176 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

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If not, two PPC's two UAC5's could be a decent poptart build replacement.

and theres nothing wrong with that. it does an acceptable amount of PPFLD. only 30 damage.

that is far more acceptable than dual gauss/dual ppc hitting you for 50 damage.

[Tarl Cabot]

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For my 2 cbills I am way more concerned over the changes to clan ermls as I see those used WAY more than gauss/ppc. Next month (or perhaps the month after) the hit to what I suspect will be predominantly IS weapons is going to be epic (I see the gauss/ppc being a clan tech nerf since most IS mech run gauss/ppc pretty halfassed).

This, as it puts them closer to IS LL again but only taking 1 slot and 1 ton vs 2 slots and 5 tons. They used to see lots of work in FP combined w/GR on TWolves until PGI cut their max range down, breaking up the synergy they had.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 15 July 2017 - 12:26 PM.

[Khobai]

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For my 2 cbills I am way more concerned over the changes to clan ermls as I see those used WAY more than gauss/ppc

CERML got longer duration, longer cooldown, and higher heat. So even with the higher range laser vomit wont be nearly as good as it was before.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 15 July 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

and theres nothing wrong with that. it does an acceptable amount of PPFLD. only 30 damage.

that is far more acceptable than dual gauss/dual ppc hitting you for 50 damage.

Define acceptable, cause to me its unacceptable that jagermech carries same alpha as king crab and its not even about this specific combo.

Look at direwhale.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e4960e8179c435c
this would be ******* scary, but this aint allowed.

So it cant brawl because 2 uac20 haram
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b41302bde008852
while it can carry 3 easily...

It cant brawl with lighter load because its not agile enough.

I wonder why it isnt viable...

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 12:48 PM.

[Khobai]

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Define acceptable, cause to me its unacceptable that jagermech carries same alpha as king crab.

so focus on something the king crab is better at than jagermechs? like dps builds.

jagermech cant come close to the king crab for dps because the king crab can take heavier dps weapons

with alpha damage being capped, assaults are going to be thrust into more of a dps role in order to maintain an advantage in firepower

all they need to do is fix the assault mech torso twist values and assault brawlers will be GO for launch.

Edited by Khobai, 15 July 2017 - 12:42 PM.

[FupDup]

Don't you generally need to slightly stagger fire with GoosePeeps at range because of how different the velocities are (800 m/s is pretty significant)? I don't think that this is going to have as big of an impact as word on the street says.

[Khobai]

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Don't you generally need to slightly stagger fire with GoosePeeps at range because of how different the velocities are (800 m/s is pretty significant)? I don't think that this is going to have as big of an impact as word on the street says.

correct. at long range you generally did stagger them. unless a target was standing still.

but long range isnt where the PPFLD abuse was taking place. It was taking place at short and medium ranges where the velocity disparity mattered far less.

and yeah its not going to have much of an impact on the game aside from people not being able to shoot you in the CT for 50 instant damage from 400m-500m away. quite frankly I can live without that.

and all the claims that laser vomit is going to rise to dominance and replace gauss/PPC are overexaggerated. Because lasers are about as close to a fair weapon as it gets in this game. If you get cored out by lasers you know the reason why, because you stood there for the full beam duration and took it to the face. But with lasers you arnt getting instacore jump sniped from one-third of the way across the map .

Edited by Khobai, 15 July 2017 - 12:51 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 15 July 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

Don't you generally need to slightly stagger fire with GoosePeeps at range because of how different the velocities are (800 m/s is pretty significant)? I don't think that this is going to have as big of an impact as word on the street says.

You don't have to stagger them to the tune of half of a second, but otherwise I agree. The impact will be less than expected. KDK-3s and MAD-IIC were already leaning on the Gauss pretty hard for heat and they often fired the ERPPC separately for convergence reasons. Night Gyr with 2+2 will be dead, but the 2+1 configuration will emerge all but unscathed unless the heat spike for firing just 1 PPC with two Gauss puts it over 70% heat.

