119 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

XXL
Extra-Extralight Fusion Engine
Acts Much like an IS XL but has only 25% of the Weight of a Standard Engine
taking up 6Crits in each Side torso, but as IS-XL ST Destruction will Cause Death,
Experimental 3055(see Below for Stats on XXL Engine & Tonnage Per Rating)
-
But how much Tonnage will LFE save you?
Below is a List of how much Engines Weigh,
Size-............STD..............LFE...............XL.............XXL-...
100-..............1.0................0.5...............-0.5...........-1.0......
110-..............2.5................2.0................1.0.............0.5......
120-..............3.0................2.0................1.0.............0.5......
130-..............4.5................3.5................2.5.............1.5......
140-..............5.0................4.0................2.5.............2.0......
150-..............6.5................5.5................4.0.............3.0......
160-..............7.0................5.5................4.0.............3.0......
170-..............7.0................5.5................4.0.............3.0......
180-..............9.0................7.5................5.5.............4.5......
190-..............9.5................8.0................6.0.............4.5......
200-.............11.5...............9.5................7.5.............6.0......
210-.............13.0..............11.0...............8.5.............7.0......
220-.............14.0..............11.5...............9.0.............7.5......
230-.............15.5..............13.0..............10.5............8.5......
240-.............16.5..............14.0..............11.0............9.0......
250-.............18.5..............15.5..............12.5...........10.5......
260-.............19.5..............16.5..............13.0...........10.5......
270-.............20.5..............17.0..............13.5...........11.0......
280-.............22.0..............18.0..............14.0...........11.5......
290-.............23.5..............19.5..............15.0...........12.0......
300-.............25.0..............20.5..............15.5...........12.5......
310-.............27.5..............22.5..............17.5...........14.0......
320-.............29.5..............24.0..............18.5...........14.5......
330-.............31.5..............25.5..............19.5...........15.5......
340-.............34.0..............27.5..............20.5...........16.0......
350-.............36.5..............29.5..............22.0...........17.0......
360-.............40.0..............32.0..............23.5...........18.0......
370-.............43.5..............34.5..............25.5...........19.5......
380-.............48.0..............38.0..............27.5...........21.0......
390-.............53.0..............41.5..............30.0...........22.5......
400-.............59.5..............46.5..............33.5...........24.5......
(Yes these Tonnage Numbers are Correct for XXL Engines)
as per reduced shielding with the Engine, resulting in increased heat,
its labeled as having Double the Movement heat, as well as its Bulk,


Clan is known to have this Technology but it wasnt Production until 3084(or Later)
Clan Versions only take up 4ST Crits, but like the above ST Loss results in Death,

Note as this is Experimental Tech its unlikely to be added,
but its still interesting to see just what exactly you could do with XXL Engines

Special Thanks to FLG 01, for finding the Correct Production Dates,

FLG 01, on 24 July 2017 - 04:22 AM, said:

So how would you use the XXL engine?
could this help boost some Builds with IS Lights / Mediums?
what Crazy things would you do with an XXL Engine,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 24 July 2017 - 01:59 PM.

[DaMuchi]

The idea of losing a st and dying is very bad. That being said, it can only be run on lights and mediums. But clan lights and mediums are all omni mechs and therefore probably won't be used in any viable build.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Honestly at the point where we get XXL engines double heatsinks would become useless due to a lack of slots for them even with a Clan mech.


I support our XXL plus single heatsink meta.

[evilauthor]

In MWO? It'd probably render the XL completely obsolete. The extra heat is likely to be a pittance compared to what the mech normally generates, and the extra CBill cost isn't going to deter people who already have hundreds of millions of CBills already stockpiled.

Without some major nerfing (like using XXL nerfing ALL your heat sinks), XXLs basically replace XLs.

[DaMuchi]

evilauthor, on 23 July 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

In MWO? It'd probably render the XL completely obsolete. The extra heat is likely to be a pittance compared to what the mech normally generates, and the extra CBill cost isn't going to deter people who already have hundreds of millions of CBills already stockpiled.

Without some major nerfing (like using XXL nerfing ALL your heat sinks), XXLs basically replace XLs.

Note that this is clan tech. So xxl vs xl is the difference between lfe and xl for IS. Saying clan xl will be made obsolete because of xxl is like saying the IS xl has made lfe obsolete.

