184 replies to this topic

[Zergling]

Commander James Raynor, on 07 July 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

- Heavy gauss delivers its damage much better than the AC20, and I don't think they should increase its range, especially by that much. This is, by far, my major point of disagreement with your list.
- 6 heavy medium lasers is too much. Ghost heat after 4 seems reasonable. 5 if you want to push it, but 6, no way.

Heavy Gauss weighs 18 tons versus the AC20 at 14 tons, has 5 shots of ammo per ton versus 7, has 6.50 second cooldown versus 4.00 second, and has a 1.00 second charge-up versus no charge up.
The AC20 absolutely shreds the Heavy Gauss within its optimal range of 270 meters due to far higher DPS, and it does so while weighing less. The AC20 also doesn't have the disadvantages of only fitting in side torso hardpoints with a standard engine, or blowing up when crit.

As for the Heavy Medium Laser ghost heat limit, that's because the Heavy Lasers are all about alpha damage; if the Heavy Medium can only fire 4 at once, then their alpha damage output is only 40, less than the 42 damage that 6x ER Mediums can put out.
Math-wise, the Heavy Lasers with my proposed changes would have worse DPS than comparable Clan ER Lasers, so their primary advantage would be alpha damage.

Worth noting that without my proposed changes to the Heavy Medium, it actually has superior DPS and damage/heat to the Clan ER Medium Laser; it is probably the only usable Heavy Laser as things currently stand.

Edited by Zergling, 07 July 2017 - 04:04 PM.

[JadePanther]

why take down PTS at all.. JUST PATCH IT...

we could use it for the next 3 months or so in place of the CBILLS you didnt refund for modules.. This way we have somewhere to test out things for a while with the nearly unlimited cbills.. I think this is fair exchange for the horrible GSP crap..

That or give us a GSP to cbill conversion..

[warner2]

J0anna, on 05 July 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

It is a nerf, previously it allowed you to lead your target, shoot and rapidly twist to spread the inevitable incoming damage. Now you have to hold face time until all missiles are out, allowing your opponents to pour more damage into you before you can twist (or you twist and even less of your missiles head to where you want them).

That's really poor logic. The are a stream fire weapon just like UACs which also require face time. That's just the mechanic.

I think what you want is the ability to take snap shots and the mechanic that supports that would be for them to all come out together like SRMs. In this game the number of tubes on the model starts to come into play.

I'd prefer MRMs to come out altogether and disregard the number of tubes on the model. Sorry realists and purists out there but game play comes first and they would be more useful if you could take snapshots with them and fire off a full volley altogether. Balance them around damage values and cool down.

[Nimnul]

The missiles can not fire sideways. MRM rockets are fired with a jet. If the sight moves, late missiles must follow.

[Tordin]

AngrySpartan, on 05 July 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

Learn the basic's before making offensive claims. HE ammo doesn't have minimum, and since ammo swap is simulated by damage fallof...

Fixing minumums for all PPCs and 10 slots for IS LBX are much needed changes indeed, I personally is still on the fence with shrinking Heavy Gauss though.

The IS lbx 20 should be shrinked to 10 slots, its a spread weapon, also can enjoy LFE with it. But doing the same for HGR? NO thanks. Make the cooldown a bit longer, the velocity a bit better but do not change the crits needed. a 50 pinpoint with some immersion shake is a really nice blend imo. Dont take that away.

Now Heavy lasers need to be shrunk a tiny bit more on the duration, but still be longer than other ER clan lasers. Meanwhile IS ER smalls and mediums should NOT have longer range than their clan counterparts. Its weird though, thye got it right with the IS large lasers range being shorter than the Clan ones. Whats the reason behind that?

Also the Racs needs to be more worth the facetime. meake the yellow chargeup even slower, maybe increase the jam chance a bit more but decrease the jame duration more. UACS should be the other way around. I think ghost heat on IS uac 10 and 20 are a bit much. Could understand that IF they were single slug, like the uac 2 and 5.

