182 replies to this topic

[Maxor]

ingramli, on 03 August 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

in QP solo queue so often (i'd say ~70% of games) that the opposite team get better players, or better teamwork to smash my team, we need some sort of mechanism to balance the potato/solo teams and the coordinated units, i can think of two methods,

1. Put "penalty weight" on good players
- Increase the heat generates when they fire their guns;
- increase the crit chance when they have some component exposed;
- decrease the damage dealt by their weapons

2. Limiting the effectiveness of team communication
- Introduce consumables/equipment that can jam the communication (text/voip) of the opposite team (for example, mech within ECM range of the opposite team (in disrupt mode) disallows one to send any wheel command/ voip or text message until he/she get out of the ecm effective range.

Until we have some sort of remedy, the gaming experience in solo queue wont improve......

First off I massively disagree but lets run through your arguments and see where you went wrong on this subject.

1. This would never fly. In any game that has some component of competitive play (basically 99% of them) you'd never see individuals restricted just because they perform better. High performance should be rewarded not punished. Imagine if this was imposed in real sports. For example, lets say your a world class basketball player in the NBA and all of a sudden for your next match your legs are bound together because your ability to run and jump is so great its unfair to everyone else even though you put in the effort to improve yourself. Its just a ridiculous notion.

2. In the past some companies have actually tried this...and it failed. Why? Because most organized groups of gamers use third party VOIP programs like Ventrillo, Teamspeak, Mumble and Discord. No company is going to open the potential lawsuit doors of having the game ban or remove people running such software (privacy issues). This kind of thinking is actually dangerous because if PGI did impose this it would actually make the situation worse for you. Since the in-game Voip is the only means for random players to communicate quickly then you just took away the only thing that levels the playing field against an organized group. This is akin to trying to fix a broken radio with dynamite. Sure the radio being broken isn't issue anymore but now you have no radio :/

Now lets discuss solutions to the very issues you are experiencing. Ironically enough the solutions you want you already listed.

1. Improve yourself. "Adversity grows character" Read up on how to improve handling your mech, looking for enemy weak spots in their armor (info gather and visually), practice torso twisting, etc..Spend 5 minutes googling and you'll find tons of **** that can help. Not to mention look up your mech specifically on Sarna (battletech DB) and read what its intended role was in the BT universe. This tends to translate fairly well into MWO.

2. Its a pain in the *** but if you're gonna ***** about team leadership then TAKE CHARGE AND LEAD. Use the in-game VOIP to keep your team alert and organized. A ****** plan is better than having no plan! Also make use of the in-game call out system. You'd be surprised how many people actually focus a target better when you use the "Target Spotted" call out.

TLDR; The matchmaker in MWO is **** (read other ppls posts) but its clear there are things you can still do to alleviate the issues you are having.

But I'm glad you've brought back the discussion on the new player experience as it is still really bad. Ideally they should give newbies 4 mechs (1 of each weight class) so you can at least fill a drop deck with custom mechs)

Edited by Maxor, 03 August 2017 - 12:55 PM.

[MaximusPayne]

McValium, on 03 August 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

[mod] Removed quite some posts that were not constructive. Please keep all comments on topic and constructive. [/mod]

Aw, man. I had a good one ready to go too.
Anyway, the best way to level the playing field is to play with and against better players and increase your own personal skill lelvel. Yep, it sucks to lose but the wins are alot more fulfilling when they start to arrive. Learn by burn, dude. Suit up and get in the game.

[Leggin Ho]

ingramli, on 03 August 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

in QP solo queue so often (i'd say ~70% of games) that the opposite team get better players, or better teamwork to smash my team, we need some sort of mechanism to balance the potato/solo teams and the coordinated units, i can think of two methods,

1. Put "penalty weight" on good players
- Increase the heat generates when they fire their guns;
- increase the crit chance when they have some component exposed;
- decrease the damage dealt by their weapons

2. Limiting the effectiveness of team communication
- Introduce consumables/equipment that can jam the communication (text/voip) of the opposite team (for example, mech within ECM range of the opposite team (in disrupt mode) disallows one to send any wheel command/ voip or text message until he/she get out of the ecm effective range.

Until we have some sort of remedy, the gaming experience in solo queue wont improve......

All I can say and it's not going to help you is LMFAO.

Please it's a game, Take charge of your team and push them to victory, don't punish other players for doing the things you won't or can't do.

