184 replies to this topic

[Twilight Fenrir]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 July 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

Well, the annihilator will be the king of (IS) dakka, but id say the build will be something like this:

KGC-000B

Pretend its the ANH-2A model (1B per arm, 2B per ST)

• Move both UAC5s from the LA to the LT
  
• Swap the LL+2xMPL for a UAC5 in the RT ( same tonnage +1 slot)
  
• move one UAC5 from the RA to the RT.

2 slots left overall, which are taken by the fact that the ANH-2A has lower arm actuators.

I doubt it will use any new tech.

In terms of dakka (hgauss are not dakka) 2xUAC5 + 2xUAC10 might also be good, but any 4B build will probably be better on the Nightstar soon due to geometry

I am sooo tempted to pick up a Nightstar.... Very handsome looking mech. And it looks like it'll be on par with the MADIIC for survivability... I can't swing the money at the moment though...

I haven't really thought much beyond Fafnihilator, but I expect I'll fiddle with loading it down with UAC5s, as that's a weapon system I've grown to love. I don't remember if Little Orphan Annhi has the available crit slots or not... But a 4 AC20 build will be something I'll try if it can be done It will be slow, but god help anyone who gets in range.... (probably jist for fun for a few matches before getting dumped)

I haven't played with RACs yet, but I'll try loading them on there too at some point...

[Gas Guzzler]

RACs felt good against very stationary opponentd, but other wise I would rather have massed UACs.

5 UAC5 Annihiliator. Not sure why I didn't think of that but that sounds like fun. Nightstar can do the 2UAC10 2UAC5 build but you need the reinforcements... *sigh* guess I will probably have to pick it up.

[Gorgo7]

Odanan, on 06 July 2017 - 05:29 AM, said:

[/list]OK, but have you PGI guys considered making the MRMs wire-guided? I mean, after shooting, they follow (in a limited way) where you are aiming at. That would be a cool new mechanic for these weapons, setting them apart from the other missiles. (wire-guided missiles were introduced before in some video games, like in Battlefield 2 and Half Life II)

Odanan,
What a great idea! Incorporate a radius that the missiles may not exceed in order to keep the "cornering" to a limited curve.
Great idea!
Thanks for posting it.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

AngrySpartan, on 05 July 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

Learn the basic's before making offensive claims. HE ammo doesn't have minimum, and since ammo swap is simulated by damage fallof...

Fixing minumums for all PPCs and 10 slots for IS LBX are much needed changes indeed, I personally is still on the fence with shrinking Heavy Gauss though.

Ney Pryde, on 05 July 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

You didn't play the same table top the rest of us did, or else you'd remember HE had no minimums at all.

Tarogato, on 05 July 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

Actually I thought ATMs in TT had a minimum range of zero. The STD ammo (2 damage per missile) had a min range of 120, but the HE (3 damage per missile) has no minimum range. I'd like to see the minimum range of ATMs converted to an exponential interpolation, rather than be completely useless inside minimum range. Much like Clan LRMs vs IS LRMs.

dont you feel lame by doing that?

[Koniving]

InnerSphereNews, on 05 July 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

• Artemis upgrade no longer improperly applies a bonus to MRM's, ATM's, and Rocket Launchers.

It's been since 2012 that the Artemis Upgrade has been known to improperly apply a bonus to Streak lock on times. Any news on a fix to this?

Edited by Koniving, 06 July 2017 - 11:54 AM.

[arekP64]

InnerSphereNews, on 05 July 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

• 
  Stealth Armor will no longer remove friendly HUD designation elements for teammates.

• Artemis upgrade no longer improperly applies a bonus to MRM's, ATM's, and Rocket Launchers.

stealth armor - WHY? like seriusly why? this could point the game towards more tactical gameplay, force strong precise communication to avoid friendly fire

ATM's and artemis - i hope fact of having build-in artemis is reflected

Edited by arekP64, 06 July 2017 - 12:14 PM.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 July 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

RACs felt good against very stationary opponentd, but other wise I would rather have massed UACs.

