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Roadmap For September, October, And Beyond


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#141 SuperFunkTron

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 11:16 AM

View PostW E N D I G O, on 29 August 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:


They also announced IK is ready to be re-implemented ages ago, that all problems were fixed by their new hired network engineer guy. Now it's canceled for good. Actually they do talk much when the day is long. But what later happens is a whole different story.

I'd take a bet that "early new year" term will eventually turn out to be "maybe next year" or "at some point" or even "if we not loose against Harmony Gold"...


The IK thing is definitely frustrating, but given their reasons for canceling, it seems like not following through with IK in order to maintain visual and data parity and keep hit reg working in accordance with what we see, I can hardly hold that against them. Unless you are hellbent on IK at the cost of game experience, I don't understand what your issue is here.

In terms of delivery dates, reality may interfere and force delays so that quality can be assured. Yeah, it sucks when things are pushed back, but better to delay than force a broken feature in game and cause more trouble.

#142 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:45 PM

View PostSuperFunkTron, on 29 August 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:


The IK thing is definitely frustrating, but given their reasons for canceling, it seems like not following through with IK in order to maintain visual and data parity and keep hit reg working in accordance with what we see, I can hardly hold that against them. Unless you are hellbent on IK at the cost of game experience, I don't understand what your issue is here.

In terms of delivery dates, reality may interfere and force delays so that quality can be assured. Yeah, it sucks when things are pushed back, but better to delay than force a broken feature in game and cause more trouble.


Honestly, I've been scratching my head over the passion people have for IK. Yes, it makes the game look better, but it offers no functional benefits beyond that. If it complicates the hit detection, when that isn't a perfect system as it is... not worth a visual gain for a hit to the reliability of damage registration. Not by far.

#143 Mechwarrior4670152

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:20 PM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 29 August 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:


Honestly, I've been scratching my head over the passion people have for IK. Yes, it makes the game look better, but it offers no functional benefits beyond that. If it complicates the hit detection, when that isn't a perfect system as it is... not worth a visual gain for a hit to the reliability of damage registration. Not by far.

Because it lets them bash PGI.
It is "yet one more thing" that supposedly proves how incompetent PGI is.
(and ignores the fact that true incompetence would be to put it in anyways)

#144 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:22 PM

View PostWence the Wanderer, on 29 August 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

(and ignores the fact that true incompetence would be to put it in anyways)



Fixed that for you.

#145 FLG 01

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 02:32 PM

Hm, what about new weapons's models on "old" Mechs? Will we have to live with placeholders forever, or will we see the proper models one day?

#146 NocturnalBeast

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 03:59 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 29 August 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

Hm, what about new weapons's models on "old" Mechs? Will we have to live with placeholders forever, or will we see the proper models one day?


PGI said in the patch notes that they would be doing "retrofits" for a few Mechs at a time with each patch until they are all updated. Also, I am quite sure that any Mechs that are not released yet will have the new weapon models (I know the Uziels I just bought do).

#147 FLG 01

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 04:51 PM

Yep, it was mentioned in the patch notes, that's precisely why I am worried we don't hear from it anymore. ;)
Guess the next patch notes will provide more details.

#148 SuperFunkTron

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 04:59 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 29 August 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

Yep, it was mentioned in the patch notes, that's precisely why I am worried we don't hear from it anymore. Posted Image
Guess the next patch notes will provide more details.

They gave us about 9 mechs worth of refits in the last patch alone. Just because you haven't heard anything since 2 weeks ago doesn't give us any reason to believe that they aren't going to address it a few mechs each patch. It's in their roadmap or patch notes, Russ said they were working on it... Are you just inciting doubt out of boredom or a need for attention?

This kind of constant misinformation creates a lot of frustrations once they make it to the rumor mill and create grossly unnecessary amounts of complaining about things that are already on the chopping block to deal with. How about you detail something that is not being adequately addressed instead of fear mongering

Edited by SuperFunkTron, 30 August 2017 - 06:35 AM.