[Stahlherz]

Löl.

[ALKALIN3]

This is hands down the dumbest thing i've ever read.

[Metaccini Alfredo]

mogs01gt, on 03 August 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

You/we are simply dealing with a low player population. There is now way to fix it other than redo a lot of the changes that PGI has implemented that make players not want to play.

Roll it back to the last day of 8v8 and people would come flooding back.
Then we could have good vs good potatoes could... co-tato? And people could go back to having fun.

- Ditch regional servers, or randomize server selection completely.
- Get rid of public stats, except those from "competitive mode". People would stop obsessing about stats and just go have fun.
- Get rid of the boring gamemodes. Waiting 15 minutes to play escort is infuriating.
- Get rid of all of the complicated mechanics that are only there to create false depth. We know what you're doing. Stop it and add actual content.
- Actually develop some new maps. (We develop in cryengine. PGI's excuses for how long maps take is false.)
- Hire a project manager who can objectively shepherd projects to completion. Russ can't be objective, he has to be "right". Usually won't back down on completely terrible decisions or statements. An objective project manager would *get things done* and could make decisions based on what is the better decision, not what someone fired off on twitter and now needs to try to make true.
- Hire real community management instead of social media distractions. Heck, just bring Garth back.
- Flatten differences between clan and IS - give clans a blanket range advantage and a blanket heat penalty. Maybe even lower ghost heat thresholds by 1 for each class of energy weapon vs. IS.
- Undo the rescale on lights. It's absurd. They were only OP to the select few that were good at them. The ember was never OP, it was simply really good at it's niche. The problem was a lack of player awareness. Add a rearview camera and set the size of lights back to where they were.

Edited by Metaccini Alfredo, 03 August 2017 - 01:39 PM.

[FETTY WAP]

nice meme

[Erufen]

Metaccini Alfredo, on 03 August 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

Roll it back to the last day of 8v8 and people would come flooding back.
Then we could have good vs good potatoes could... co-tato? And people could go back to having fun.

- Ditch regional servers, or randomize server selection completely.
- Get rid of public stats, except those from "competitive mode". People would stop obsessing about stats and just go have fun.
- Get rid of the boring gamemodes. Waiting 15 minutes to play escort is infuriating.
- Get rid of all of the complicated mechanics that are only there to create false depth. We know what you're doing. Stop it and add actual content.
- Actually develop some new maps. (We develop in cryengine. PGI's excuses for how long maps take is false.)
- Hire a project manager who can objectively shepherd projects to completion. Russ can't be objective, he has to be "right". Usually won't back down on completely terrible decisions or statements. An objective project manager would *get things done* and could make decisions based on what is the better decision, not what someone fired off on twitter and now needs to try to make true.
- Hire real community management instead of social media distractions. Heck, just bring Garth back.
- Flatten differences between clan and IS - give clans a blanket range advantage and a blanket heat penalty. Maybe even lower ghost heat thresholds by 1 for each class of energy weapon vs. IS.
- Undo the rescale on lights. It's absurd. They were only OP to the select few that were good at them. The ember was never OP, it was simply really good at it's niche. The problem was a lack of player awareness. Add a rearview camera and set the size of lights back to where they were.

1. Why should I be forced to play with a high ping? There is literally no benefit to it.
2. People will still be the one assault who ran and hid from the battle the second 2 reds showed up, because "muh pixels".
3. It is rare when I have to wait for more than 5 minutes to find a match. I usually play what's needed, and the game will tell you what to pick.
4. To some extent, I agree with this.
5. I agree 100% to this. $250k for a map is still funny today.
6. No comment
7. No. Why stop there? Why not make all lights/medium/heavies/assaults feel and behave exactly the same? Diversity and variety are good things.
8. No. I'm hardly a good player. Hell, my scores are barely above average. The only lights I struggle against are the truly small ones, like the commando and locust. The only lights i struggle with are the jenners. Rescale is just fine.

