77 replies to this topic

[Josh Seles]

I think the Thanatos will turn into the IS version of the Hellbringer. A heavy with decent firepower and ECM. Given how valuable the Hellbringer is in Clan CW dropdecks, I think the same thing will happen here, just without the benefit of super-high mounts to go with the high cockpit and with jump jets.

The wide side torsos are probably going to be similar to the Awesome, easy to hit and not spreading damage will be rather punishing. However the ECM and the jump jets will help avoid some incoming fire. Slap on 1 or 2 Gauss Rifles with ECM or poptart some PPC's or big AC's. Yes, short range poptarting. Stand-up brawling is probably going to be where the Thanatos falls down a bit, with the big sides.

That said, Given the choice between a Thanatos or a Marauder, I'd still choose a Marauder. The Marauder's high mounts and face-tanking ability just can't be overlooked. Between the Marauder and the Thanatos, this is a side-grade, not an upgrade. Just like the Hellbringer and the Ebon Jaguar: side-grades, not upgrades.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 August 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

Then why do I kill more, die less, win more, and do more damage with the other option?

You aren't as used to running dual Gauss with lasers? Or maybe the extra lasers are just better for PUG farming, idk, I just know the dual Gauss build is what you will see top teams running. I mean it reminds me of the old debate between the 5 ERML/Gauss or 2 LPL/5 ERML Timby. The 5 ERML/Gauss Timby was the better build but because some pilots had trouble using the Gauss, you still saw the pure laser vomit version, though there you saw a starker difference between alphas (50 vs 61 for Timbies, 63 vs 67 for Night Gyrs).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 August 2017 - 12:28 PM.

[Lord0fHats]

I think the issue with comparing the Thanatos to the Hellbringer is that it can't carry nearly as many weapons. Really the most direct comparison I think is the Summoner. Both mechs have big blocky torso and well be best used for poptarting and not much else. look on the bright side though. The Thanatos might be better than the Summoner

I really liked the Thanny in MW4: Mercs and it was probably tied with the Timber as my favorite Heavy but I find what is offered in MWO very uninspiring. I might get one or two after the CBill release, but I'm just not interested enough in it to spend any real money.

[CK16]

Lord0fHats, on 09 August 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

I think the issue with comparing the Thanatos to the Hellbringer is that it can't carry nearly as many weapons. Really the most direct comparison I think is the Summoner. Both mechs have big blocky torso and well be best used for poptarting and not much else. look on the bright side though. The Thanatos might be better than the Summoner

I really liked the Thanny in MW4: Mercs and it was probably tied with the Timber as my favorite Heavy but I find what is offered in MWO very uninspiring. I might get one or two after the CBill release, but I'm just not interested enough in it to spend any real money.

Funny you say that.....

"After producing OmniMechs licensed from the Draconis Combine for several years, StarCorps Industries gained an understanding of OmniMech technology and began designing one of their own. When they finished development of the Thanatos as an OmniMech neither the LAAF or the AFFS was interested in obtaining any new OmniMech designs. The Thanatos was then converted into a standard BattleMech and resubmitted to the two militaries who gladly added it to their arsenals. The Thanatos is intended to emulate the Thor OmniMech used by the Clans. To do this the Thanatos is built on a StarFrame Heavy Endo Steel to save weight and carries a PlasmaStar 375 XL engine that gives the 'Mech a top speed of 86.4 km/h and also has five Audi-Fokker Mark IV jump jets that allow it to jump up to one hundred and fifty meters adding to its mobility. The Thanatos has sixteen double heat sinks to dissipate waste heat from the weapons and it carries thirteen tons of Durallex Heavy armor; compared to other 'Mechs of similar weight however, its protection is relatively light. The 'Mech carries a Guardian ECM Suite to protect itself from electronic warfare systems."

Edited by CK16, 09 August 2017 - 12:29 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lord0fHats, on 09 August 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

The Thanatos might be better than the Summoner

It won't because the Summoner is actually one of the best heavies in the game currently. If you want a long-extreme range heavy, the Summoner is probably your best bet.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 August 2017 - 12:29 PM.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 August 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

It won't because the Summoner is actually one of the best heavies in the game currently. If you want a long-extreme range heavy, the Summoner is probably your best bet.

Oh how times change....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 09 August 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

Oh how times change....