#149 FLG 01

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 05:25 PM

View PostSuperFunkTron, on 29 August 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

It's in their roadmap

Must have missed that. Where exactly in this roadmap? Asking those questions is neither complaint nor inciting doubt (unless you're really insecure and every question makes you doubt), it is merely about information. Clearing something up is the opposite of misinformation.
I don't know why you feel the need to question my motives or my psyche, and franky I don't care. It tells more about you than about me, as both my activity in game and the money I spend speak for themselves.

#150 Cpt Contego

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 05:39 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 29 August 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

Must have missed that. Where exactly in this roadmap? Asking those questions is neither complaint nor inciting doubt (unless you're really insecure and every question makes you doubt), it is merely about information. Clearing something up is the opposite of misinformation.
I don't know why you feel the need to question my motives or my psyche, and franky I don't care. It tells more about you than about me, as both my activity in game and the money I spend speak for themselves.

It was in their July & August patch notes, (this taken from the August notes: "[color=#EEEEEE]As outlined in our July Patch Notes, 'Mechs will undergo gradual retrofit passes to support the visual display of new weaponry. These visual retrofits are being done in stages."[/color]).

#151 FLG 01

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 05:52 PM

Yes, and I would like to know about the current status of those retrofits, what's the next stage, etc. Call me naive, but a roadmap seems like it would be a good place to share this information - or, as I did, ask for it.
So we have to wait and see, apparently. Fine with me, I just hoped to get to know something in advance (in a roadmap thread, no less!).

Edited by FLG 01, 29 August 2017 - 06:21 PM.


#152 Cpt Contego

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 08:03 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 29 August 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

Yes, and I would like to know about the current status of those retrofits, what's the next stage, etc. Call me naive, but a roadmap seems like it would be a good place to share this information - or, as I did, ask for it.
So we have to wait and see, apparently. Fine with me, I just hoped to get to know something in advance (in a roadmap thread, no less!).

Yeah I would have assumed/expected that they at least would have listed the ones due out in each consecutive month, (Or at least which ones they are hoping to have completed each month), possibly an oversight on their behalf maybe? I'm guessing we won't see anything until the next patch notes.

I don't remember reading anything about it but was there anything about new colors for the Heavy Lasers?

(Edit: Grammar and Spelling)

Edited by El Contego, 29 August 2017 - 08:04 PM.


#153 SuperFunkTron

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 07:35 AM

View PostW E N D I G O, on 29 August 2017 - 11:34 PM, said:


The thing is that anyone with a little bit less of good will (or less of naive approach) some people apparently have, the whole situation could be interpreted as stalling or whitewashing. Not only in regard to IK, since people already claim they could not understand what would be so important about it (hello white knights! months ago I've read your posts applauding that and talking about how great it is PGI brings back that beta thing finally and stuff like: what now you evil crying naysayers etc etc etc), but also in regards to new maps. In lack of anything else we could expect anyway, there is not much more to name, is there? Oh I forgot huge Solaris - which had talk already last year I take bets it will be just the one map at start, the one that is already done for a year, along with some new cashgrab for PGI. That whole geometry thing idea even two or more years ago, actually nearly as old as the Clan Invasion itself. And don't forget the completely reinvented CW with the introduction of Civil War.

Excuse me, I have to lmao. But don't take that as a reason to think it over again. PGI needs some buddies now to hug and that cheer for them, and that's where you come in. Also providing money so the lawsuit can be dealt with, and to keep the servers with abysmal tickrate online so they can get their hands on your hard earned cash while doing only so much (or just as much as necessary) to keep the interest of as many as necessary to have some black numbers of profit. That's what I call passion for Battletech. Or exploitation of exactly that.


IK being canceled is a huge let down, but what sense is there to be upset about it when it will functionally ruin the game? I've been hoping they could/would fix it since they first renewed the topic, was let down briefly when they announced it, but found solace very quickly in their logically sound reasoning for abandoning it. No shame in making a call like that, even if they only found the issue after investing time in it.

"Stalling" or "whitewashing" are really over the top terms to throw around and it's hard to sympathize with those sentiments when you consider the things we have received this year; don't worry, I won't list them here, there's a year's worth of patch notes available for that. I am by no means white knighting for PGI as I am extremely frustrated with the lacking development and scant amount of information regarding Faction Play. I have been waiting very impatiently for new features to be added to enhance both the immersion and depth of the mode. I've made many posts about the need to incentivize Faction Specific Mechs, add a dynamic political/alliance system, a Logistical Strain system, mini campaigns with rewards/consequences, etc. and have yet to hear more than a passing acknowledgement on the idea of Faction Specific Mechs.

