112 replies to this topic

[o0m9]

Racerxintegra2k, on 06 August 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

Suicide Lights ... Hey guys there they are, now I'm dead and you are short a mech. Sorry buddy we knew where they were going to be for the most part the maps haven't changed !!!

I prefer the term 'noble sacrifice.'

In my defense, I kept like two assault mechs and two mediums (and a light was in there somewhere, I think) occupied for a full two minutes while everyone else slammed into their firing line. So it worked out. Wish I'd actually been rewarded for it but it worked out.

[Black Ivan]

Tier is not equal skill. Tier is only an XP bar, nothing more. It shows how many games you played

[Shifty McSwift]

Zergling, on 08 August 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

64.8 kph is the top speed of a Kodiak without MASC (which only the Spirit Bear has) or speed tweak nodes.

Aside from that, both the Marauder IIC's and Mad Cat Mk II's best brawler builds only hit 64.8 kph too; and they are frequently built to be a bit slower than that.

65 is more than workable as a speed, I mean the fact it can do 70 as a 100 ton mech is fricking amazing, but it is definitely rare to see someone in a 400 engine after decoupling, 375 or 350 is much more likely. It shocks me that people often don't take the speed tweaks at all, I feel like the KDK3 in particular NEEDS a near maxed mobility tree, but I have never had less than the 60% of speed tweak buff on my KDK5, currently it does 63.4 kph, and yeah, if you don't stop to peep snipe every 250m, you can move with the bulk of your team easily... I mean unless they are literally non stop top speed nascarring right from drop.

That speed though is such a strong advantage on a massive weapons platform style mech like the KDK, I think people underestimate it a bit, until of course 2 kdks, 2 madIICs and 4 ebon jags come flying around a corner on top of their position.

[Zergling]

Shifty McSwift, on 08 August 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

65 is more than workable as a speed, I mean the fact it can do 70 as a 100 ton mech is fricking amazing, but it is definitely rare to see someone in a 400 engine after decoupling, 375 or 350 is much more likely. It shocks me that people often don't take the speed tweaks at all, I feel like the KDK3 in particular NEEDS a near maxed mobility tree, but I have never had less than the 60% of speed tweak buff on my KDK5, currently it does 63.4 kph, and yeah, if you don't stop to peep snipe every 250m, you can move with the bulk of your team easily... I mean unless they are literally non stop top speed nascarring right from drop.

That speed though is such a strong advantage on a massive weapons platform style mech like the KDK, I think people underestimate it a bit, until of course 2 kdks, 2 madIICs and 4 ebon jags come flying around a corner on top of their position.

They can work at less than 65 kph speed; both the Scorch and Mad Cat Mk II-2 should probably drop a little speed for more heatsinks, and they work fairly well in QP.

[Reza Malin]

Vellron2005, on 06 August 2017 - 11:50 PM, said:

Here's what you can do though:

1) Stop being a bullying tryhard.
2) Accept that people play with different styles and builds
3) Accept that player population is currently too low for the MM to work properly.
4) Instead of bulling people with posts like this, or in-game voip tryhardism, TEACH THEM. Invite them into training sessions (they are free now). Show them why certain things work and don't work. Teach them to play LRMs, snipe, and brawl effectively.
5) Approach them with a positive attitude, instead of a negative one. Explain to them in a peaceful, helpful manner, why what they are doing is counter-productive. DO NOT force your playstyle and build meta on them. Instead, help them find what works for them.

If you do at least some of the above stated, maybe the result will be a positive outlook on the game, and then maybe they invite their friends, the playerbase grows, and the MM will be able to do it's job, and you will get matched with "potatoes" less..

Also.. one important thing..

Don't call inexperienced players potatoes.. its rude..

I like this guy.

Well said mate! If people are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.

Edited by Reza Malin, 08 August 2017 - 03:11 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Zergling, on 08 August 2017 - 02:53 AM, said:

They can work at less than 65 kph speed; both the Scorch and Mad Cat Mk II-2 should probably drop a little speed for more heatsinks, and they work fairly well in QP.

Well when you have some 25+ heatsinks already lol... But yeah I know what you mean. To be honest I have always considered both the mad iic and KDK to way too fast in max speeds, and with the linbeacker included there now too, clans can be super fast for their roles. With the mobility nerfing it kind of evens out in ways, but still... By comparison their speeds are yuge.

[Pxranger]

Racerxintegra2k, on 07 August 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

Man i'd hate to live in your world. No discussion allowed. Black or white no 50 shades of grey for you. I think players being matched based on skill is a very important issue that should be addressed. I'm guessing most players take your advice and simply stop playing. That attitude doesn't really help the people that stick around.