I mean, with the torso energy mounts, that has been the case for a long time, they only just now became available and the dual ppc/dual gauss Night Gyr got nerfed for it to finally be bothered with. It has always been the better poptart with the torso mounts due to exposure, it just required time to do as much damage which gives it less ability to actually control an area (since it can't exert as much initial pressure against a push). Even before that though it was one of the best heavies to push with if you could hide your legs because of how tanky that torso is.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 August 2017 - 12:35 PM.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 August 2017 - 12:35 PM, said:

I mean, with the torso energy mounts, that has been the case for a long time, they only just now became available and the dual ppc/dual gauss Night Gyr got nerfed for it to finally be bothered with. It has always been the better poptart with the torso mounts due to exposure, it just required time to do as much damage which gives it less ability to actually control an area (since it can't exert as much initial pressure against a push). Even before that though it was one of the best heavies to push with if you could hide your legs because of how tanky that torso is.

Oh I'm aware, I just remember back when it was the worst clan heavy....

[Lord0fHats]

It's almost like the similarities between the Summoner and the Thanatos aren't coincidence

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 August 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

It won't because the Summoner is actually one of the best heavies in the game currently. If you want a long-extreme range heavy, the Summoner is probably your best bet.

Oh I love me Summoners

I just really wish I had a few more tons of pod space. Oh endo and ferro why hath thou forsaken it. My PPC build works just fine, but for my Gauss and laser vomit builds a few more DHS would be nice. Honest I think people are knee jerking the Thanatos' torsos. Broad mechs tend to be good twisters, and depending on how the final product turns out the Thanatos might be fairly tanky, or very squishy. Really just another reason for me to wait for the CBill release

Edited by Lord0fHats, 09 August 2017 - 12:49 PM.

[Humpday]

I'm not even so sure that it's going to be very competitive.

I mean off the cuff, to mount anything substantial, drop the JJ's and ECM....then what?

4S: 2LPL, 3med, 2 srms?
4P: dual uac5(why?), or a single uac10 with meds
5P: giant SHD-2D2?
5S: Dual ac20s; Dual uac10, or some mix of a UAC, energy and srm/mrm
5T: This one could be a lot of fun mixing srms/mrm, or boating + ecm
HA: erMeds + mrm power fist?

The HP's dont' look bad, all mid mount relative to the cockpit, so it'll play like a warhammer with all Torso based weapons.

Overall no...in fact it didn't even raise my interest at all.

Outside if that, look at its geometry, forget about XLs in that thing, If they design it right though, that CT is sunk in between those shoulder pads of torso's, such that you can splash the damage a bit....but man, you blow a torso and you're pretty much useless anyway, might as well be dead.

It'll probably live or die with its quirks...but for me, no $$ goes out for this one....or any mech for a long while.
Everything is starting to feel the same to me.

Edited by Humpday, 09 August 2017 - 12:55 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 August 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

You aren't as used to running dual Gauss with lasers? Or maybe the extra lasers are just better for PUG farming, idk, I just know the dual Gauss build is what you will see top teams running. I mean it reminds me of the old debate between the 5 ERML/Gauss or 2 LPL/5 ERML Timby. The 5 ERML/Gauss Timby was the better build but because some pilots had trouble using the Gauss, you still saw the pure laser vomit version, though there you saw a starker difference between alphas (50 vs 61 for Timbies, 63 vs 67 for Night Gyrs).

Maybe, but I dont have any issues with the Deathstrike or the Dire. I'll give the HLL 3 ERML build a try, its been on my list maybe its better than the LPL version. Still, I tend to agree that the Night Gyr will probably better over all, but the Nova Cat does bring some other things to try.

I do hope the Timber gets some of its agility back, I loved running Gauss vomit on that almost as much as Gauss PPC.

[MischiefSC]

The amazing Blazing Summoner Lightning Nipple Peep Show. Back in my day you had to shell out hero mech money to get a private booth for that.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Honestly, after looking at the variants, I would prefer this be done for the hardpoints:

• 4S: Simply needs more inflation, at least an extra energy hardpoint to each side
  
• 4P: Fine for the most part, wouldn't hurt to add an extra missile hardpoint though.
  
• 5P: Nothing about this mech is interesting and it feels like they are trying to pull a High Roller here with turning a typical missile arm into a 3E arm. What would be cool is switching the hardpoints around to give a nod to the MW4 use (3 Lt Gauss). Missiles should be ballistics, ballistics should be energy, and energy should be missiles. Essentially it becomes like a heavier jump capable Ilya.
  
