201 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

I've found 3x9 or staggered 2x6x2 to be sustainable for a lot of firepower.

For pug queue anyway. Again, not a weapon I'd take to FW or group queue except for derping.

Edited by MischiefSC, 19 July 2017 - 12:24 PM.

[Suko]

I have tried to make numerous builds work, but I just can't seem to utilize the ATM. The crux for me is that they have a min range and the "optimal" range is that of an SRM. For how heavy and crit hog they are, this just won't work. I was hoping that these would have no minimum and would have a nice range (before damage drop) of ~450m. But as it is, I'll just stick with LRMs. I suspect that this is going to be a dead weapon system for a long time, because micro buffs aren't going to save this weapon.

[Clanner Scum]

Illuminous Owl, on 19 July 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

Not trying to be a jerk, but it's not ATM's fault you're averaging 3-450. I can reliably pull off 1k+ damage in both my ATM crow and my 4x ATM12 Supernova. I have no problem with min range. 4x ATM 12 hits so hard at 300m nothing should survive if you're positioned right.

I've been using an ATM lacerator as well. What's your loadout? I've tried 4xATM6, but I find its very hot. The cooldown on them are very long too. What's your strategy? Mid range firesupport or front line missiles in your face?

[Khobai]

Quote

I suspect that this is going to be a dead weapon system for a long time, because micro buffs aren't going to save this weapon.

It doesnt need major buffs either though.

It just needs no min range, 2.4/2/1.6 damage steps, and 1.5 health per missile

that makes them more tactical. They sacrifice short range damage, but lose the min range and do more damage at long range, and they gain better resilience against AMS which also helps them perform better at medium and long range.

So instead of just being a bland 120m-270m weapon system their role is greatly expanded so theyre useful at all range bands.

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2017 - 12:57 PM.

[Naluca]

ATM's are a weak and useless. They are too situational. Even in fast mechs you can't keep distance against other fast mechs. I couldn't shake a Pheinox hawk that only had hvy machines guns in my shadow cat with ATM's because I could not get distance. In any of the urban maps they end up being useless once the push happens or you get tired up in the buildings like in River City. Only on open maps against slow to medium speed mechs does the weapon have any use. AMS and LAMS massively reduces damage. They need to remove the minimum range if they expect ATMs to continue to see any use for the long term, otherwise as painful as it is to say LRMs have far more tactical flexibility than The Advanced Tactical Missile

Edited by Naluca, 19 July 2017 - 01:21 PM.

[Lux Monolithic]

Acehilator, on 19 July 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

Yeah, 270m or bust. Shame that 4x 12s are too hot to be usable... but lowering the heat would probably make them OP, lol. 4x 9s work great.

Chainfire.

Naluca, on 19 July 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

ATM's are a weak and useless. They are too situational. Even in fast mechs you can't keep distance against other fast mechs. I couldn't shake a Pheinox hawk that only had hvy machines guns because I could not get distance. In any of the uban maps they end up being useless once the push happens. Only on open maps against slow to medium speed mechs does the weapon have any use. AMS and LAMS massively reduces damage. They need to remove the minimum range if they expect ATMs to continue to see any use for the long term.

Practice.

[Khobai]

Quote

Yeah, 270m or bust. Shame that 4x 12s are too hot to be usable... but lowering the heat would probably make them OP, lol. 4x 9s work great.

Its not so much that 4x ATM12s are too hot.

Its more the fact you cant take 4 medium pulse lasers as backup weapons

x4 ATM9s and x4 MPL on the supernova has been working well for me

But ATM min range still needs to be removed, they need their damage profile changed to 2.4/2/1.6, and they need more missile health to survive AMS.

[Brain Cancer]

I can't imagine using ATMs without some kind of backup weapon to cover the deadzone. I've got a few lasers on my Orion IIC and even the LRMs do something outside of up-your-nose range. The more I use them, the more I think HMLs might be an even better idea.

[Clanner Scum]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

Its not so much that 4x ATM12s are too hot.

Its more the fact you cant take 4 medium pulse lasers as backup weapons

x4 ATM9s and x4 MPL on the supernova has been working well for me

But ATM min range still needs to be removed, they need their damage profile changed to 2.4/2/1.6, and they need more missile health to survive AMS.

I'm currently running 2xATM12 and 1xermicro in the head. That .25 ton back up laser is practically free if you strip some armor off the head and little off the legs.

[Khobai]

1 ermicro isnt much of a backup lol

Quote

The more I use them, the more I think HMLs might be an even better idea.

the problem with HMLs is they take up 2 crit slots

which can adversely effect how many DHS or how much ammo you can take

thats why I opted not to use them on my supernova. I thought about HSL though but ultimately decided MPL were the best option

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2017 - 01:10 PM.

[Vanguard319]

Naluca, on 19 July 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

ATM's are a weak and useless. They are too situational. Even in fast mechs you can't keep distance against other fast mechs. I couldn't shake a Pheinox hawk that only had hvy machines guns because I could not get distance. In any of the uban maps they end up being useless once the push happens. Only on open maps against slow to medium speed mechs does the weapon have any use. AMS and LAMS massively reduces damage. They need to remove the minimum range if they expect ATMs to continue to see any use for the long term.