[Y E O N N E]

evilauthor, on 23 July 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Without some major nerfing (like using XXL nerfing ALL your heat sinks), XXLs basically replace XLs.

If the IS one only took 8 ST slots, you would probably be right. But because it takes 12, you are extremely hampered in what you can do. All you really get away with is six or so ERML, maybe one or two LL, and then you need a very big engine to get enough sinks in.

DaMuchi, on 23 July 2017 - 09:02 PM, said:

Note that this is clan tech. So xxl vs xl is the difference between lfe and xl for IS. Saying clan xl will be made obsolete because of xxl is like saying the IS xl has made lfe obsolete.

XXL is not Clan Tech. Both sides have it and, IIRC, the IS had it first.

[Andi Nagasia]

DaMuchi, on 23 July 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

The idea of losing a st and dying is very bad. That being said, it can only be run on lights and mediums. But clan lights and mediums are all omni mechs and therefore probably won't be used in any viable build.

well Clan do have the JR7-IIC, and the HBK-IIC, and they are gatting 3 ArcticWolf BattleMechs,
so maybe it could be an Option for them, but mostly how can you see them effecting IS Mechs?

Dakota1000, on 23 July 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

Honestly at the point where we get XXL engines double heatsinks would become useless due to a lack of slots for them even with a Clan mech.

I support our XXL plus single heatsink meta.

well as the lack of DHSs are a problem i dont think they will help Energy Builds,
but they could help with mechs they run Missiles or Ballistics, UM, COM, RVN, JVN, ect,

evilauthor, on 23 July 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

In MWO? It'd probably render the XL completely obsolete. The extra heat is likely to be a pittance compared to what the mech normally generates, and the extra CBill cost isn't going to deter people who already have hundreds of millions of CBills already stockpiled.

Without some major nerfing (like using XXL nerfing ALL your heat sinks), XXLs basically replace XLs.

not really if you Run an Energy Light, then a normal XL would likely be better for you as less heat,
but if you run missiles or non-MG Ballistics on your Lights this may help allot as your already cool,

Promessa, on 23 July 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

Could be a lot of fun, more options are nice. It's something to do with mechs that use XL and have a bunch of side torso slots. Raven 3L comes to mind. The weight savings seems pretty low though. Are those TT numbers? I know our engines are different.

Oh, I think it's meant to be 1/3rd weight of std (ofc that doesn't translate exactly into mwo), that makes the chart make more sense.

yes all my Numbers are Correct,
(Engine Weight + Cockpit Weight + Gyro Weight) -1Ton for each external HS(Initial 10) under 250Rating)

[Andi Nagasia]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 July 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

If the IS one only took 8 ST slots, you would probably be right. But because it takes 12, you are extremely hampered in what you can do. All you really get away with is six or so ERML, maybe one or two LL, and then you need a very big engine to get enough sinks in.

Currect, with an IS Mech thats 6Crits taken up in each ST,
that means it would be hard to put Endo + Ferro on a Mech with a XXL Engine,
(as you would only have 6ishCrits left)(13ishCrits assuming you took Light Ferro)

Yeonne Greene, on 23 July 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

XXL is not Clan Tech. Both sides have it and, IIRC, the IS had it first.

yes looking in my TROs ect,
i found that the Earliest IS had it was 3055, as Experimental Tech,
Production Tech after 3064, when it became more of an option via Production lines,
-
Clan had access to it as Experimental tech since before the Clan Invasion,
but it didnt enter production until about into the Dark Ages 3068-78ish,

as PGI has only ever implemented Production Tech, we should get XXL Engines(im hoping)
but as its still experimental Tech for Clan, it may take awail for them to get theirs,

Promessa, on 23 July 2017 - 09:12 PM, said:

Oh and one more thing: five times as expensive as a comparable XL engine

Please God no. Make it 50% more. That's just stupid.

Buys a Mech for 6,000,000 C-bills, goes to buy an XXL engine for it, 36,000,000,....

[Alcom Isst]

Promessa, on 23 July 2017 - 09:12 PM, said:

Oh and one more thing: five times as expensive as a comparable XL engine

Please God no. Make it 50% more. That's just stupid.