• 5S: While neat because it is the heaviest heavy that can do torso ballistics, I feel like this would be better suited as a nod to the Thanny-XT from the Mektek mods. It is unique because it is a purely ballistic/energy 75 tonner that doesn't stack all the ballistics in the same section like the Marauder. It is different from mech above because it would have more energy options rather than a sole energy hardpoint.
  
• 5T: Fine as is, though I would prefer the hardpoint counts for arms and torso be swapped in the end it is still fairly unique.
  
• HA: Fine as is.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 August 2017 - 02:49 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 August 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

You aren't as used to running dual Gauss with lasers? Or maybe the extra lasers are just better for PUG farming, idk, I just know the dual Gauss build is what you will see top teams running. I mean it reminds me of the old debate between the 5 ERML/Gauss or 2 LPL/5 ERML Timby. The 5 ERML/Gauss Timby was the better build but because some pilots had trouble using the Gauss, you still saw the pure laser vomit version, though there you saw a starker difference between alphas (50 vs 61 for Timbies, 63 vs 67 for Night Gyrs).

Your forgetting and/or assuming alot of things.

First, some people naturally will do better with certain weapons and configurations. I have seen people do amazing things with what I would consider the worst possible build because they could leverage the advantages of that build in a way no one else really could. So you have to consider the individual and their preferences when your talking best build.

Second, a competitive match composed of mechs with very specific builds designed to work together in a very specific way and all melded together with extensive and absolute coordination is a very different environment than a PUG or even a FW drop. Best is relative to what your trying to accomplish with it and while the Gauss build might be best in that competitive environment, that doesn't mean it is going to be best in the PUG que or a FW drop.

For Example, I tend to not play FW much and when we had the last event, I quickly found that many of the builds I had which performed exceptionally well in a standard 12 vs 12 PUG environment, sucked badly in FW due to fact that I generally found combat to be more sustained and quick paced in FW. Basically I found myself often overheating badly because there just wasn't enough time in a typical FW wave rush to cooldown adequately. I basically had to rebuild mechs to be good in FW but upon returning to QP, found those same builds weren't necessarily the best build for PUGs so had to revert back.

Point is there isn't a best build, at least not for all people and for all situations.

[DaZur]

End of the day... It's just another weapons platform.

The true interest in this mech and virtually every other mech moving forward will be based in lore and nostalgia.

Anyone who bases their entire approval or disapproval of mechs over how many top-tier meta checkboxes it fills in are missing the boat in regards to the nuance and appeal of the IP and battlemechs in specific and are primary contributors to the insanity that surrounds every new mech offering needing to one-up the meta-madness in order to be relevant.

[Lucifaust]

PurplePuke, on 09 August 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Maybe I think about the game differently than others do.

• ECM buys you a little time, can help you get some unanswered shots off.
  
• Jets can get you a couple unanswered shots per game, and maybe an escape from an enemy in hot pursuit.
  
• Mobility buys you an unexpected shot here and there in a game, and also helps you escape.

Thanatos could be a good mech for punctuating your team's firing line.

I guess we'll see, but those condemning it are a little too eager to condemn, I think.

I agree, all those things come together to give this mech an edge.

Like that other guy said, it's a cavalry mech. Flanker. I expect to find the thanatos everywhere and anywhere in a map, and packing enough heat to cause a panic from behind. I wish clan had more of these types.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Viktor Drake, on 09 August 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

First, some people naturally will do better with certain weapons and configurations.

Sure, but given two people who are equal in their "natural aptitude" towards a certain style/config, there is still a best of the two which is the point. People that don't fit that style will get swapped out for people who can on top teams if a certain style/config is deemed better. That's just how it works.

Viktor Drake, on 09 August 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Second, a competitive match composed of mechs with very specific builds designed to work together in a very specific way and all melded together with extensive and absolute coordination is a very different environment than a PUG or even a FW drop.

You act like a majority of comp builds are built to work specifically with other mechs and they really aren't. Now sure range plays into the effectiveness of that build a bit but still using PUG queue to determine overall effectiveness when you can't use cohesion to your advantage makes it not so good for balance discussions.

Viktor Drake, on 09 August 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Point is there isn't a best build, at least not for all people and for all situations.

Sure, but that isn't the point of a balance discussion now is it?