5 UAC5 Annihiliator. Not sure why I didn't think of that but that sounds like fun. Nightstar can do the 2UAC10 2UAC5 build but you need the reinforcements... *sigh* guess I will probably have to pick it up.

I'm also thinking 6 AC5, or, I think, with an LFE300 and Endo, it should just be feasible to run 4 AC5 and 2 AC10... That'd be a mean SOB that never jams...

[Koniving]

ExtremeA79, on 05 July 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Are heavy lasers getting changed colors

PTS request for distinctive laser colors.
https://mwomercs.com...81#entry5808781

[Widowmaker1981]

Twilight Fenrir, on 06 July 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

I'm also thinking 6 AC5, or, I think, with an LFE300 and Endo, it should just be feasible to run 4 AC5 and 2 AC10... That'd be a mean SOB that never jams...

not enough slots to run 2AC10 4AC5, thats 30 slots of guns - it has 55 slots to start with

- 10 for LFE = 45
- 14 for endo = 31
- 30 for weapons = 1 slot left for ammo.

6xAC5 just about works, being 24 slots. 7 tons of ammo is on the light side but might work out OK with ammo nodes.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 06 July 2017 - 12:22 PM.

[Odanan]

Gorgo7, on 06 July 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

Odanan,
What a great idea! Incorporate a radius that the missiles may not exceed in order to keep the "cornering" to a limited curve.
Great idea!
Thanks for posting it.

For those who want to "fire-and-forget" the MRMs in brawl, it could work this way: while you hold the fire bottom, the missiles follow the reticle. If you release it, they will continue strait.

[Wintersdark]

Re Artemis on ATM's: Chris said on Twitter that the stats ATM's had WITH ARTEMIS ENABLED where the stats they where testing. We were to use Artemis on the PTS then to get the effect that ATM's would have on live (when adding Artemis to your mech won't change the ATM's stats).

With that said (and Chris didn't mention this, I'm just guessing) because missile locks have nothing to do with what missiles you have equipped, I'd bet hard cash that - like streaks - equipping Artemis will get you faster missile locks.

Mostly because that's not really something changeable now without extensive changes to how missile locks work, and PGI isn't going to do that.

[Ironically Ironclad Irony]

Odanan, on 06 July 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

For those who want to "fire-and-forget" the MRMs in brawl, it could work this way: while you hold the fire bottom, the missiles follow the reticle. If you release it, they will continue strait.

B-b-b-but that would require skill and/or situational awareness!

[Wibble in a Clan can]

RAC ghost heat isn't due to different groups & different RAC types. Can generate excess ghost heat with same weapons in the same group (e.g if chainfiring, or if on drops due to jam & comes back out of sync). The fix is no ghost heat for these weapons.

Its THE same bug as the AC2 ghost heat issue.

Edited by Wibble in a Clan can, 06 July 2017 - 03:44 PM.

[Ajantise]

IS now has all the Clan tech, but 20% weaker. Balance is better, but just hanging in there. Dont let spoiled Clan players destroy the player base and balance again. Let us fight on (almost) equal terms?

[ShootermanBrian]

I don't know if its worth mentioning but i felt like the game ran a lot smoother in the test server than the normal portal, Not just in the matches.

[Zergling]

The Civil War tech requires far more improvements to balance, as almost everything is horribly underpowered.


Here is the minimum of what yet needs to be done:

ER Micro Laser - it has worse damage/heat ratio than Clan ER Small Laser; reduce heat from 1.7 to 1.4
Micro Pulse Laser - worse DPS than Clan ER Small Laser and far too short ranged; increase damage from 3.0 to 3.3, increase optimal range from 90 to 120, increase maximum range from 180 to 240.