I expect the BNC-3E, MAL-2P, and eventually the NSR to still be able to run big PPC+Gauss fairly well, though it will be eclipsed by Dakka + PPC.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 15 July 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

so focus on something the king crab is better at than jagermechs? like dps builds.

jagermech cant come close to the king crab for dps because the king crab can take heavier dps weapons

with alpha damage being capped, assaults are going to be thrust into more of a dps role in order to maintain an advantage in firepower

all they need to do is fix the assault mech torso twist values and assault brawlers will be GO for launch.

Even with dps builds, lik 6 ac2 or 4 uac5 kgc still aint a viable choice...
I wonder why

also mech which was designed around carrying 2 heavy ballistics in arms i just bad at it, makes sense.

Imo keep low mobility but allow 100 tonner to carry 100 tonner worthy weaponry, like 3 gausses or dual ac20.

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 12:53 PM.

[Khobai]

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And even with dps builds, lik 6 ac2 kgc still aint a viable choice...

well IS really needed the light ac2 and light ac5 far more than they needed the uac2 and uac5.

I was pushing for the light ACs to get added to the game. thats the only way I can see the AC2 making a comeback.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 15 July 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

well IS really needed the light ac2 and light ac5 far more than they needed the uac2 and uac5.

I was pushing for the light ACs to get added to the game. thats the only way I can see the AC2 making a comeback.

I dont see it.
lac5 yeah sure, mauler and kgc will slap 6 of them and go onto rampage, though kgc should still be capable of carrying 8 with ammo to spare.
lac2 trash tier still... might be fun on ravens.

but then what can you do, ac2 was pretty bad at tt and its faults went over to mwo.

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 01:00 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

AC2 always seemed liek an odd weapon for MWO.

An obvious DPS weapon, but with silly range. The LAC2, at 2/3 the weight would likely find a lot more use, as the range of the AC2 is pretty useless.

[MechaBattler]

Fleeb the Mad, on 15 July 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

Gonna be honest, shedding no tears.

Long range poking has been well entrenched and has made gameplay much more dull and repetitive than it should be. This might also mean they can undo some of the velocity nerfs to PPCs since they failed to break the potency of the combination.

They did actually buff ERPPC velocity. For both factions. Though the IS got way more velocity.

[Y E O N N E]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

lac2 trash tier still... might be fun on ravens.

A pair of LAC/2 would have DPS similar to a single UAC/5 for one ton less. It would have paired extremely well with UAC/5, outright replacing the quad-UAC builds with 2xUAC/5 + 4x LAC/2 on 'Mechs with 6xB for its more consistent performance.

Unless, of course, they lowered the rate of fire on them to keep AC/2 relevant. Which would be awful.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 15 July 2017 - 01:04 PM.

[davoodoo]

Jay Leon Hart, on 15 July 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

AC2 always seemed liek an odd weapon for MWO.

An obvious DPS weapon, but with silly range. The LAC2, at 2/3 the weight would likely find a lot more use, as the range of the AC2 is pretty useless.

the problem with light ac2 is that it weights 4 tons while light ac5 weights 5.

so for 1 extra ton(25%) you get 3 dmg(150%).

also if you take light acs you didnt really care about range to begin with.

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

A pair of LAC/2 would have DPS similar to a single UAC/5 for one ton less. It would have paired extremely well with UAC/5, outright replacing the quad-UAC builds with 2xUAC/5 + 4x LAC/2 on 'Mechs with 6xB for its more consistent performance.

Unless, of course, they lowered the rate of fire on them to keep AC/2 relevant. Which would be awful.

imo no, they would be replaced by 6 lac5 and even 8 lac5 if hardpoints ever allow.
8 lac5 is basically ppfld quad uac5 which never jams for mere 4 tons extra.

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 01:07 PM.

