338 replies to this topic

[Kaptain]

Ed Steele, on 14 July 2017 - 11:25 PM, said:

Seriously though, why create another KD3 situation, just so people can whine and it has to be nerfed a few patches later?

You think it will be that bad? I personally don't. The KDK was able to fit 4ultra10s and thanks to a bug fire them without ghost heat. It did this all while being able to carry very decent ammo, easily mount ES and the pilot could pick any clan XL engine they wanted.

I am curious how 5xUultra5s or 6xAC5s is going to play... Certainly a concern those loadouts could be OP despite the slow speed and low ammo supplies.

[Twilight Fenrir]

W E N D I G O, on 14 July 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

Those Annihilator quirks are a HUGE BRAINFART... oh wait - mmmh, new IS ballistics, IS dedicated ballistic Mech gets completely inappropriate (INSANE!) durability quirks -> bait and switch with the sole purpose of selling those fuglies until the outcry of the community will be loud enough they get nerfed and everyone who bought is stuck with dead metal catching dust in their bays.

Nice try.

I hope enough people take the bait shelling out cash so alienating the other players, which have to deal with this atrocity of unbalance for a month or two is worth it financially. So that's the reason for active premium time, you want people to log in to face that metal grinder? Clever.

Like, 5 minutes before quirks dropped half the people in this thread were b*tching that the Annihilator was slow, F*ing giant, and wouldn't survive 2 minutes because of hitboxes. That it would be dead before it finished dragging its arms over a hill enough to shoot with them...

Did you notice the aiming arc on the Anni? It can turn sideways quite well, but it can only aim up and down a 10° with its torso, and only another 12.5° with its arms... That's gonna be a big problem for it..., especially being so tall...

Quirks or no, I preordered my Anni when it was announced, and I am gonna love the hell out of it no matter what

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 15 July 2017 - 05:58 AM.

[John McHobo]

My thoughts on the quirks:

Mad Kat II:
Very appropriate. Neat quirks for weapon hardpoints that are not overrepresented. This mech may be in need of very small survivability quirks, maybe the peek potential evens it out. We will see.

Uziel:
Exactly like the MadKat.

Cougar:
Can´t say much about the weapon quirks, since I don´t know how spead or ficoused on single omnipods they are.
In terms of defense the leg structure is a good move.

And then there is the Annihilator:
To start positive, a 100 ton mech with such a small engine cap (relatively) is in need of defensive quirks. The crit reduction on Assaults is a good move, so the mech can make something out of its strucure and weapons after the armor is breached.
23% crit reduction (15+8 from the skill tree, because not maxing survivability tree is a waste here) is ok to keep it operational.
The first bad move then is to make the defense quirks all armor and not an armor/strucure mix. Every time you pull that move you invalidate the entire mechanics of critical hit management of the game.
And then there are the weapon quirks... which by the looks of the other 3 mechs were done by a different designer.

A 100 ton mech with 4-6 energy/ballistic hardpoints has tremendous boating potential. To support that kind of boating with general 10% to both and further 10% for specific weapons (which this mech can also boat) is a horrible, horrible, horrible idea! And we are not talking about gorilla, knuckledragger hardpoints here: half of them are chest high.
Who wrote that? What thinking is behind it!
Its not as bad as the Kodiak 3, but pretty damn close to it.

[Trev Firestorm]

What the **** dynamic geo, AHN-MB hands.... why? Why does crap like that keep happening???

[Mike Barnes]

The Annihilator gets the same armor quirks as an atlas RS or D, though not quite the crit chance reduction that the D has. It should be a tough mech. The weapons quirks seem pretty decent, and Nobody thought this mech was going anywhere fast so, I think it looks good

The Uziel is all screwed up according to the patch notes anyway, but those movement stats, crush every other 50 tonner not piloted by an Allard.

Cougar, has a generic cool down quirk, one variant has a 15% cool down quirk, a little scary, but okay. I also like the heat dissipation quirk. It moves like a puma, so whatever there. Looks like it might actually shape up nicely overall.

Mad Cat MKII, It has the same movement profile as the Supernova with a much larger engine cap and a better hard point variety. I see it as basically a faster supernova that might not just run laser vomit.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Trev Firestorm, on 15 July 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

What the **** dynamic geo, AHN-MB hands.... why? Why does crap like that keep happening???

What? O_o The Mean Baby doesn't have hands...

Mike Barnes, on 15 July 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

The Annihilator gets the same armor quirks as an atlas RS or D, though not quite the crit chance reduction that the D has. It should be a tough mech. The weapons quirks seem pretty decent, and Nobody thought this mech was going anywhere fast so, I think it looks good

The Uziel is all screwed up according to the patch notes anyway, but those movement stats, crush every other 50 tonner not piloted by an Allard.