[YourSaviorLegion]

Just K town this thread lol

[Metaccini Alfredo]

Erufen, on 03 August 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

1. Why should I be forced to play with a high ping? There is literally no benefit to it.
2. People will still be the one assault who ran and hid from the battle the second 2 reds showed up, because "muh pixels".
3. It is rare when I have to wait for more than 5 minutes to find a match. I usually play what's needed, and the game will tell you what to pick.
4. To some extent, I agree with this.
5. I agree 100% to this. $250k for a map is still funny today.
6. No comment
7. No. Why stop there? Why not make all lights/medium/heavies/assaults feel and behave exactly the same? Diversity and variety are good things.
8. No. I'm hardly a good player. Hell, my scores are barely above average. The only lights I struggle against are the truly small ones, like the commando and locust. The only lights i struggle with are the jenners. Rescale is just fine.

1. People are either going to complain about match quality, or ping. Match quality is currently very poor, and it's a direct result of subdivision of the playerbase (3 regions, multiple game modes) and low population. HSR is makes playing with pings up to ~180 totally fine. I'd be ok with ditching the oceanic servers, but I'm trying to be fair to our oceanic bros here.
2. You don't build around edge-case scenarios. Thats why they're edge case scenarios.
3. That's you. I have several accounts, on a few of them matches take forever, on the others, not as much.
4. False depth man, false depth. It's what they've been milking for years.
5. Yeah it's absurd. Seriously, please explain how Polar Highlands cost 250k. It's basically a 3d scan of a broken plate.
6. OK rad
7. They *didn't* all feel the same. When torso twist speed was linked to engine size, well, every different sized engine felt different. There are constant complaints about balance - fine, remove some of the variables that are complicating balance - result: less time spent balancing, time returned to the developer, they can reallocate resources.
8. That's what the forum whining was that resulted in the rescale. I never had an issue hitting them either, but thats because I took the time to get good with lights. Once you're that familiar with the performance parameters of your opponents, it's much easier to kill them. I *prefer* light mechs, because the playstyle of standing in front of one another and holding down mouse1 doesn't appeal to me. I like mech combat to feel like fencing, and lights give me that. Some of the rescales are terrible though - firestarters are obscenely huge now. I can still run them, but I see a lot of people not even willing to try because its all the size without the agility and armor.

For a F2P game to be successful, you have to:
1. Attract new players. How do you do this? Word of mouth, positive reviews, media.
2. Retain existing players. How do you do this? Keep them coming back for more, provide them with *real* depth and continuing challenges.
3. Monetize. How do you do this? It's called "value". At present, the value proposition for spending money on MWO is very poor. The population is low, so fewer people play which lowers the population. It lends the game a "dead" feeling, regardless of how many people actually play. Why would someone spend 40 dollars on a mech, then spend a bunch of time waiting for a match to run it, which winds up being escort?

All the above being said, this *is* the most immersive *mechwarrior* game I have ever played, and it's what keeps me coming back. Can't escape the feeling that it could be so much more - these days I'll pop online for 30 minutes a few times a week. Around open beta-ish? Pretty much any time I was home and not busy with something, I was playing MWO. I was pumping in an easy 100 bucks a month back then, in mechs, colors, etc., because I *believed* in the game. I no longer pay money into it, because I haven't found anything worth that money. I'm not here to discourage players from trying the game, I'd love to see it grow again and flourish, but... some of the decisions made are decidedly anti-customer. F2P was the wrong model for this game. Should've cost money up front, then offer premium time. They'd have gotten a lot more up-front development money and wouldn't have languished in beta for so long.

Edited by Metaccini Alfredo, 03 August 2017 - 02:20 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

I am at a loss for words? (Walks off muttering to self.)

[On1m]

Oh man, that was a good laugh.

As someone who you would no doubt describe as a good player I can honestly tell you that I have never once used the in game VOIP and I very rarely use chat to do anything other then say "gg" at the end of the match.

My suggestion to the OP would be to put the joystick away and use a mouse so you can aim. Also, the only answer to skilled opponents is to improve your own skills.

[LordBraxton]

recently hit tier 1 and I still see the same matchups, as in; totally random and there really isn't a matchmaker at all

[Chef Kerensky]

The more things change,

Ha ha ha

[Khobai]

Quote

In any game that has some component of competitive play (basically 99% of them) you'd never see individuals restricted just because they perform better.

because other games have actual player bases and working matchmakers

but when you have neither of those things, and you have to mix good players with bad players just to get enough players together to get a game started, you really do need to handicap the good players somehow.

otherwise the bad players wont have fun and will simply go play another game. and this game cant afford to lose more players.

the way the game is setup now its a downward bleeding spiral that cant hold onto new players and slowly but continually hemorrhages its established player base. thats not a formula for success.