Edited by Tordin, 08 July 2017 - 07:34 AM.

[Grus]

shopsmart, on 05 July 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

All I hear from clan tech is MORE POWER. Aka, remove minimum, lower the duration of heavies. Welcome to the IS pal!.

please explain.. heavy lasers will have a 1.3+ duration and shorter range. Damage per heat is meh and will be easy to spread.. so how are these like IS?

[PlayerUnknown]

will this be the end of the might dual gauss era ?

[Zergling]

JayRtech, on 08 July 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

will this be the end of the might dual gauss era ?

Highly unlikely

[Nimnul]

JayRtech, on 08 July 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

will this be the end of the might dual gauss era ?

This will be a new era of fantastic builds that make pugs. I will collect screenshots.

Edited by Nimnul, 09 July 2017 - 01:04 AM.

[Mecrutio]

Just 2 things from me really:
1: MRMs need a tighter spread. Maybe higher velocity. Especially now that they track the reticule (and we all knew it was coming)
2. Stealth Armour needs to make you invisible to both teams. The tactical play it enabled would have been amazing for the game...letting you stay visible to your team just makes it a slightly better ECM without any additional tactical game play.

Just for being able to sneak around the enemy team without them knowing you're not on their team would have been a reason to use it, and very much in flavour of the armour.

I'm not sure why PGI changed stealth armour to be visible to your own team...were people crying about it or something? If so, why?

[AnHell86]

1) MRMs track the reticule? So you have face the enemy without torso twisting? LRMs are much better then. With LRMs at least you can "brawl" and shoot over cover and torso twist.

If they track the reticule then MRMs need a desperate boost of velocity, otherwise, just equip manly SRMs and break mech faces, as usual. In most of the youtube PTS gameplay videos I watched, MRMs were fired in the SRM range.

2) I agree, Stealth armor needs be kept as played in PTS. It is much more realistic because it is supposed to block all communication signals in and out.

o7

Edit: Regarding stealth armor, don't dumb down the game, PGI.

Edited by AnHell86, 09 July 2017 - 03:13 AM.

[Ironically Ironclad Irony]

AnHell86, on 09 July 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

2) I agree, Stealth armor needs be kept as played in PTS. It is much more realistic because it is supposed to block all communication signals in and out.

o7

More "realistic"? sure! More teamkills? ABSOLUTELY! Therefore, bad idea...

Funny things that can happen if implemented:

1) "Oh look, two Pirate's Banes with stealth armor fighting each other.... Who do I shoot?"

2) Discover enemy team has same type of mech as you with stealt as well.. Kill/incompacitate him and run with their team, taking his place.

3) Finally, ZOMG I MUST SHOOT DAT MECH HE'S GOT NO BLUE DORITO! TEAMKILL?!?!?! WHY U PENALIZE ME PGI?!?!?!

[AnHell86]

Ironically Ironclad Irony, on 09 July 2017 - 03:10 AM, said:

More "realistic"? sure! More teamkills? ABSOLUTELY! Therefore, bad idea...

Funny things that can happen if implemented:

1) "Oh look, two Pirate's Banes with stealth armor fighting each other.... Who do I shoot?"

2) Discover enemy team has same type of mech as you with stealt as well.. Kill/incompacitate him and run with their team, taking his place.

3) Finally, ZOMG I MUST SHOOT DAT MECH HE'S GOT NO BLUE DORITO! TEAMKILL?!?!?! WHY U PENALIZE ME PGI?!?!?!

A short rebuttal/praise.

1) If I were one of the stealth mechs, I would turn off stealth to a) reduce my generated heat during the brawl and b) let my friendlies know who to shoot. I see no problem here.

2) Yeah, nice gameplay mechanic. Impostor skill. <3

3) This is what some of us want, more flavor to the game. Use comms with the "friendly" to make him identify himself. If he shoots you, shoot back and let everyone know that stealth chassis is the enemy. If he doesn't respond, shoot him; he should have identified himself or, al least, press the "Help" button to show his coordinates.