Cougar, has a generic cool down quirk, one variant has a 15% cool down quirk, a little scary, but okay. I also like the heat dissipation quirk. It moves like a puma, so whatever there. Looks like it might actually shape up nicely overall.

Mad Cat MKII, It has the same movement profile as the Supernova with a much larger engine cap and a better hard point variety. I see it as basically a faster supernova that might not just run laser vomit.

I was wondering how those armor quirks compared to the Atlas... thanks for sharing that :3 That's a very reasoned view of the mechs, and their respective quirks, thank you.

[Jay Leon Hart]

WOOT! Fixed

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

[Samedi Wretch]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, I haven't read the whole thread. But, anyone else notice that the MCII-1(S) has 85 + 20 yaw degrees listed, indicating it has lower arm actuators, while the standard version does not? (It's not supposed to.)

[MacKJames]

I don't get why the ballistics in the arms of the MC MK 2 are so exposed. It looks nothing like the concept art.

Edited by MacKJames, 15 July 2017 - 09:14 PM.

[dario03]

I was expecting a lot more armor/structure quirks on the Cougar. Like near Urbanmech levels since its even slower than a lot of urbie builds. Actually I would even be ok with moving some of the leg quirks up to the torsos. People usually go for the legs on lights to slow them down but the Cougar is practically pre-legged. Nothing for the CT and only a little for certain STs and don't know how many quirks are set of 8...I don't know just seems like it will die to easily.

[Gas Guzzler]

dario03, on 16 July 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

I was expecting a lot more armor/structure quirks on the Cougar. Like near Urbanmech levels since its even slower than a lot of urbie builds. Actually I would even be ok with moving some of the leg quirks up to the torsos. People usually go for the legs on lights to slow them down but the Cougar is practically pre-legged. Nothing for the CT and only a little for certain STs and don't know how many quirks are set of 8...I don't know just seems like it will die to easily.

Going to put more standoffish builds on that one.. I think 2 HLL 2 HML and ECM with like 17 DHS or so is feasible.. I know its a lot of facetime, but the damage...

[UrbanTarget]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 July 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Going to put more standoffish builds on that one.. I think 2 HLL 2 HML and ECM with like 17 DHS or so is feasible.. I know its a lot of facetime, but the damage...

It's built to hang with the big boys, not scout.

If you play it like a medium/heavy you can do serious dmg

[Yumoshiri]

Question:

Is it intended that the rate of heat loss is smaller than other lights with small engines? E.g. kitfox of 30 tonnes has 15% while having a bigger engine (cXL180). Second remark, why couldn't the cougar get an cXL180 (note that XL175 and XL180 have the same weight)? Were you imagining that 84 khp would be too fast for this little marvel? Well OK, you wanted to make it a slow weapon platform, in that case some decent armor quirks would have been appropriate.

I'm a bit fearful that cougars will be target practice for those with heavy gauss, instantly shredding this thing to tears. It has no mobility, little armor, and not enough weapons to scare off anything but a light. Or actually, too many weapons to draw attention to you as a quick and easy kill.

[Arkhangel]

Yumoshiri, on 16 July 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Question:

Is it intended that the rate of heat loss is smaller than other lights with small engines? E.g. kitfox of 30 tonnes has 15% while having a bigger engine (cXL180). Second remark, why couldn't the cougar get an cXL180 (note that XL175 and XL180 have the same weight)? Were you imagining that 84 khp would be too fast for this little marvel? Well OK, you wanted to make it a slow weapon platform, in that case some decent armor quirks would have been appropriate.

I'm a bit fearful that cougars will be target practice for those with heavy gauss, instantly shredding this thing to tears. It has no mobility, little armor, and not enough weapons to scare off anything but a light. Or actually, too many weapons to draw attention to you as a quick and easy kill.

actually, they gave it a 175 simply because that's what it carries as an OmniMech, per the Sarna page. OmniMechs can't have their engines swapped without entirely rebuilding the mech from scratch.

but don't take my word for it, read the Sarna page: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cougar

I do agree it should probably be a LITTLE tankier, but in fairness, it's got a pretty short target profile too, which should help it a little, like it does for the Bushwacker and Crab.

Edited by Arkhangel, 16 July 2017 - 12:09 PM.

[CK16]

where is the update for today?

[Twilight Fenrir]

CK16, on 16 July 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

where is the update for today?

In the past, they kind of contracted out the weekend to the guys at NGNG... I'm not sure if that's still going on or not... if it is, they pretty commonly posted very late...

[Gasoline]

UrbanTarget, on 16 July 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

It's built to hang with the big boys, not scout.