The difference in people's perceptions of what is happening is rooted in the amount of logic and fact they are using in their approach to PGI's work. A lot has been done so far in this year, not necessarily things you and I care about or prioritize, but there have been those added features/improvements/bug fixes and that is a fact. Getting angry at them for not having done anything this year is illogical and negates reality. On the other side of this, being frustrated about poor communication or certain issues makes much more sense as it addresses what has yet to be done. Unexplained set backs, lack of response to questions, persistent issues... these are frustrating and require the community to push for an answer and remind PGI what the community believes are priority issues. Working in the realm of reality really helps keep a clear line of what has and has not been accomplished, why certain things are yet to be accomplished, and help keep the community on track in their requests for the next items/issues to be addressed. There are many people who are waiting for FP to get more features added, but there are many saying to kill the mode because they don't like certain aspects of FP or that it's too late to fix it. The 2nd group doesn't help the first get these long advertised issues dealt with, but neither does the lack of questioning of potential features for FP during town halls or any other meeting.

This game is surviving because it has enough people interested in it. It needs improvement and revitalizing, but as much as people complain, spreading misinformation and is toxic and destructive more for the community than it is for PGI. The game is still afloat because enough people enjoy it despite the shortcomings. Use facts as a tool to leverage for better issues to be addressed, not as something to attack because you are frustrated that your issues are not their top priority.

#154 MovinTarget

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 09:22 AM

The real solution for some of this is for them to put it up on the PTS and say "Look, we put the leg work in and tried implementing <Insert concept here> and you can see it didn't work the way it was expected."

Writing code can be both flexible and inflexible. Most modern code relies on APIs; "black boxes" if you will, that give them functionality w/o have to spend extra man hours/days/years reinventing the wheel. The problem is that once you hitch your wagon to them, code around them, its next to impossible to swap them out for a different black box just because some feature is needed that wasn't on the original checklist. Some APIs are built with the flexibility to adapt a bit, if your needs just happen to fall in line with their design, but you can get fundamentally screwed with Cry, Unreal, or any other engine if suddenly you need to do something in a way no one else has done before in a way no one else has had to do.

Not trying to be an apologist, just a realist. I was not around for the closed beta so I dunno when IK was first discussed and it sounds like it was unlikely to have been on the "must have" list at the beginning.

#155 SuperFunkTron

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:44 AM

View PostW E N D I G O, on 30 August 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:


@MovinTarget IK was removed due to performance concerns (of player computers, not the servers). Already hilarious excuse back then. Jurassic Park trespasser is a game from 1998 which uses inverse kinematics on every single 3d model. With a Pentium cpu with 166Mhz as minimum requirement.

Anyone tell me please where the difference between a moving Mech (which moves his legs while walking) and a Mech standing on a non-flat surface (which does not move it's legs) but it's leg hitboxes are not symmetrical because it is using IK? Right. Everyone without the lately more common severe denial syndrome should notice there is actually none. Because it's just the hitbox itself which is tied to the 3D model, actually it is the same as the model itself and just an additional parameter of the model for hit registration.

So where is the problem? Maybe PGI's next online game will remove the movement ability from their Mechs since this would lead to unsolvable problems regarding hitreg. Because that's just the crap they sold to people and there are plenty who did eat up their plates and now even give applause for being fed this nonsense. Hilarious. And before anyone comes with the bulls "but this is done client side" - guess what where ALL OF THE INPUT TO THE CLIENT IS DONE. Right, client side. And then it's being sent to the server and then to all relevant connected to it. Especially with the planned 8vs8 there are 4 less moving, shooting, turning, existing Mechs in a game, it's easy as pie to deal with the leg position of the remaining eight mechs. This is a 3D game. To determine the position of a something in our dimension you need three coordinates plus time.

And, important, it's not just about IK, it's just the latest example of PGI doing the bait and switch, the stalling and whitewashing.


