176 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Ghost heat is not the answer to fixing this problem.

I honestly don't know what will fix it but snipers with ERPPC are already super hot and they fire, hide, fire, hide, fire, hide.


You're just going to make them hide for 3-5 seconds longer while they cool off from a little extra heat.


That is not enough to stop a NTG from jump sniping to 1500 damage in 6 minutes of play.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 02:08 PM, said:

Yeah because the skill tree was released last night? Lol.

Hard to believe since all your leaderboard stats are showing up blank since then. If you had played a decent amount you would have noticed that PPC Gauss isn't really a dominant force in quick play anymore. Of course, you do have an alt so I'm sure you will use that as a convenient shield as I don't know what it is so I can't look it up.

Off the top of my head:

Ilya Arkhipova == Bishop Steiner
KekistanWillRiseAgain == I_AM_ZUUL
DiabetesOverlord Wilfred Brimley == Imperius
EvilGoof == MacClearly

There are probably other alts for even these players.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Yeah because the skill tree was released last night? Lol.

Hard to believe since all your leaderboard stats are showing up blank since then. If you had played a decent amount you would have noticed that PPC Gauss isn't really a dominant force in quick play anymore. Of course, you do have an alt so I'm sure you will use that as a convenient shield as I don't know what it is so I can't look it up.



Doubtful. And again, the skill tree was released prior to last night when I got home from the night on the town to read these patch notes. So, I had ample time to play the game with the skill tree over the past few months.

Hey...just had to check..when you get a head of steam...

Also I play 3 accounts, and have been limited as I have said god knows how many times, due to you know. death in the family, hardware issues, etc? But if it's truly such a minor impact, your rant fest is even more out of effin proportion.

SMH.

And honestly... I could give two shits what you think at this point I'm just enjoying watching you go on a Johnny z level rant.

[davoodoo]

Xetelian, on 15 July 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

That is not enough to stop a NTG from jump sniping to 1500 damage in 6 minutes of play.

oh im stickler for such statements.

6 minutes is 360 seconds.

gauss cools down in 5s + 0.75s charge.
erppc in 4.5s

so lets take alpha and assume that it cant overheat and fired every 6 seconds.
so 60 alphas each for 45dmg will result in 2700 dmg.

so to score 1500 dmg you would need to fire on average every 11 seconds and never miss.

i mean sure that happens...

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Hey...just had to check..when you get a head of steam...

Also I play 3 accounts, and have been limited as I have said god knows how many times, due to you know. death in the family, hardware issues, etc? But if it's truly such a minor impact, your rant fest is even more out of effin proportion.

SMH.

And honestly... I could give two shits what you think at this point I'm just enjoying watching you go on a Johnny z level rant.

Am I ranting? Seems more like I'm just debating whether or not PPC/Gauss deserved this nerf with people.

And... you must not be catching everything I'm saying because it is a major impact to any mech that brought 2 PPC and 1 Gauss.

I don't really care whether or not you are playing or why, that doesn't matter and neither does your personal issues, as I have my own. But, if you are trying to say that PPC/Gauss is dominant, its not, and if you were playing to even just a moderate degree you would know that.

The only reason I care to respond to you is because your erroneous comments are clouding up the discussion.

[Jeremiah Thoryn]

This thread can be summed up: Potatoes thinking that gauss + ppc is super-stronk OP, and PGI somehow agreeing with them. PGI is always 6+ months behind the meta. PPC+Gauss is was viable sure, but not over-performing because of the survival tree, and general armor/structure quirks, and lazor vomit is back in big way. Yay for one less viable option. Many other ways to nerf poptarting and this is how they do it. SMDH.

[Nightbird]

Xetelian, on 15 July 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

That is not enough to stop a NTG from jump sniping to 1500 damage in 6 minutes of play.

And? Should we nerf all builds that can do 1500 damage in 6minutes? Might as well nerf every weapon in the game by 50% then.