If you're using ATMs without a backup weapon to fill the minimum range, then you deserve to be killed when someone inevitably closes with you, stick some hvy sm lasers or even micro lasers on your build.

[Clanner Scum]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

1 ermicro isnt much of a backup lol

Well it's better than nothing at all...

It's all I can fit on my Lacerator within reason anyway. I need atleast 6 or 7 tons of ammo because these things apparently are ammo hogs. And they're kinda hot too. So gotta throw some DHS's in there.

Edited by Clanner Scum, 19 July 2017 - 01:18 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

the problem with HMLs is they take up 2 crit slots

Yeah, I'm that crit-starved that an extra two crits would be knocking off a DHS or two tons of ammo into engine weight instead. Not a horrible tradeoff, but.

[1453 R]

Tried a Huntsman with three ATM-9 and five Heavy Smalls (Biggie Smalls?). Among other ATM experiments. It was actually a lot of fun, though finding the right angles was tricky, yes. I don't like wasting ammo on 1-damage long-range fire despite the missiles actually having half a prayer of getting there (current LAMS Burnaggeddon notwithstanding), simply because it feels like a waste of munitions...but the 2-damage band is usable and the 3-damage band, narrow as it is, is extremely satisfying to catch someone in. The HSLs also cover the deadzone pretty perfectly - if you're inside my ATMs, you're in perfect range for my HSLs.

The 2.4 / 2 / 1.6 thing feels crappy to contemplate. ATMs that're barely weaker or stronger at their various ranges are weird; you're supposed to be weighing your options on whether flinging some 1-damage keep-dat-head-down rounds, or plinking at a retreating foe you're trying to finish off before he hits cover, is worth tossing a rack of munitions out there with reduced damage. The 2.4 / 2 / 1.6 doesn't really reward you for spit for saving munitions for that close range sweet-spot range band - a barely-noticeable 0.8-damage boost from Weak to Strong is not very sexy. Knowing you're pounding somebody for Big Damage inside your sweet-spot range band gives you a lot of incentive to play that footsie game and keep your ATMs mobile, and furthermore it gives lighter mechs an actual, semi-viable one-launcher option that didn't exist before.

ATMs are in a funky spot, from my admittedly limited experience of them. I do not like that minimum range band, but by the same token I suppose the 3-damage Supah Whammy warheads wouldn't be an option without it, and outside of the minrange footsie games I find ATMs to be interesting to play with. Much more so than heavy lasers, and the less said of micros the better...so ATMs are sort of the only thing I get worth fiddling with on the Clan side.

Ergo I'ma fiddle. And hopefully they don't buttmurder the HE range bracket down to 2.4 because that would just be sad.

[MischiefSC]

Brain Cancer, on 19 July 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

I can't imagine using ATMs without some kind of backup weapon to cover the deadzone. I've got a few lasers on my Orion IIC and even the LRMs do something outside of up-your-nose range. The more I use them, the more I think HMLs might be an even better idea.

3xatm9, uac10 and 2 cermls. It's probably the best ATM build I can put together. Great weapon synergy around the 30pm range. Lean on firepower and survival, get all the range quirks to push out that 3pt damage sweet spot to 300m.

It's not bad. You can make it work. Just with a min range they're never going to be a "serious" weapon. They're for clubbing timid pugs in QP and farming damage.

[Rusharn]

So far my experience in the tier 2 group queue is that their performance is underwhelming. I have tried them on a shadow cat, Linebacker, Hellbringer, and MAD IIC-B. ASM and LAMS is too effective against them, over lapping ECM is a hindrance to locking on, fighting in tight quarters is impossible, and if they are being used as a primary armament with secondary weapons they force you to fall back during an enemy push. With all the IS mechs getting faster or more firepower, falling back during an enemy push is very difficult especially against high skilled enemies assuming that it is tactically wise to fall back in the first place. The need to constantly fight for that "sweet spot" position against a highly mobile force in the higher tiers while having so many hard counters makes the ATM's really not have a place in high tier play.

Edited by Rusharn, 19 July 2017 - 02:10 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Are people really so messed up over the 120m min range on those ATMs? Its much better than with LRMs and all you need to do is get in a couple shots against someone before they get in min range and pack a few HMLs with you to finish the job once they close. Just be aware of your surroundings and stick with the team.

[MischiefSC]

HMLs so bad/hot, long burn. MPL, cerml IMO.

[Suko]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

It doesnt need major buffs either though.

It just needs no min range, 2.4/2/1.6 damage steps, and 1.5 health per missile

that makes them more tactical. They sacrifice short range damage, but lose the min range and do more damage at long range, and they gain better resilience against AMS which also helps them perform better at medium and long range.

So instead of just being a bland 120m-270m weapon system their role is greatly expanded so theyre useful at all range bands.

I agree with your assessment, but from what I've seen of PGI in the last 6 years, I consider all that a "Major" adjustment for them (PGI). I mean, how long did it take them to give MG's the buff they needed? It was years....and some would say that buff wasn't even much at all.

[Dr Mlem]

I don't know how I feel about ATMS. They really require that your mech have some speed to make sure you can keep mechs in your optimal zone. Overall it feels a little clunky, and disappointing. But at least they hit for a metric s**t ton of damage.

It's really just a toss up to me, I would prefer at least the dead range be at 90, but I doubt they will do that because PGI will PGI.