[FupDup]

Jay Leon Hart, on 15 July 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

AC2 always seemed liek an odd weapon for MWO.

An obvious DPS weapon, but with silly range. The LAC2, at 2/3 the weight would likely find a lot more use, as the range of the AC2 is pretty useless.

I've suggested an AC/2 rework that turns it into a "pocket sniper" weapon with higher upfront damage but lower DPS, but this would require PGI to have a weapon that doesn't follow a pre-established formula. In this case, the formula is that AC/X = You always deal X damage per one mouse click no exceptions.

PGI doesn't like deviating from formulas.

I would've wanted to try the AC/2 at firing a burst of 2 shells that each deal 2 damage, every 2 seconds. Call it the 2-by-3 rule if you will. 4.0 alpha strike and 2.0 DPS.

The nice part is that this fits PGI's formula that every step on the AC ladder increases your DPS by 1.0, and right now the AC/2 is the outlier in this formula.

[Jay Leon Hart]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

the problem with light ac2 is that it weights 4 tons while light ac5 weights 5.

so for 1 extra ton(25%) you get 3 dmg(150%).

Which is a problem with all the "2" class ACs, tbh. I think they only builds I have that still use AC2s are a Blackjack, an Adder and a Night Gyr. They're all worse than most other builds I run on those chassis.

[davoodoo]

FupDup, on 15 July 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

I've suggested an AC/2 rework that turns it into a "pocket sniper" weapon with higher upfront damage but lower DPS, but this would require PGI to have a weapon that doesn't follow a pre-established formula. In this case, the formula is that AC/X = You always deal X damage per one mouse click no exceptions.

PGI doesn't like deviating from formulas.

I would've wanted to try the AC/2 at firing a burst of 2 shells that each deal 2 damage, every 2 seconds. Call it the 2-by-3 rule if you will. 4.0 alpha strike and 2.0 DPS.

The nice part is that this fits PGI's formula that every step on the AC ladder increases your DPS by 1.0, and right now the AC/2 is the outlier in this formula.

It could be done, increase cooldown and make it into burst fire that deals 2 dmg per shell.

But yeah, they already went with that on uac...

Jay Leon Hart, on 15 July 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

Which is a problem with all the "2" class ACs, tbh. I think they only builds I have that still use AC2s are a Blackjack, an Adder and a Night Gyr. They're all worse than most other builds I run on those chassis.

Only way i could see ac2 useful is ap ammo and crit buffs.

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 01:11 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

imo no, they would be replaced by 6 lac5 and even 8 lac5 if hardpoints ever allow.
8 lac5 is basically ppfld quad uac5 which never jams for mere 4 tons extra.

6x LAC/5 would be 450 meters. At 450 meters, you don't have the distance to flay 'Mechs apart with DPS before they close to brawl-ranges. The only reason 'Mechs like the Mauler worked with 5-6x AC/5 or 2x UAC/5+3xAC/5 is because they had the range to do that work.

On the other hand, UACs (perhaps even 3x UAC/5 with 3x LAC/2 or 4x UAC/5 + 2x LAC/2 for an effective 5x UAC/5) with LAC/2 still synchronize all but perfectly, offer better range, and offer greater total output. The niche for LAC/5 will be on lighter 'Mechs, most notably to outright replace the AC/10.

[Koniving]

Why not just fire them back to back like, you know, CLASSIC mechwarrior / Battletech? It's only half a second's difference if you start with the Gauss Rifles and then follow up with the ER PPCs.



The 'upgrade' to this Quad Gauss setup was to put in 2 ER PPCs to compliment two Gauss and back them up with 4 MGs and/or 2 MGs and a missile launcher. It's worked very well for me for years.

This new change won't affect me, just stop some of the instant kill nonsense. Now you got to use "SKILLz" to make your kill by being able to successfully follow up the first shot with a second on the same place! (Sorry CoD 360 no scopers, we've turned the Aim Assist off.)