That's not what he's saying. at all. If anything, your post is basically Black or white, "If you can't play to my standards, then you suck." He, and several others are saying, you (as in everyone, not calling you out here) are not as good as you think you are, and need to realize that. Sometimes shithappens, I've been called out on it, and if it's constructive and relevant at the moment it happens, I am fine with it.

Everyone makes bad decisions at times in game. Watching some guy making bad tactical choices while watching in spectator mode then ripping his *** over in chat afterwards is not helpful. and yes, we have people that are just starting this game get dumped in with guys that have been playing since beta. don't be toxic about it.

Edited by Pxranger, 08 August 2017 - 05:08 AM.

[Albino Boo]

Zergling, on 08 August 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

64.8 kph is the top speed of a Kodiak without MASC (which only the Spirit Bear has) or speed tweak nodes.

Aside from that, both the Marauder IIC's and Mad Cat Mk II's best brawler builds only hit 64.8 kph too; and they are frequently built to be a bit slower than that.

65 kph means that the match is already over by the time you get anywhere in conquest, domination and escort. So those are not the best brawler builds in quick play because you cannot contribute in armor or damage at the objective. You cannot expect the other 11 players on your team to throw away the advantages of speed becasue of slow mechs. A high alpha is pointless if its 8 v11 before you have fired shot. 65 kph mechs work when you are in group play because at least some of your team knows what to expect and are willing to adjust to you. That isn't going to happen in a pug.

Edited by Albino Boo, 08 August 2017 - 06:25 AM.

[InfinityBall]

Black Ivan, on 08 August 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

Tier is not equal skill. Tier is only an XP bar, nothing more. It shows how many games you played

It can run backwards, you know

[RussianWolf]

Zergling, on 07 August 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

The matchmaker works by trying to average out the skill level of the teams. It will balance the few high skill players on a team, by teaming them with much lower skill level players, to produce an average skill level to match the enemy team.

While that means each team would (theoretically) have an equal chance of winning, it means the high skill players will usually be teamed with a greater number of low skill teammates than normal.

Eg, an average player would, on average, get teammates that are about 50% good, 50% bad.
A high skill player however, might get something like 30% good, 70% bad.

So while each team theoretically has an equal chance of winning, what it means is that a high skill player has to play some level above average just to maintain a 50/50 chance of winning.
In effect, a high skill level player has to put in more effort to receive the same rewards (winning) than a player of lesser skill.

That was how the MM worked when we used ELO. With PSR they simplified it. The MM starts with a set tier, say T3. It then pulls in as many T3s as possible. If it can't fill out the full 24 then it spreads the net to T2 and T4..... if all is lost, then it spreads to T1 and T5. Originally, T1 could ONLY be matched with T1-3s and T5s could only be matched with T3-5s. Now I do understand that because of long queue times they relaxed the MM to go to a 4 tier spread, but they have always maintained that T1s and T5s would never meet in Solo queue.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Again, this is with the understanding that PSR is inherently flawed and not all T1s are "good" players, but that's not to do with the MM.

So again, being a T1 and randomizing the MM, your odds of being matched with T5s increases dramatically and that isn't what you want (or is it). If anything you should be clamoring for them to fix the broken PSR system to actually have meaning.

[BlueStrat]

InfinityBall, on 08 August 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

It can run backwards, you know

I'm living proof PSR/Tier# goes **down** as well as up!

I swear for a while there I was jumping between T3 & 4 almost every other solo-PUG match! Made it as high as about two/three letters-width into T3.

Been stuck in T4 for a few months, but lately I seem to be doing better and am currently about 2 letters-width from crashing T3 once again, from being as low as more than halfway-down T4 this latest & longest down-swing.

Edited by BlueStrat, 08 August 2017 - 10:13 AM.

[H I A S]

InfinityBall, on 08 August 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

It can run backwards, you know

You have to be utter trash to not raise the bar...lol

[RussianWolf]

H I A S, on 08 August 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

You have to be utter trash to not raise the bar...lol

leveling urbies in stock config can do it too... can't count the times I was left behind and swarmed under by 2-3 fast lights.

[Grus]

I see you played a game with either Carl Vickers or Pat Knell lol but they kinda have some sway in what they say and why.

[MW222]

Zergling, on 06 August 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

Other potatoes include:

The "wannabe drop caller"; he orders the team to push-push-push... right into an enemy firing line. Then he refuses to admit he did anything wrong when the team gets chewed up.

The "damage is all the matters" guy. Calls the rest of the team 'noobs' and 'bads', because he did ok damage on a loss, in his LRM boat assault.