This game needs to stop catering to tryhard comp players that are less than 5% of players and appeal more to casuals and potatos that make up the 95% majority. Allowing comp players to constantly drive a wedge in the player base like theyve been for so long is not helping this game. Its going to be the end of it.

Edited by Khobai, 03 August 2017 - 03:53 PM.

[Xmith]

ingramli, on 03 August 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

in QP solo queue so often (i'd say ~70% of games) that the opposite team get better players, or better teamwork to smash my team, we need some sort of mechanism to balance the potato/solo teams and the coordinated units, i can think of two methods,

1. Put "penalty weight" on good players
- Increase the heat generates when they fire their guns;
- increase the crit chance when they have some component exposed;
- decrease the damage dealt by their weapons

2. Limiting the effectiveness of team communication
- Introduce consumables/equipment that can jam the communication (text/voip) of the opposite team (for example, mech within ECM range of the opposite team (in disrupt mode) disallows one to send any wheel command/ voip or text message until he/she get out of the ecm effective range.

Until we have some sort of remedy, the gaming experience in solo queue wont improve......

Keep in mind, all your suggestions go both ways. Your team will be handicapped as well.

It won't make any difference. The same players you want to nerf will just make a few adjustments and continue to improve their game.

[Trenchbird]

Having read the beginning, I'm convinced pretty thoroughly that the OP should find the door and find a game he or she will enjoy more than this one.

This isn't a socialist or communist utopia with those doing better losing stuff to people who are doing worse because they are doing better. This is a damn video game, a (For the most part) skill-based challenge. Seriously, just "Git gud". Not even trying to bully or anything, just find groups, be active, and freaking learn.

Otherwise, just wait until MW5 comes out, so you don't have to worry about the big bad longtime, skilled players stomping you.

Edited by Catten Hart, 03 August 2017 - 04:37 PM.

[Willard Phule]

Mystere, on 03 August 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

That was true with the old Elo system. We no longer have that.

Ok, and back to the same old argument.

Is it operating in any noticible way at all from the previous version? Yes, I am aware of all the "published" differences, but ultimately....are brand new players in free mechs being tossed in with the "top tier" people just like the last time?

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, odds are...it's a duck.

Look, I'm NOT complaining. If the game play is going to be "potato" (to use the common vernacular), then I say be better at it than they are and just rack up cbills.

[ingramli]

Brain Cancer, on 03 August 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

How do you determine "good"?

One problem is a PSR system that does nothing to even attempt to determine "good", being only an exp bar.

Another one is a system that breaks trying to find 24 players in the same tier range, despite shoving bad players constantly into ever-higher tiers. Penalizing good players does nothing with a broken MM, other than encourage them to stop playing and make the problem even worse.

You fix the first problem by increasing the match scores required to gain/maintain/avoid losing PSR with each tier. A T1 should be constantly performing quite well to avoid PSR loss, while a T5 with the same score is jumping upwards in leaps and bounds towards T4,T3 etc.

You fix the second problem by flexible team sizes in QP. If the game cannot find 12v12 within it's range, it tries for 8v8. If not 8v8, 4v4. If for some reason not 4v4, it opens the "safety valves" a bit and checks again with the wider range for 12v12, 8v8, 4v4...

I disagree, after 1 year of playing, i didnt advance beyond T4, which i think PSR is doing its job, i am not good enough to complete with those T3 or above, simple as that.

[ingramli]

Mister Blastman, on 03 August 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

[Redacted]

Bad or not, i played for 1 year, and will continue to play. Unless PGI banned me from playing, you may some day dropped in the same team with me, unless you dont play solo queue at all. Hope you have good time with me or someone with similar skill level.

On1m, on 03 August 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Oh man, that was a good laugh.

As someone who you would no doubt describe as a good player I can honestly tell you that I have never once used the in game VOIP and I very rarely use chat to do anything other then say "gg" at the end of the match.

My suggestion to the OP would be to put the joystick away and use a mouse so you can aim. Also, the only answer to skilled opponents is to improve your own skills.

I am using a mouse, and watched hundreds of youtube tutorial videos (including those from TheB33f and Sean Lang) already. Thanks for your suggestion anyway.

Edited by McValium, 03 August 2017 - 11:23 PM.
quote cleanup