279 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

Judah Malganis, on 09 August 2017 - 05:29 AM, said:

People keep talking about how LRMs are dead. I played a LRM boat for the Mad Cat II event and did extremely well with it, even in light of thr current massive AMS and I also had never LRMd before. I stayed close to the front lines, just behind the brawlers and supported them by hitting targets they were brawling with instead of staying back at max range and hoping my targets wouldn't find cover. LRMs aren't dead; bad players kill them, but the same can be said for scouts/snipers/brawlers/whatever.

OK, let's do this: try to shoot gauss, or ppc, or even laser with ONE FOOT, and do a video about.

ONLY THEN, you can say "lrm are good too and require skills", ok?

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 09 August 2017 - 07:56 AM.

[Mole]

Ruar, on 09 August 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

Those same people would do even less damage with other weapons though.

I guess. I'm not defending LRMs though. I don't even own a 'mech that has nothing but LRMs. I had a few clan 'mechs that had some LRMs as a closing weapon but they've been replaced by ATMs except for my Hellbringer which uses two LRM10s alongside its 6 ERMLs. I have a MAuler that has 2 LRM10s used in the same manner in addition to its 2 RAC/5s and 6 MLs just because I felt like the huge missile pod shoulders were an iconic look for that 'mech. Fiddled with replacing the LRMs on my Mauler with MRMs but it just didn't work out. I have a Kintaro that chains LRM5s but has two ERLLs for direct fire, and an Archer that has two LRM15s for indirect fire, 4 SRM4s for brawls, and 3 RL10s because I had extra missile hardpoints. LRMs can make a decent sidekick weapon but I cringe when I see someone who is loaded up with nothing for direct fire but a couple of puny medium lasers or worse, nothing at all but LRMs and thousands of missiles.

[STEF_]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

I would be impressed by 750 dmg with lasers, even if played with hands, though 2 kmdd is a little meh for that kind of pinpoint damage.

Sorry, what is your definition of "pinpoint dmg"?

[davoodoo]

Stefka Kerensky, on 09 August 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

Sorry, what is your definition of "pinpoint dmg"?

damage lands exactly where your crosshair is.

lasers and burst fire acs are pinpoint.
lbxes, is lrm and srms are frontloaded.
ppc, slug acs and gausses are pinpoint frontloaded.
clrm, mrm, racs and atms are neither.

Edited by davoodoo, 09 August 2017 - 08:00 AM.

[STEF_]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

damage lands exactly where your crosshair is.

why are u using "pinpoint dmg" for lrm?

[davoodoo]

Stefka Kerensky, on 09 August 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

why are u using "pinpoint dmg" for lrm?

im not.

[Templar Dane]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

Ok lets, assume that this is fantastic, he with 0 effort did amazing job.

Would you like such ppl in your team?? cause so far lurm boats doing 700 dmg are considered lowest of low...

If his 750 damage with his foot is a bad performance for an LRM mech........

Please show me your 3000+ damage matches in FP with an LRM dropdeck.

[Luminis]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

Would you like such ppl in your team?? cause so far lurm boats doing 700 dmg are considered lowest of low...

Well, let's put it this way.

Let's say Player X is as bad playing with his hands as Player Y is while playing with his foot.

In that case, I'd certainly prefer Player X to play LRMs because that way, he might at least contribute something to the team's efforts. Of course, I'd prefer having a more capable player altogether, but if I have to have someone who's foot-aiming-levels of bad, he's probably best suited to use the weapon that demands the least of him to contribute something.

Nobody's gonna win the Tour de France on a tricycle but going slow and steady on a tricycle still beats constantly falling over on an adult bike.

[davoodoo]

Templar Dane, on 09 August 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

If his 750 damage with his foot is a bad performance for an LRM mech........

Please show me your 3000+ damage matches in FP with an LRM dropdeck.

hyperbole much??

0-700 delete this game
700-1000 ******* potato.
1000-1200 ok, ill you off this time.
1200-1500 you were lucky
1500-1800 nerf lrms.

most common reactions.

Luminis, on 09 August 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

Let's say Player X is as bad playing with his hands as Player Y is while playing with his foot.

Apparently its so easy that you just need to point and click, thus you can do it with feet, would using hands improve performance dramatically??
if you answer no, then you just defeated your own argument
if you answer yes, then theres skill involved and whole discussion is moot.

Edited by davoodoo, 09 August 2017 - 08:10 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Even beyond the difficulty inherent in good accuracy as a skill, good positioning for direct fire to do more damage than you receive is more complex and takes better situational awareness than figuring out where to stand so that your LRMs don't hit a wall.

Doing well with a bad weapon doesn't take more skill - just luck, in that you don't meet someone with equal or better skill using a good weapon.

The great truism of MWO -

Bads gonna bad.

[Burke IV]

Is tag a low skill weapon?

[Luminis]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

find me one person who will be "ok maybe hes playing with his foot" during a match.

I wasn't insinuating that Player X is actually playing with his foot, just that he's very, very bad (as bad as a better player playing with his foot). However, playing with their feet would be an explanation for the people that die with < 100 damage on meta Assaults, yes

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

Also apparently its so easy that you just need to point and click, thus you can do it with feet, would using hands improve performance dramatically??

if you answer no, then you just defeated your own argument
if you answer yes, then theres skill involved and whole discussion is moot.

Of course there'd be a difference. That's not the point. The point is that the skill floor for LRMs is so low that they're the only weapon you could do remotely well with while using your foot to pilot your 'Mech.