Heavy Small Laser - barely more damage and worse damage/heat ratio than Clan ER Small Laser, along with half the range; increase damage from 6 to 7, reduce heat from 4.25 to 4.0, increase cooldown from 3.9 to 4.75, increase optimal range from 100 to 120, increase max range from 180 to 240.
Heavy Medium Laser - beam duration is too long and has more DPS than Clan ER Medium; reduce duration from 1.45 to 1.35, increase cooldown from 5.15 to 5.75.
Heavy Large Laser - beam duration is too long and it is too hot; reduce beam duration from 1.55 to 1.45, reduce heat from 17 to 14, increase cooldown from 6.00 to 6.25.

ATM3/6/9/12 - minimum range is a poor method to prevent them from being better than Streak SRMs at close range. Remove the minimum range and increase their spread at shorter ranges so they don't focus damage so good. Also give them a flat missile arc so they can't be used indirectly, as in TT.

MRM10/20/30/40 - too much spread to work in the role of a medium range weapon; reduce spread by at least 25%
MRM10 - DPS/ton needs to be higher for the smallest MRM launcher; decrease cooldown from 4.3 to 4.0.
MRM20 - has the worst DPS/ton ratio of all MRM launchers and shared best damage/heat ratio; reduce cooldown from 4.3 to 4.0, increase heat from 6 to 7.
MRM40 - needs to have slightly worse DPS/ton ratio than other MRM launchers; increase cooldown from 4.75 to 4.80.

Light Gauss - still has substantially worse DPS/ton ratio than regular Inner Sphere Gauss Rifle; reduce cooldown from 3.75 to 3.00.
Heavy Gauss - 180 meter optimal range forces it to compete with AC20s that it can never hope to compete with; increase optimal range from 180 meters to 600 meters, increase maximum range from 810 to 1200 meters, reduce damage from 25 to 20, reduce cooldown from 6.5 to 5.75.

Heavy PPC - far too hot; reduce heat from 14.5 to 12.0.
Snub-Nosed PPC - too hot again, reduce heat from 10 to 8.

Inner Sphere ER Medium Laser - has worse damage/heat ratio than Inner Sphere ER Large Laser; reduce heat from 4.5 to 4.2.


What the ghost heat limits should be for each weapon:
ER Micro Laser = 12
Micro Pulse Laser = 6
Heavy Small Laser = 6
Heavy Medium Laser = 6
Heavy Large Laser = 2
ATM 3 = 6
ATM 6 = 3
ATM 9 = 2
ATM 12 = 1
MRM10 = 5
MRM20 = 3
MRM30 = 2
MRM40 = 1
Light Gauss = 4
Heavy Gauss = 2
Light PPC = 4
Heavy PPC = 2
Snub-Nosed PPC = 2
RAC2 = 4
RAC5 = 2

Edited by Zergling, 06 July 2017 - 11:18 PM.

[TK Romero]

Reduce Heavy Gauss to 10 slots and give it negative impacts.

Mounted to the arms, causes internal structure damage due to the massive recoil.
Mounted in an available hard point without CASE, blows off the hard point when destroyed.
Maybe when the weapon is destroyed it also damages the adjacent torso structure.

Introduces high risk high reward with the ability to equip a LF engine and/or mount the weapon to the arms.

Or maybe just keep it at 11 slots with the normal gauss quirks because then it adds role definition to the weapon. Sorry if this ended up being a repost, only got two pages into the topic thread. If it is, +1 to the original post.

[Commander James Raynor]

Zergling, on 06 July 2017 - 06:59 PM, said:

The Civil War tech requires far more improvements to balance, as almost everything is horribly underpowered.


Here is the minimum of what yet needs to be done:

ER Micro Laser - it has worse damage/heat ratio than Clan ER Small Laser; reduce heat from 1.7 to 1.4
Micro Pulse Laser - worse DPS than Clan ER Small Laser and far too short ranged; increase damage from 3.0 to 3.3, increase optimal range from 90 to 120, increase maximum range from 180 to 240.