I'm baffled as to why engines are so expensive compared to everything else in the first place. Cost should scale with significance. It's way more exciting to buy and equip an Ultra Autocannon 20 instead of replace an engine with a light fusion variant, yet the engine is like three times more expensive, and purchasing engines feels like a chore, unlike shiny boom boom weapons which I look forward to.

As if the only consideration of price was canonicity and immersion, which would make more sense in a single player MechWarrior than a F2P MechWarrior, but here the monetary balance is super awkward.

Incidentally, MechWarrior 2: Mercs ^{if I recall correctly and I might not} allows you to upgrade an engine instead of replace it, with a cost difference being applied instead of the entire cost of a new engine. Adding this to MWO would also happy reduce the engine grind.

[Adept Richard III-gamma]

Dear lord the C-Bill cost! Not all of us are "Richer than Blake"

[C4NC3R]

Dakota1000, on 23 July 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

Honestly at the point where we get XXL engines double heatsinks would become useless due to a lack of slots for them even with a Clan mech.


I support our XXL plus single heatsink meta.

Lol... XXL only DHS no SHS XXL's exists.

[C4NC3R]

Dude you forgot... the finnest piece of ex-tech which drives 100 tonn Atlas or Devastator up to 73kmph without Tweaks and MASC's with a cost of a half of dropship.

E-LAR 440(Bi-LAR440) 23 tonns, deadmounted, overrided with 24 DHS built in also deadmounted, suitable for Dual-HGR carriers

[C4NC3R]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 July 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

XXL
Extra-Extralight Fusion Engine
Acts Much like an IS XL but has only 25% of the Weight of a Standard Engine
taking up 6Crits in each Side torso, but as IS-XL ST Destruction will Cause Death,
Production Date 3055(see Below for Stats on XXL Engine & Tonnage Per Rating)
-
But how much Tonnage will LFE save you?
Below is a List of how much Engines Weigh,
Size-............STD..............LFE...............XL.............XXL-...
100-..............1.0................0.5...............-0.5...........-1.0......
110-..............2.5................2.0................1.0.............0.5......
120-..............3.0................2.0................1.0.............0.5......
130-..............4.5................3.5................2.5.............1.5......
140-..............5.0................4.0................2.5.............2.0......
150-..............6.5................5.5................4.0.............3.0......
160-..............7.0................5.5................4.0.............3.0......
170-..............7.0................5.5................4.0.............3.0......
180-..............9.0................7.5................5.5.............4.5......
190-..............9.5................8.0................6.0.............4.5......
200-.............11.5...............9.5................7.5.............6.0......
210-.............13.0..............11.0...............8.5.............7.0......
220-.............14.0..............11.5...............9.0.............7.5......
230-.............15.5..............13.0..............10.5............8.5......
240-.............16.5..............14.0..............11.0............9.0......
250-.............18.5..............15.5..............12.5...........10.5......
260-.............19.5..............16.5..............13.0...........10.5......
270-.............20.5..............17.0..............13.5...........11.0......
280-.............22.0..............18.0..............14.0...........11.5......
290-.............23.5..............19.5..............15.0...........12.0......
300-.............25.0..............20.5..............15.5...........12.5......
310-.............27.5..............22.5..............17.5...........14.0......
320-.............29.5..............24.0..............18.5...........14.5......
330-.............31.5..............25.5..............19.5...........15.5......
340-.............34.0..............27.5..............20.5...........16.0......
350-.............36.5..............29.5..............22.0...........17.0......
360-.............40.0..............32.0..............23.5...........18.0......
370-.............43.5..............34.5..............25.5...........19.5......
380-.............48.0..............38.0..............27.5...........21.0......
390-.............53.0..............41.5..............30.0...........22.5......
400-.............59.5..............46.5..............33.5...........24.5......
(Yes these Tonnage Numbers are Correct for XXL Engines)
as per reduced shielding with the Engine, resulting in increased heat,
its labeled as having Double the Movement heat, as well as its Bulk,


Clan is known to have this Technology but it wasnt Production until 3068(or Later)
Clan Versions only take up 4ST Crits, but like the above ST Loss results in Death,


So how would you use the XXL engine?
could this help boost some Builds with IS Lights / Mediums?
what Crazy things would you do with an XXL Engine,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

And now show to people the price list please

[ingramli]

For IS:
XXL will certainly replace XL. If u are dead losing a ST no matter which one u choose, why not go for a lighter one? (the slots are not of much significance if one can put a XL on it anyway), the lights will go for XXL for sure, can be a tough call for medium/heavies though, probably not for Assaults which should use a LFE/STD.

