1809 replies to this topic

[Horseman]

naterist, on 03 May 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

https://www.courtlis...42820.122.1.pdf

harmoney golds exhibit A in there reply to pgis reply to harmoney golds reply to pgis request for summary judgement.

this is the liscensing agreement between tatsunoko and harmoney gold dated to march 22 2012, and it says this is the current contract, and all other contracts are null and void and this is the only one that counts.

it says that hg has the merchandising rights to macross, and thats it. also denies hg the rights to any video game adaptations. this seems like a smoking gun against HG that says they have no rights to the characters, just the right to market the movie, and it explicitly states no video games, and hbs battletech and mwo are video games.

so they admit not having the rights to the characters AND no rights to a video game version of macross. and harmoney gold is giving the courts this. it seems to directly contradict what theyve been saying about their rights and everything. it does say it expires in 5 years unless resigned, but they wouldnt have entered it as evidence if it wasnt still valid right?

That licensing agreement does not deal with the SDF Macross series, but with SDF Macross: Do You Remember Love, which is not the same thing.

DFM, on 03 May 2018 - 06:28 PM, said:

I keep seeing people say, BW ordered tatsunoko to have HG sue on their behalf. HG has even said this.

What HG hasn't provided is PROOF of that. Oh they've said a bunch, quite literally, "She-said,He-said,They-said" or I'm HG's lawyer, and their lawyer told me that they told them that

evilauthor, on 03 May 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

IIRC, Big West ordered HG to sue someone - some Brazilians making a Robotech fan movie I think - once and only for that specific case. Which is a far cry from giving HG carte blanche to sue anyone and everyone HG feels like in Big West's name.

This is a purported copy of the associated e-mails: https://drive.google...68bWcmoC8K2TAgc

Edited by Horseman, 03 May 2018 - 08:14 PM.

[Alan Davion]

Well, today's the day the judge should render a decision on PGI's request for Summary Judgement, unless something happened recently to push that back any further, though I think we would have seen something to that affect in recent documents.

Everyone, start praying that PGI wins this. We need it.

[ShadoVulcan]

Either that or HG was not able to show proof they had a case and it was dismissed without prejudice.

[Alan Davion]

ShadoVulcan, on 04 May 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

Either that or HG was not able to show proof they had a case and it was dismissed without prejudice.

HG must be in absolute panic mode right now. They've never actually needed to show proof they owned the stuff they don't actually own because they're used to just bullying people around with their money. At least until they tried tangling with Hasbro. What the hell were they smoking when they thought THAT was a good idea?

[evilauthor]

ShadoVulcan, on 04 May 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

Either that or HG was not able to show proof they had a case and it was dismissed without prejudice.

Which is still a win for PGI... assuming the Judge rules appropriately.

[Sereglach]

ShadoVulcan, on 04 May 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

Either that or HG was not able to show proof they had a case and it was dismissed without prejudice.

Actually, PGI's request was for dismissal with prejudice. If HG can't show proof that they actually have a case, then the judge would just grant PGI's dismissal with prejudice by default.

As it stands, HG has made an "argument", but from the views of everyone that's looked over the documents . . . it's pretty hollow. Whether or not it makes enough of an argument for HG to push the case forwards, or not, is up to the Judge. However, that said, their latest maneuver for a letter rogatory would probably push the case back ANOTHER 1-2 years, and even the judge appears to be getting sick of HG's delaying tactics given the Rule 11 threat even before that request was made.

Thankfully PGI's had their ducks in a row and has been hammering back at everything HG has put forward with ruthless legal efficiency. The pages upon pages of thoroughly documented legal precedent have -in my opinion (not a lawyer, etc.)- thoroughly blown all of the double and triple hearsay and inadequate documents HG has been using as "evidence" out of the water.

[Shadowomega1]

Saw someone Having Rule 11 posted in Massive bold letters and got excited, read back though the comments and realized I got my hopes up.

If anyone has pacer access updates should be tonite at midnight.

[Imperius]

Shadowomega1, on 04 May 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

Saw someone Having Rule 11 posted in Massive bold letters and got excited, read back though the comments and realized I got my hopes up.

If anyone has pacer access updates should be tonite at midnight.

Sorry man it’s what I want and expect to happen. I think we all want it tbh.

[DFM]

Shadowomega1, on 04 May 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

Saw someone Having Rule 11 posted in Massive bold letters and got excited, read back though the comments and realized I got my hopes up.

If anyone has pacer access updates should be tonite at midnight.

a gent on the battletech - International FB page has been amazing at posting them up so we can all pore over them and play virtual lawyer with them.

[DFM]

Horseman, on 03 May 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

That licensing agreement does not deal with the SDF Macross series, but with SDF Macross: Do You Remember Love, which is not the same thing.



This is a purported copy of the associated e-mails: https://drive.google...68bWcmoC8K2TAgc

Whats funny about that doc is actually a couple of things.

1. HG went after Hasbro on it's own. This still baffles me in a way that why would a company like HG that is notorious for dragging things along, stalling, drowning their opposition in court costs, and aiming for settlements that they can claim as victories going after a company with that many IP's and the suits to protect em. Ever get the feeling that Hasbro rolled in and was like "Really? Ok, fine. If this goes to trial, we're going to bury you. Once we do, you're going to pay our counsel fee's, THEN, we're going to counter-sue. Oh, by the way, do you remember which company actually has a legal licensed version of the transforming toy you are suing us over in this country? Dutch? Sure, that's fine with us too. With prejudice."

2. HG provides yet another document that shows BW owns the characters in question, NOT HG and that they won't infringe upon those rights.

Isn't claiming something as your own(As they have done multiple times) infringing upon the actual owner?