Besides, to me this sounds like you completely failed to understand the point I was making.

Edited by Luminis, 09 August 2017 - 08:18 AM.

[davoodoo]

Luminis, on 09 August 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

Of course there'd be a difference. That's not the point. The point is that the skill floor for LRMs is so low that they're the only weapon you could do remotely well with while using your foot to pilot your 'Mech.

Besides, to me this sounds like you completely failed to understand the point I was making.

That is the entire point...
considering weapons "skillness" just by floor while ignoring ceiling is beyond foolish...

also if he can improve just by using hands then indeed that proves the point that this performance is poor.

Edited by davoodoo, 09 August 2017 - 08:21 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Wait the point of this thread wasn't how sexy Juju's foot is???

Tarantino would be disappointed guys.

[C4NC3R]

Wil McCullough, on 09 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

my foot.

or rather, juju's foot.

literally.

We actually see only mice, show us the keyboaed than... just to prove that mek was driven by the foot.



...if not, GTFO this is FAKE

[Luminis]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

That is the entire point...
considering weapons "skillness" just by floor while ignoring ceiling is beyond foolish...

Both the skill floor and ceiling are the lowest among the available weapons in MWO, whether you can reach the skill ceiling with your foot or not. The point is not and was not that the skill ceiling and skill floor are exactly equal for LRMs.

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

also if he can improve just by using hands then indeed that proves the point that this performance is poor.

Record yourself doing better, then. And while you're at it, why don't you play some direct fire weapons with your feet as well, just for the lulz. I'd definitely like to see someone do some poptarting with his feet.

Put up or shut up. What's it gonna be?

C4NC3R, on 09 August 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

We actually see only mice, show us the keyboaed than... just to prove that mek was driven by the foot.

The video's title literally says "aim" with the foot. Do you aim with your keyboard?

Edited by Luminis, 09 August 2017 - 08:26 AM.

[Roadbuster]

Templar Dane, on 09 August 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

Wait so you're saying positioning, minimap awareness etc doesn't come into play with other weapons?

Where do I say that? It's like you say you can't equip ACs and lasers at the same time.

Templar Dane, on 09 August 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

While with LRMs you can sit in the back lobbing missiles with an aim so easy you can use your foot, at 100% armor the entire match until all your other teammates are dead.

If you call that efficient...ok.
I always hope these guys die fast, because if they stay alive till the end of the match and see "big damaaaaage" numbers behind their names, they might think they are doing great.

Wil McCullough, on 09 August 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

is this a round-about way of saying juju is skilful with lurms using his foot? lol

or is this a round-about way of saying you can do better than him using your foot and acs? cos i'd love to see a video of that.

Ummm, neither?

You said:

Wil McCullough, on 09 August 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

the only thing im bashing are the guys who somehow keep insisting using lurms effectively requires better skill than other weapons.

You say that LRMs require less skill to be effective than other weapons.
Because someone moves his mouse with the foot?


Sorry, but LRMs are not effective...no matter which body part you use to fire them.
And pressing a button requires the same skill, no matter which weapon you fire.

I'm not saying using LRMs is hard. But for them to be effective, a lot of stars have to allign.
Try playing 10 matches with your foot and only LRMs and see what happens.

[C4NC3R]

Luminis, on 09 August 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

The video's title literally says "aim" with the foot. Do you aim with your keyboard?

I can aim with a stearing gear. So there'll be any proofs that mek was driven only by foot?

Edited by C4NC3R, 09 August 2017 - 08:32 AM.

[JediPanther]

lrms do take some skill to use. I've been using them since beta. With rule of 3 mech to master gone mechs with ecm get fielded a lot moreyou must have a good spotter, a heavy investment in counter ecm tech and a lot of points into sensors because being a lrm-er now sucks. Except for polar highlands (the lrm friendly map of the game) any lrm heavy team will get steam rolled by a laser and ac heavy team. The sniper friendly frozen city favors sniper and long range acs so those people have their map.

In order to use lrms on the is side you need a bare minimal investment of:
1.5 tons for bap
1 ton for tag laser
3 tons for command console for the lock on time reduction or
1-7 tons for targeting computers
2-10 ton for weight of the launchers minus artemis if your potato cheap
5-6 tons for lrm ammo which isn't going to last if you want to spam it all match long or use 15-20 lrm
.5 to 1 ton for case if you want std engine to keep that ammo from exploding with st loss.

That is 20 tons of equipment to get past ecm's mere 1.5 tons. Good luck using an old build and mech such as CPLT-C1 Max lrm.
On polar lrmlands you might have some luck with it. The rest not so much.

[davoodoo]

Luminis, on 09 August 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

Both the skill floor and ceiling are the lowest among the available weapons in MWO, whether you can reach the skill ceiling with your foot or not. The point is not and was not that the skill ceiling and skill floor are exactly equal for LRMs.


Record yourself doing better, then. And while you're at it, why don't you play some direct fire weapons with your feet as well, just for the lulz. I'd definitely like to see someone do some poptarting with his feet.

Put up or shut up. What's it gonna be?

You accuse me of missing the point...

Skill ceiling for all weapons is similiar as aiming itself on big slow mechs is very easy. The actual place where you can improve is positioning, map awareness and exposure time which you need to learn no matter what weapon you use.

Now what exactly would playing with feet prove?? another comparison of floor??

Edited by davoodoo, 09 August 2017 - 08:53 AM.