If you play it like a medium/heavy you can do serious dmg

But you don't have the armor of a medium, nor the firepower.

Arkhangel, on 16 July 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

I do agree it should probably be a LITTLE tankier, but in fairness, it's got a pretty short target profile too, which should help it a little, like it does for the Bushwacker and Crab.

It doesn't help the Adder tho. And the Cougar has the same target profile while being a lot slower. You cannot compare the 35t Cougar with IS medium Mechs which have formidable hitboxes and armor/structure quirks.

Problem the Cougar has is: 81 kph stock, 87 kph after current speed tweak (21 skill points that HAVE to be taken). Survivability won't help a lot on clan lights (+5 points on CT with the left half of the survival tree skilled).

Pod Space: I'll compare Cougar and Adder here.

Total Tonnage: 35t both
Engine: 8.5t for the Adder , 5.5t for the Cougar
Armor: 6t for the Adder, 5.5t for the Cougar (can be upped to the same amout of the Adder)
Heat Sinks (for a total to 10): 2t for the Adder, 4t for the Cougar
Chassis weight: 2t Adder, 1t Cougar

Available pod space: 16.5t for the Adder, 19t for the Cougar

That's a difference of 2,5 tons, with nearly maxed armor 2t... while being 17,4 kph slower (speed tweaked). Keep in mind, that is the same speed that Huntsman, Nova, Ebon Jaguar, Hellbringer, Mad Dog, Timber Wolf, Summoner and Gargoyle can go. Even the Stormcrow and Linebacker can go faster.

My take on would be to buff the speed tweak percentage of the Cougar to make it at least somewhat competitive. Otherwise it'll be breakfast for anything on the battlefield. You basically have to take the -H head (ECM) to at least gain some extra survivability.

It's getting pretty annoying with clan lights. The only competitive light is the Arctic Cheetah. The Kit Fox ist kinda okay (it's redeeming factor being ECM). The Jenner IIC is way to tall. The Adder lacks speed or armor. The Mist Lynx is slow and has bad hardpoints.

[StormDll]

John McHobo, on 15 July 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

And then there is the Annihilator:
To start positive, a 100 ton mech with such a small engine cap (relatively) is in need of defensive quirks. The crit reduction on Assaults is a good move, so the mech can make something out of its strucure and weapons after the armor is breached.
23% crit reduction (15+8 from the skill tree, because not maxing survivability tree is a waste here) is ok to keep it operational.
The first bad move then is to make the defense quirks all armor and not an armor/strucure mix. Every time you pull that move you invalidate the entire mechanics of critical hit management of the game.
And then there are the weapon quirks... which by the looks of the other 3 mechs were done by a different designer.

A 100 ton mech with 4-6 energy/ballistic hardpoints has tremendous boating potential. To support that kind of boating with general 10% to both and further 10% for specific weapons (which this mech can also boat) is a horrible, horrible, horrible idea! And we are not talking about gorilla, knuckledragger hardpoints here: half of them are chest high.
Who wrote that? What thinking is behind it!
Its not as bad as the Kodiak 3, but pretty damn close to it.

And then there is the Daish:
To start positive, a 100 ton mech with such a small engine cap (relatively) is not need of defensive quirks. The crit reduction on Assaults is a good move, so the mech cannot make something out of its strucure and weapons after the armor is breached.
0% crit reduction (0+0 from the skill tree, because not maxing survivability tree is a waste here) is ok to keep it operational.
blah blah blah.
And Torso Yaw: 60 °

Edited by StormDll, 16 July 2017 - 11:25 PM.

[Zergling]

Weapon hardpoint locations for all variants are detailed now.

Disappointing the Annihilator variants with 2 ballistics in a side torso, get the second ballistic so low, when there was plenty of space to put it above the first ballistic hardpoint.
I'm guessing PGI is trying to avoid another 'KDK-3 dakka' situation.

Surprise for the Mad Cat Mk II is how high mounted the MC-IIA's right torso ballistic is.

All the Uziel hardpoints are pretty high, I guess this is why PGI thought it was ok to give it such weak quirks. I think they'll be wrong though; the mech is likely to be underpowered even with so many high hardpoints.

Cougar is about as expected; only the torso and head hardpoints are high, and the mech has to pay for those by losing useful quirks (plus the energy and ballistic side torso hardpoints are locked behind Reinforcement and Hero addon purchases).

Edited by Zergling, 17 July 2017 - 12:27 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 July 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Going to put more standoffish builds on that one.. I think 2 HLL 2 HML and ECM with like 17 DHS or so is feasible.. I know its a lot of facetime, but the damage...

Lol.

Thats the same heat as 2xLPL 5xERML.

Enjoy melting into a puddle.