Heavy Small Laser - barely more damage and worse damage/heat ratio than Clan ER Small Laser, along with half the range; increase damage from 6 to 7, reduce heat from 4.25 to 4.0, increase cooldown from 3.9 to 4.75, increase optimal range from 100 to 120, increase max range from 180 to 240.
Heavy Medium Laser - beam duration is too long and has more DPS than Clan ER Medium; reduce duration from 1.45 to 1.35, increase cooldown from 5.15 to 5.75.
Heavy Large Laser - beam duration is too long and it is too hot; reduce beam duration from 1.55 to 1.45, reduce heat from 17 to 14, increase cooldown from 6.00 to 6.25.

ATM3/6/9/12 - minimum range is a poor method to prevent them from being better than Streak SRMs at close range. Remove the minimum range and increase their spread at shorter ranges so they don't focus damage so good. Also give them a flat missile arc so they can't be used indirectly, as in TT.

MRM10/20/30/40 - too much spread to work in the role of a medium range weapon; reduce spread by at least 25%
MRM10 - DPS/ton needs to be higher for the smallest MRM launcher; decrease cooldown from 4.3 to 4.0.
MRM20 - has the worst DPS/ton ratio of all MRM launchers and shared best damage/heat ratio; reduce cooldown from 4.3 to 4.0, increase heat from 6 to 7.
MRM40 - needs to have slightly worse DPS/ton ratio than other MRM launchers; increase cooldown from 4.75 to 4.80.

Light Gauss - still has substantially worse DPS/ton ratio than regular Inner Sphere Gauss Rifle; reduce cooldown from 3.75 to 3.00.
Heavy Gauss - 180 meter optimal range forces it to compete with AC20s that it can never hope to compete with; increase optimal range from 180 meters to 600 meters, increase maximum range from 810 to 1200 meters, reduce damage from 25 to 20, reduce cooldown from 6.5 to 5.75.

Heavy PPC - far too hot; reduce heat from 14.5 to 12.0.
Snub-Nosed PPC - too hot again, reduce heat from 10 to 8.

Inner Sphere ER Medium Laser - has worse damage/heat ratio than Inner Sphere ER Large Laser; reduce heat from 4.5 to 4.2.


What the ghost heat limits should be for each weapon:
ER Micro Laser = 12
Micro Pulse Laser = 6
Heavy Small Laser = 6
Heavy Medium Laser = 6
Heavy Large Laser = 2
ATM 3 = 6
ATM 6 = 3
ATM 9 = 2
ATM 12 = 1
MRM10 = 5
MRM20 = 3
MRM30 = 2
MRM40 = 1
Light Gauss = 4
Heavy Gauss = 2
Light PPC = 4
Heavy PPC = 2
Snub-Nosed PPC = 2
RAC2 = 4
RAC5 = 2

I agree with most points, especially with the heavy lasers (Heavy large laser is just unusable with that much heat) and the heavy PPC (too heavy, too hot). However, I disagree on the following:

- Heavy gauss delivers its damage much better than the AC20, and I don't think they should increase its range, especially by that much. This is, by far, my major point of disagreement with your list.
- 6 heavy medium lasers is too much. Ghost heat after 4 seems reasonable. 5 if you want to push it, but 6, no way.

On everything else, from the ER micro small lasers being too hot to the light gauss having a DPS too low, I agree completely.

[Ryoken]

Odanan, on 06 July 2017 - 05:29 AM, said:

[/list] OK, but have you PGI guys considered making the MRMs wire-guided? I mean, after shooting, they follow (in a limited way) where you are aiming at. That would be a cool new mechanic for these weapons, setting them apart from the other missiles. (wire-guided missiles were introduced before in some video games, like in Battlefield 2 and Half Life II)

Gorgo7, on 06 July 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

Odanan,
What a great idea! Incorporate a radius that the missiles may not exceed in order to keep the "cornering" to a limited curve.
Great idea!
Thanks for posting it.

Actually LRMs should Work like wire guided missiles when fired in direct mode. MRMs were explicitly described as cheap unguided weapons that try to compensate with bigger numbers of missiles IIRC.

[L1f3H4ck]

Isn't there enough time to do some more test-servering? Playing the current build is fine and all, but...

It's like playing WoW, 10 days before Cataclysm. I already feel like I'm playing the old version.