How does Lore implement this? If not stated in Lore, use our own technology to define it. Please refer to link https://aviation.sta...ach-other/14376 for a quick read on how comms during Stealth missions work. It seems they have a predefined flight path and no comms are active during the mission.

o7

Edit: typo

Edited by AnHell86, 09 July 2017 - 11:38 PM.

[BEARDOOM]

When you sad SNUB-PPC, I yeald Energy SHOOTGUN, close range, spread...
Why did you made it?

[Thorn Hallis]

A 'Mech with active Stealth Armor is supposed to 'suffer' from the effects as if it is in range of an enemy ECM Suite. Will this lead to accidental team damage/teamkills? Probably. Will it raise tactical awareness? Maybe for some Players, maybe for most of 'em. Let's put it on the live servers and see what happens.

[Ironically Ironclad Irony]

AnHell86, on 09 July 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

Use comms with the "friendly" to make him identify himself.

I don't care what tier you are, this is teh funny right here....

[Fox the Apprentice]

Mecrutio, on 09 July 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

[...]
2. Stealth Armour needs to make you invisible to both teams. The tactical play it enabled would have been amazing for the game...letting you stay visible to your team just makes it a slightly better ECM without any additional tactical game play.

Just for being able to sneak around the enemy team without them knowing you're not on their team would have been a reason to use it, and very much in flavour of the armour.

I'm not sure why PGI changed stealth armour to be visible to your own team...were people crying about it or something? If so, why?

There was a crazy amount of team killing going on, even when you announced to your team that it was you. I was killed once right out of spawn by an idiot who was SOO CONFUSED as to how he killed a teammate...

Also, it has a very high cost to equip! It does not need any less capability.

[Fox the Apprentice]

Thorn Hallis, on 09 July 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

A 'Mech with active Stealth Armor is supposed to 'suffer' from the effects as if it is in range of an enemy ECM Suite. Will this lead to accidental team damage/teamkills? Probably. Will it raise tactical awareness? Maybe for some Players, maybe for most of 'em. Let's put it on the live servers and see what happens.

No, it will do neither. People will get sick of the team killing and won't take it (it isn't cheap to take...) unless in a 8-12 man premade.

[MovinTarget]

Fox the Apprentice, on 09 July 2017 - 05:18 AM, said:

No, it will do neither. People will get sick of the team killing and won't take it (it isn't cheap to take...) unless in a 8-12 man premade.

Agreed

People want to cite TT for things like this but consider this:

How often did you play tabletop with 11 complete strangers on whom you relied on their own initiative to divulge info about their loadouts?

My understanding about how most TT games (i will admit i didn't play TT much) was that you built your lance/star/company around some sort of plan which involved knowing who was bringing what...

Here, unless you are in an ORGANIZED group, that just is not going to happen and some allowances need to be made.

See, its not jusr the rules of TT don't always translate to online RTS, its the conditions as well...

Edited by MovinTarget, 09 July 2017 - 06:31 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

W E N D I G O, on 09 July 2017 - 06:37 AM, said:

Don't get why there is a even discussion about the ff-indicator of a stealthed 'Mech on your own team. As was already said, observed ingame and done it only is a drawback for people who use it, for people who have teammates who use it and for even for people who don't have teammates who us it - because a stealthed 'Mech could be one of their team. There is not one advantage I could think of which keeping this as it was would add to the viability of this tech.

Thing I actually find worth discussing if really EVERY single 'Mech should have access to it. MASC is limited by lore, ECM is limited lore, Omnimech upgrades are limited by lore - why the heck will I have to potentially deal with 12 man drops of units in FP which are all stealthed?

Why?

PS: Well, I know why, PGI didn't think going Gauss+stealth in numbers of twelve could be a thing...

Since stealth armour can only be mounted on ECM mechs, and is only really situationally useful at best, i dont think you need to worry about that.