3. If this is the document people are reading and saying "BW is ordering HG to sue!" Actually they ordered them to issue C&D demands. Over unlicensed, exact copies of BW IP.

4. Although technically still hearsay with no proof, BW seems to indeed turn HG into it's ***** with rubberstamp approval of Tatsunoko. Basically, "Since you decided to jump at Hasbro for copyright infringement of designs which you said you would be careful about infringing, you're gonna do it whenever we tell you."

5. Of interesting note, on a not all rosy front, is that last part that says BW/TP are willing to do it if HG doesn't. Now, that doesn't mean that BW would have gone after PGI, as it's peaches to nectarines in these cases, not apples to apples(like the Hasbro, VF-1(yadda yadda, IDFC what head it has on it making it what version of the damn thing it is) to the fan fic VF-1...

[Ace Selin]

Down with HG

[Imperius]

Monday / Tuesday we hopefully will know if we’re drinking to celebrate or mourn pgi’s win or loss.

[Valdarion Silarius]

From what I'm understanding over on the bg.battletech thread, it sounds like PGI and Catalyst games (IMR) are in this fight together now against HG. I originally thought Catalyst defaulted and had nothing from Harmony Gold to be sued over for. It's kind of hard to sue a company that doesn't have the money that you are trying to claim.

Zilly wanted to know why he should give HG a chance for 10 defendant slots to be used in this case. Since HBS and Weisman were already dismissed, it's boiling down to PGI and IMR since the Judge wanted to know why he should "hold the door open" for more potential defendants.

Imperius, on 05 May 2018 - 05:47 AM, said:

Monday / Tuesday we hopefully will know if we’re drinking to celebrate or mourn pgi’s win or loss.

I think it's a little too early to be jumping to conclusions. We should hear what Zilly wants to do next with this case at least by the 18th (or shortly after it) if we hear nothing on Monday or Tuesday.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 05 May 2018 - 06:58 AM.

[Horseman]

Arnold The Governator, on 05 May 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

I originally thought Catalyst defaulted and had nothing from Harmony Gold to be sued over for. It's kind of hard to sue a company that doesn't have the money that you are trying to claim.

Catalyst HAS defaulted.

[Foxfire]

To be honest.. given the history between BT and HG, it wouldn't surprise me if PGI didn't have a lot of legal documentation prepared early on in the life cycle of MWO for what was the inevitable response by HG for what they were doing with MWO.

Hence, if HG was relying on their old tried and true tactics of bullying anyone out of the designs by the prospects of the sheer legal costs involved with defending them (e.g. See FASA settlement), PGI would be ready to go to slap down their arguments when the lawsuit came. Hence why HG thought they could get away with their old tactics until PGI slapped them down... hence the Letter of Rogatory request and admission that HG didn't actually prepare for a legal claim once someone actually stood up to them and said 'Oh hell no!'

[Alan Davion]

Foxfire, on 05 May 2018 - 09:24 AM, said:

To be honest.. given the history between BT and HG, it wouldn't surprise me if PGI didn't have a lot of legal documentation prepared early on in the life cycle of MWO for what was the inevitable response by HG for what they were doing with MWO.

Hence, if HG was relying on their old tried and true tactics of bullying anyone out of the designs by the prospects of the sheer legal costs involved with defending them (e.g. See FASA settlement), PGI would be ready to go to slap down their arguments when the lawsuit came. Hence why HG thought they could get away with their old tactics until PGI slapped them down... hence the Letter of Rogatory request and admission that HG didn't actually prepare for a legal claim once someone actually stood up to them and said 'Oh hell no!'

Not to mention that pretty much all the documents HG has submitted pretty much boil down to "we own the designs cause we say we own them", and resort to nothing but attacking everything PGI says while doing nothing to actually prove they own the stuff that they don't actually own.

It's no surprise HG is trying to delay everything with that letter rogatory request, there's literally no way in hell they could have prepped for this because they've never needed to prep before. They completely underestimated PGI's willingness to fight back and have probably been running around like chickens without their heads for the last year.

[MechaBattler]

Alan Davion, on 05 May 2018 - 09:52 AM, said:

Not to mention that pretty much all the documents HG has submitted pretty much boil down to "we own the designs cause we say we own them", and resort to nothing but attacking everything PGI says while doing nothing to actually prove they own the stuff that they don't actually own.

It's no surprise HG is trying to delay everything with that letter rogatory request, there's literally no way in hell they could have prepped for this because they've never needed to prep before. They completely underestimated PGI's willingness to fight back and have probably been running around like chickens without their heads for the last year.

Russ implied they'd saved a sizable warchest exactly for this scenario. And he seemed more confident after speaking with Jordan about previous cases. So it's possible he knew they had no real leg to stand on and would try to bully PGI into settling. Let's just hope that warchest is deep enough to wade through the BS and finally put an end to this farce.

[DFM]

MechaBattler, on 05 May 2018 - 10:06 AM, said:

Russ implied they'd saved a sizable warchest exactly for this scenario. And he seemed more confident after speaking with Jordan about previous cases. So it's possible he knew they had no real leg to stand on and would try to bully PGI into settling. Let's just hope that warchest is deep enough to wade through the BS and finally put an end to this farce.

And why i'll continue to spend $20 at least of my disposable income(More than that likely, daddy went back to work! Yaay for healed Knee's!) a month to support PGI. Sure, things may not be the greatest, there might be issues, but supporting the game even if it's not contributing to the warchest for the suit is beneficial to us all. Why continue a suit if they let the game die. This is about fighting for the future, than it is about MWO.

Even all the PGI haters and people that have said someone else should buy the rights, the cesspool of what can/can't be used and potential lawsuits isn't exactly endearing to potential projects, ya know?

[Seraphic Law]

Hopefully, PGI will put HG in their place and we can post this image.

[Juodas Varnas]