[Y E O N N E]

Jeremiah Thoryn, on 15 July 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

This thread can be summed up: Potatoes thinking that gauss + ppc is super-stronk OP, and PGI somehow agreeing with them. PGI is always 6+ months behind the meta. PPC+Gauss is was viable sure, but not over-performing because of the survival tree, and general armor/structure quirks, and lazor vomit is back in big way. Yay for one less viable option. Many other ways to nerf poptarting and this is how they do it. SMDH.

Ironically, this isn't much of a nerf to pop-tarting. Both sides can still rip out 30 damage alphas even better than before. It's more of a nerf to the grounded Assaults and, specifically, to the Night Gyr.

[Alexander of Macedon]

This is the best way to nerf poptarting because it means that in two years or so PGI will finally remember to buff jumpjets.

Honestly am getting a good laugh at all the bitter tears of people woefully declaring that Gauss+PPC wasn't meta and wasn't that good while simultaneously desperately trying to buff it.

[Jeremiah Thoryn]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

Ironically, this isn't much of a nerf to pop-tarting. Both sides can still rip out 30 damage alphas even better than before. It's more of a nerf to the grounded Assaults and, specifically, to the Night Gyr.

You are correct it is a nerf aimed specifically at the Night Gyr. It does affect anymech that could poptart with this combination though obviously NTG was the most popular. However, it could have been handled another way, instead of nerfing the combination this way together.

also imo 30 alphas were never the problem.

[Gas Guzzler]

NlGHTBlRD, on 15 July 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

And? Should we nerf all builds that can do 1500 damage in 6minutes? Might as well nerf every weapon in the game by 50% then.

BrUt4l.

cERLL OP please nerf?

Alexander of Macedon, on 15 July 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

This is the best way to nerf poptarting because it means that in two years or so PGI will finally remember to buff jumpjets.

Honestly am getting a good laugh at all the bitter tears of people woefully declaring that Gauss+PPC wasn't meta and wasn't that good while simultaneously desperately trying to buff it.

I'm not trying to buff it, I'm just trying not to add ghost heat to it.

[Xetelian]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

oh im stickler for such statements.

6 minutes is 360 seconds.

gauss cools down in 5s + 0.75s charge.
erppc in 4.5s

so lets take alpha and assume that it cant overheat and fired every 6 seconds.
so 60 alphas each for 45dmg will result in 2700 dmg.

so to score 1500 dmg you would need to fire on average every 11 seconds and never miss.

i mean sure that happens...

That may be the case, but I've seen guys do 980 damage with their NTG in a 6 minute game on Frozen.


Some people hit WAAAAY more often than they miss.


I think the point is still the same.


On maps like Frozen this won't change much.

[davoodoo]

NlGHTBlRD, on 15 July 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

And? Should we nerf all builds that can do 1500 damage in 6minutes? Might as well nerf every weapon in the game by 50% then.

red team did 5094 dmg
blue team did 5088 dmg

red team had 5276 max armor without quirks and skills
blue had 5196

**** me potato tier is real, you peeled of nearly everything possible from legs up.

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 03:02 PM.

[Jeremiah Thoryn]

Alexander of Macedon, on 15 July 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

This is the best way to nerf poptarting because it means that in two years or so PGI will finally remember to buff jumpjets.

Honestly am getting a good laugh at all the bitter tears of people woefully declaring that Gauss+PPC wasn't meta and wasn't that good while simultaneously desperately trying to buff it.

It was still viable, but not nearly as meta as before, because of mobility nerfs of specific chassis that could run the combination, much increased survive-ability, lazor vomit is superior in most cases and in general coordinated brawling is very stronk. I don't think anyone who is against this nerf, that isnt a potato, is asking for a buff. Just for it to remain viable.

The best way to nerf poptarting would be to add screen shake entire time while in flight, making JJ's solely a mobility tool not a mobility/dps tool instead of nerfing poptarting, they nerf the entire weapon system. Very similar to what PGI did with the UAC10, instead of simply nerfing the KDK3.