The "I'm playing the objective!" guy. This is the player that goes off and attacks/caps the enemy base in incursion/assault, leaving the team a player down in the fight against the enemy team. Refuses to admit he contributed to the team losing by doing this, because 'I'm playing the objective!'.

The days of 8-10 vs 12 seem to have dwindled down to a precious few. The games seem to have gone to full all or nothing.

PGI knows this and should be concerned, the continual stomp or get stomped with little or no middle ground it not a good thing.

[MW222]

RussianWolf, on 08 August 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

That was how the MM worked when we used ELO. With PSR they simplified it. The MM starts with a set tier, say T3. It then pulls in as many T3s as possible. If it can't fill out the full 24 then it spreads the net to T2 and T4..... if all is lost, then it spreads to T1 and T5. Originally, T1 could ONLY be matched with T1-3s and T5s could only be matched with T3-5s. Now I do understand that because of long queue times they relaxed the MM to go to a 4 tier spread, but they have always maintained that T1s and T5s would never meet in Solo queue.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Again, this is with the understanding that PSR is inherently flawed and not all T1s are "good" players, but that's not to do with the MM.

So again, being a T1 and randomizing the MM, your odds of being matched with T5s increases dramatically and that isn't what you want (or is it). If anything you should be clamoring for them to fix the broken PSR system to actually have meaning.

You for got the escape subroutine, the OH FACK 'tell me three times has failed' Dump all now engaged. Result T3, 4, 5 vs 12 man pre-made.............followed by stomppity stomp, stomp........stomp!

[Athom83]

Shifty McSwift, on 08 August 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

65 is more than workable as a speed, I mean the fact it can do 70 as a 100 ton mech is fricking amazing, but it is definitely rare to see someone in a 400 engine after decoupling, 375 or 350 is much more likely. It shocks me that people often don't take the speed tweaks at all, I feel like the KDK3 in particular NEEDS a near maxed mobility tree, but I have never had less than the 60% of speed tweak buff on my KDK5, currently it does 63.4 kph, and yeah, if you don't stop to peep snipe every 250m, you can move with the bulk of your team easily... I mean unless they are literally non stop top speed nascarring right from drop.
That speed though is such a strong advantage on a massive weapons platform style mech like the KDK, I think people underestimate it a bit, until of course 2 kdks, 2 madIICs and 4 ebon jags come flying around a corner on top of their position.

"No, anything slower than 75kph is garbage and should be removed from the game" is something I hear a lot of the time. A lot of people underestimate what the slow weapon-platforms bring to the table.

[Grus]

Athom83, on 08 August 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

"No, anything slower than 75kph is garbage and should be removed from the game" is something I hear a lot of the time. A lot of people underestimate what the slow weapon-platforms bring to the table.

I could see that argument over a few mech's, but yes in general you need speed to shift or go from cover to cover. Faster the better.

[Athom83]

BlueStrat, on 08 August 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

I'm living proof PSR/Tier# goes **down** as well as up!
I swear for a while there I was jumping between T3 & 4 almost every other solo-PUG match! Made it as high as about two/three letters-width into T3.
Been stuck in T4 for a few months, but lately I seem to be doing better and am currently about 2 letters-width from crashing T3 once again, from being as low as more than halfway-down T4 this latest & longest down-swing.

I was stuck in T4 until I started running my Cyclops. Now I'm hoping between T2 and T3 from testing out other mechs and playing around with builds (Bansheestar is quite fun to take out on occation. Especially mixing PPC types to actually have an all-round build with only PPCs). But with my Cyclops, it is very easy to do well where I'm at.

Edited by Athom83, 08 August 2017 - 06:23 PM.

[Zergling]

RussianWolf, on 08 August 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

That was how the MM worked when we used ELO. With PSR they simplified it. The MM starts with a set tier, say T3. It then pulls in as many T3s as possible. If it can't fill out the full 24 then it spreads the net to T2 and T4..... if all is lost, then it spreads to T1 and T5. Originally, T1 could ONLY be matched with T1-3s and T5s could only be matched with T3-5s. Now I do understand that because of long queue times they relaxed the MM to go to a 4 tier spread, but they have always maintained that T1s and T5s would never meet in Solo queue.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Again, this is with the understanding that PSR is inherently flawed and not all T1s are "good" players, but that's not to do with the MM.

So again, being a T1 and randomizing the MM, your odds of being matched with T5s increases dramatically and that isn't what you want (or is it). If anything you should be clamoring for them to fix the broken PSR system to actually have meaning.

I haven't seen any evidence that the matchmaker works as you describe.

Given the way my W/L crashed when I went from Tier 2 to Tier 1, it seems there is a strong PSR Tier averaging effect going on. Other players have reported the same effect; personal performance doesn't change much, but W/L drops drastically.