PS: Funfact, Overwatch has inverse kinematics, 12 players in match, working hitreg. Guess it's magic what Blizzard does. Or is PGI just incompetent? Oh wait, now I'm too "toxic and destructive"... ok. Blizzard just wanted REALLY to have it in the game. So they did implement it. And PGI does not want it, so they don't do it, despite having it announced earlier. Better? More funfacts, there are even more online pvp shooters which have inverse kinematics.

So this really just boils down to you being very upset about IK if I understand correctly. Yes, some other "bait and switch" items, whatever those are, but it sounds like IK is really yanking your chain.

#156 MovinTarget

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:19 PM

So all the examples you provided, Jurassic Park, Overwatch, etc. They are all built on the same platform as MWO?

Mind you, I am not saying the APIs used by MWO are *good*, b/c I know enough about programming to not make assumptions about APIs I am not familiar with.

But if Jurassic Park, Overwatch, et al were built with IK in mind from the get go, that sounds like they had different priorities that IGP/PGI at the beginning...

Again, that is not saying that PGI/IGP were right/wrong to not have this working from inception, only that if the plan was to make a German Chocolate Cake from the beginning was enacted, you reach a point of no return down the line where you can't change it to a Chocolate Lava Cake, no matter how much you fiddle with the currently mixed ingredients.

Sure, it seems like there could be a logical transition from the outside, but maybe there just isn't?

I have worked on a 20+ year old VB6 application for 13 years now (you have my permission to put me out of my misery). I can still get the application to do new and interesting things, but there are limitations based on time, flexibility in code, and compatibility with other technologies (VB6 hasn't had an update since the early 2000's) that prevent it from competing with more modern languages because the creators of the language failed to recognize what would be desirable in the future.

Because my predecessors wrote 1 million+ lines of code that I do not have time to rewrite.

*IF* that is comparable to what the *current* PGI devs are dealing with; inherited, inflexible code without the resources/time for large scale rewrite, then I don't blame them for the lack of IK, not sure its fair to blame anyone if it wasn't a priority from day 1...

#157 Ritter ohne Sport und Vollnuss

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 07:47 PM

hi pgi

PLS a Pirahana http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

mfg
Yours sincerely

#158 B0oN

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:12 PM

View PostDoktorbike, on 22 August 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

If your read all of the roadmap you will see that 4 new maps are there in total, 1 in November, 1 early 2018 & 2 for the new Solaris game mode in development which we will be able to see at mechcon.
Read it, understand it!! then shitpost. That's how it's done....


Not enough maps .
N O T E V E N C L O S E !
Understand my history(marching on to 6 years of playing this, as a SHORT pointer, leaving out all the interesting human connections stuff), then execute ad hominem .
That´s how it´s done ...

#159 Simulacrum

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:48 PM

Obviously you hired some new guys for improving events and ingame features. You're doing a nice job, go on (and give us more maps ;) ).

#160 Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 04:29 AM

About maps, PGI - maps do not have to be big. Smaller maps, but with more details and ways to go, like HPG or River City, are the best. Sure, Alpine is also great... IMHO! And same about old Therra Therma - we could went circle or push the center, then again - circle or to guard the entrances. In new Therma, every match looks same... That's what I call "badly development map". Things are really similar with Frozen City. The best maps are maps with few ways to go with same victory chances (old Therma, old Frozen City (tunnel was great, it's useless now), HPG (basement, top, walls, circle ("NASCAR") or flanking, three levels to fight), The Mining Collective (center is a bit open, but still - it's well developed map IMO) or maps that there isn't exist a good place to fight, like Grim Plexus, Alpine Peaks or Caustic Valley (sure, those maps have their special, "better-to-camp" places, but there is few such a places on each map, not only one, like Citadel in River City (despite there is also "Upper City", but a bit forgotten), so we can choose way to go safely at begin and battles are diffrent, not same every time, at multiple leves).

My dream is map map where "NASCAR" (both teams trying to flank each other) will be really hard to do, like old Therra Therma and HPG, without center point. Wait, old Therra... Damm, PGI, why you decited to "upgarde" this map in such a way (loosing strengths nad giving us just a more useless space to fight)...?

Edited by Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses, 31 August 2017 - 04:52 AM.






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