Edited by Jeremiah Thoryn, 15 July 2017 - 02:59 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Jay Leon Hart, on 15 July 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

MW3 also had custom maps so cold, weapons produced no heat, and mods that gave you infinite ammo. I'd hardly say it can be used as a comparison for balance in MWO.

I didn't play enough MP in MW4 to know if it had anything similar.

MW4 multiplayer consisted in it's entirety of poptarting at 800m +.

Lights were completely and utterly worthless, as lasers were hitscan, and super powerful. Most decent pilots could easily one shot them, or at least do enough damage to casually remove them from the fight. Sometimes though you'd have one as a fast harasser, and send it to try and bait the enemy team - but only so they could entice enough mechs to chase the squirrel... into a favorable position for your jump snipers to get them.

Sometimes, sometimes... you'd fill a MadCat with ERLL and ridge hump.

Mediums were generally garbage too, unless you could fill one with ERLL, and hope no-one noticed you.

Heavies could pretty much be two shot, but hey, that's one shot more than lights and mediums.

And then you get to the top - where the 'variety' came in. Assaults. Specifically, 95 tonne gladiators, and 100 tonne everything else with JJ's and ECM - and 'variety' meant you'd be able to equip something other than ERLL and remain competitive - usually a crapload of gauss, or ERPPCs.

Then some of the expansions came out, and you'd sit in your black knight filled with PPC's, using 3rd person to survey the battlefield safely, waiting for someone to peek... so you could jump snipe them.

In MM4, the band for meta was extremely narrow, and you either bought into it, or you were annihilated, with ease. I did play some somewhat competitive games with friends, but I ended up bored as hell. All my fun mechs were crap if they didn't jump snipe. You needed a special type of devotion to keep doing that. You either played your gladiator with ECM and poptarted like a good little team player or you you were a liability.

Stock modes were fun though.

It's why I hate poptarting in this game - because It was pretty much the premier and only effective playstyle in past titles, and was boring as hell. MWO almost turned into it for a while, although at shorter range (but only because of map design).

People talking about PVP balance in the last titles are absolutely looking at it through rose tinted glasses. MWO has done something that no other MechWarrior title has - and that is open up roles for mechs other than assaults and specific edge case lighter mechs.

[Pjwned]

Ghost heat is a bad system that needs to go away and be replaced by properly addressing convergence, which is the real issue here.

However...

Ghost heat was made to counter stacking PPFLD weapons, and to me it's rather odd that PGI took so long to do this if they intend to keep (the garbage system that is) ghost heat around.

I would rather see gauss and PPCs being balanced without worrying about the gauss + PPC combo, if that's what it takes to have things like proper projectile velocity for ER PPCs (which is a result of the gauss + PPC ghost heat link, and a good thing) or maybe even better jumpjets later on.

Edited by Pjwned, 15 July 2017 - 03:38 PM.

[Evan20k]

The GaussPPC meta is a myth right now. Since the last patch, clan laser vomit has been dominant. And that's not changing anytime soon given the C-ERML buffs.

[Registerfault]

Just in time too, dual heavy gauss dual heavy ppc was about to be a thing.

[Imperius]

Xetelian, on 15 July 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

Ghost heat is not the answer to fixing this problem.

I honestly don't know what will fix it but snipers with ERPPC are already super hot and they fire, hide, fire, hide, fire, hide.


You're just going to make them hide for 3-5 seconds longer while they cool off from a little extra heat.


That is not enough to stop a NTG from jump sniping to 1500 damage in 6 minutes of play.

It's how you make the maps... yet everyone keeps going for the easy XML bandaids.

Edited by Imperius, 15 July 2017 - 03:50 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Registerfault, on 15 July 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

Just in time too, dual heavy gauss dual heavy ppc was about to be a thing.

Yeah and how fast do you go with how much ammo and how many DHS? lol (Read: that's bs because you can't fit that on anything)