For Clans:
Worthwhile for lights, for medium it can be hard to decide as they get ST safe XL engines, probably not an option for heavies and a big no for assaults.

Edited by ingramli, 23 July 2017 - 10:01 PM.

[C4NC3R]

ingramli, on 23 July 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

For IS:
XXL will certainly replace XL. If u are dead losing a ST no matter which one u choose, why not go for a lighter one? (the slots are not of much significance if one can put a XL on it anyway), the lights will go for XXL for sure, can be a tough call for medium/heavies though, probably not for Assaults which should use a LFE/STD.

For Clans:
Worthwhile for lights, for medium it can be hard to decide as they get ST safe XL engines, probably not an option for heavies and a big no for assaults.

Man, XXL300 cost as 5 brand new shiny DireWolves for both IS and Clan, and fragile as thin piece of glass, even single scratch on thee will make your mek go boom. XXL is the most useless tech EVER cause single C-ERPPC ir HPPC hit will turn you to a viewers side of the game.
As I told only when Ex-Tech and at least 5 100 tonners to each side would be implemented in game we can get handfull of use from XXL's and E-LAR 440 engines. Before that... XXL is a RIP-OFF.

[Requiemking]

C4NC3R, on 23 July 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

Man, XXL300 cost as 5 brand new shiny DireWolves for both IS and Clan, and fragile as thin piece of glass, even single scratch on thee will make your mek go boom. XXL is the most useless tech EVER cause single C-ERPPC ir HPPC hit will turn you to a viewers side of the game.
As I told only when Ex-Tech and at least 5 100 tonners to each side would be implemented in game we can get handfull of use from XXL's and E-LAR 440 engines. Before that... XXL is a RIP-OFF.

Ah, my friend, you forget. With XXL, a Hunchback IIC can mount all the LPLs it wants, with only minor heat death for the pilot.

[C4NC3R]

Requiemking, on 23 July 2017 - 10:57 PM, said:

Ah, my friend, you forget. With XXL, a Hunchback IIC can mount all the LPLs it wants, with only minor heat death for the pilot.

Son, you forgot the price of that XXL drive)))))))))))))

VLAR300 (XXL) coast from 12kk C-Bills to 16kk C-Bills depending the TRO period.

[FupDup]

I would only want the XXL engine for the Wulfen Clan Omnimech. It's one of the few gundams that actually make good use of that thing, being a 30-ton light with a 300-rated engine, Stealth Armor, JJs, and still 10 tons of pod space left over for weaponry.

Edited by FupDup, 24 July 2017 - 03:03 AM.

[C4NC3R]

FupDup, on 24 July 2017 - 03:01 AM, said:

I would only want the XXL engine for the Wulfen Clan Omnimech. It's one of the few things that actually make good use of that thing, being a 30-ton light with a 300-rated engine, Stealth Armor, JJs, and still 10 tons of pod space left over for weaponry.

Fup... the problem is that you'll gonna be alive untill first shot of C-ERPPC or HPPC. Than your desired mek will go BOOOM... cause you know the rules. XXL structure strength is just 30% of an average IS XL drive, almost same as E-LAR drive. For both sides, Clan and IS.
Driving a glass cannon is kinda a dangerous you know.

[MustrumRidcully]

The best use for all the extra tonnage would probably be heavy ballistics, but the 6 slots blocked in each side torso might pose a problem there, since many ballistics won't fit anymore.
It will probably only make sense on mechs that could afford using an XL Engine before.

If you can raise your engine rating by 50 points, the extra slots will basically replace 2 IS DHS (on Clans, it would need to be an improvement of 75 points).


I guess it would be fine for light mechs, and it might create some new ballistic light mechs that were unfeasible before.


The prices of course are absurd... If any of the XXL mechs become "meta" builds, it will probably be reserved for the richest of the rich.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 24 July 2017 - 03:11 AM.