on 18 December 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

My feelings on this mech would entirely depend on the engine caps given to the 1, 3, and 4 variants.

and not the huge dome and its relitive hitboxes? That thing would be so easy to hit and cripple as it comes up a hill.. no thank you.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Grus, on 21 December 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

and not the huge dome and its relitive hitboxes? That thing would be so easy to hit and cripple as it comes up a hill.. no thank you.

The radar dish wont be a factor from a frontal hill peaking point of view. I've already discussed previously in this thread how PGI could work out the radar dish if they go for a larger radar dish profile. Before we all scream bloody murder about the head hit box, we will just have to wait what design PGI goes with and see what it will look like in game. If it turns out to be reseen redesign then the radar dish wont be an issue.

For all we know, it might get the MAD-IIC treatment and end up getting a really good, narrow slim profile for hill peaking. Your Stone Rhino on the other hand is going to be a large hitbox bloated monster if it ever drops in MW:O.



If it looks to be anything like that in game it'll be a LRM sponge and a light mechs wet dream.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 22 December 2018 - 03:04 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Well, great news regarding a tweet I submitted to Russ Bullock not so long ago. February 27th is the date and month of my birthday, and I would be ecstatic if we finally got the RFL-IIC into MW:O. Here's a screen cap, and I can't believe Catalyst Games Lab liked the tweet as well!

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 08 January 2019 - 02:31 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Arnold The Governator, on 08 January 2019 - 02:28 PM, said:

Well, great news regarding a tweet I submitted to Russ Bullock not so long ago. February 27th is the date and month of my birthday, and I would be ecstatic if we finally got the RFL-IIC into MW:O. Here's a screen cap, and I can't believe Catalyst Games Lab liked the tweet as well!

It would be even BETTER if this kind of correspondence was done in THESE forums rather than 3rd party ratholes. (Bird boxes?)

[TheArisen]

Arnold The Governator, on 08 January 2019 - 02:28 PM, said:

Well, great news regarding a tweet I submitted to Russ Bullock not so long ago. February 27th is the date and month of my birthday, and I would be ecstatic if we finally got the RFL-IIC into MW:O. Here's a screen cap, and I can't believe Catalyst Games Lab liked the tweet as well!

Hey that's awesome! Here's hoping!

[Will9761]

Fingers Crossed.

[Valdarion Silarius]

HammerMaster, on 08 January 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

It would be even BETTER if this kind of correspondence was done in THESE forums rather than 3rd party ratholes. (Bird boxes?)

Yeah I agree. The only time I ever recall PGI using their own forums was over a drama scene that happened a few years back. I don't think Twitter is an efficient communication service with it's 200 word limitation.

[TheArisen]

Arnold The Governator, on 09 January 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

Yeah I agree. The only time I ever recall PGI using their own forums was over a drama scene that happened a few years back. I don't think Twitter is an efficient communication service with it's 200 word limitation.

Well Chris posts on here pretty frequently but that's about it.

[Will9761]

As January draws to a close, here's hoping that the Rifleman IIC debuts for February.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Will9761, on 30 January 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

As January draws to a close, here's hoping that the Rifleman IIC debuts for February.

Marauder II pre-order is live until end of Feb, so maybe March?
Also, do we think it's winding down to a 'mech every other month now, until MW5 launch? It can only help QC (for both), I suppose.