181 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Xmith, on 23 August 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

There is no facetime. It's more like circle of death. A good light pilot is not going to facetime MGs. Assaults have a difficult time when a light is performing the circle of death with MGs. It's even tough for the heavy pilot too. It's like, oh sh_t when ever I see a light with MGs heading my way. It's always gonna be trouble.

I usually see it as a free kill.

Honestly, a Light managing to get behind the team and get one assassination before anybody reacts is identical in impact to a high-alpha Assault or Medium 'Mech killing a Light or Medium in one go...from pretty much any angle. It's annoying and you can stomp your feet over it all you want, but it's fair and the potential for either outcome cancels the other out.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Xmith, on 23 August 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

There is no facetime. It's more like circle of death. A good light pilot is not going to facetime MGs. Assaults have a difficult time when a light is performing the circle of death with MGs. It's even tough for the heavy pilot too. It's like, oh sh_t when ever I see a light with MGs heading my way. It's always gonna be trouble.

"Difficult" in what sense? Backing against a wall? Doing anything other than trying to chase their movement with your traverse? Not ignoring them? Shielding open components?

[Lykaon]

tker 669, on 23 August 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

Mist lynx and arctic cheetahs are not in any way supposed to be the scariest mechs on the field. This is just getting stupid with people running up and instantly removing all of your weapons. Crit chance waaaay too high and beyond what is reasonable.

So there has been so much hype about the Myst Lynx so I figured I would see what it's all about.

I got myself an Ebon Dragon and set it up with 8 light MGs and 4 ER micro lasers and here is what I discovered.

One: the potential mayhem this 25 toner can inflict is substantial. This mech is one of the rare few light chassis and builds that I feel can have a substantial impact on the match.

Two: much of how I can be meaningful in a match is based upon the frequent over reactions of the enemy team when they see it. There is no reason to dispatch 3-5 mechs to take on a MystLynx no matter what it has loaded up. I have been deliberatley letting my mech be seen in the rear of the enemy line to draw fire from my team, I lead them on a merry chase while the weakened front lines get butchered by the rest of my team.

Sadly this probably won't last as players wise up to the tactic and also get a better feel for the actual threat the MystLynx projects and it doesn't merit chasing it down with a lance of mechs

Three: when I do exceptionally well it it because my team is performing well. The MystLynx is so fragile that it really only does really well when nobody is paying much attention to it. Overall my best matches using this mech would in all likelyhood been victories for my team anyhow.

Four: streaks bring the pain. The best counters I have faced have been clan light mechs with multiple streak launchers. Stormcrows I feel are overkill and a streak boat crow is overly focused on a specific task and may hurt overall team performance by being super lethal against light mechs but very ineffective against heavier targets.


So in closing the TLDR of it is

Over hyped but still dangerous mech that does best when supported by a team effort (will not be carrying a match for a team)

Delicate and easily damaged/destroyed firepower

Has a simple and highly effective counter (streak boat light mechs)

[poltergoost]

Lykaon, on 23 August 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

The MystLynx is so fragile that it really only does really well when nobody is paying much attention to it.

This, this, and more of this!

[Damnedtroll]

Just buyed the piece of scrap with 8 mg, the arm are so big that they are cutted clean in an instant, no kill yet but will work on it. But its fun to do the pellet cloud. if you put an ecm in it, it would be good ! Nut nope...

Edited by Damnedtroll, 23 August 2017 - 05:15 PM.

[Wildstreak]

I remember the days when FupDup, Deathlike, st Jobe, myself and others were discussing/arguing MG buffs.

Here we are.

Ah, memories.

[GrimRiver]

Only a threat when ignored.

Besides assaults shouldn't be running off alone anyway, if they would stay with their lance and the lance to stay with the main group then it wouldn't be an issue.

If you get singled out then it's you fault for bad situational awareness.

But too often the assault lance is left in the dust to fair on it's own which makes easy prey for the fast nimble light, so the assault pilots take their anger out on the least armored slow lights in the game.

It's also strange that very small group of people claim MG's is op and yet there is no video evidence of this claim.

It takes waaaaay too long to chew through armor with MG's which is why those builds use lasers, so it really isn't the MG's doing the work, it's the lasers.

Streaks, BAP and pulses are a thing.

Edited by GrimRiver, 23 August 2017 - 04:18 PM.

[Kroete]

Just half cermls range and remove their heat?
They are the same as mgs then (double the wheigt, but no ammo needed).

Anyone who claims that 5-10 heat free dps is balanced should look at the tables.

[Judah Malganis]

Quote

Just half cermls range and remove their heat?
They are the same as mgs then (double the wheigt, but no ammo needed).

Exactly. They have twice the range and unlimited ammo. The price of admission is heat.

Also, machines guns can't front load damage. An ER sml does its 5 dmg over 1.1 second, where a single machine gun does it in 5 seconds, allowing the lasers to hit and run whereas mgs have to stay on the enemy. That also is factors into the heat cost of the laser.

There are also quite a few light mechs capable of boating 4-6 small pulse lasers/srms who are far more deadly in the long run than mg boats due to their ability to hit and run, whereas an mg boat has to basically fully commit to you for 4-5+ seconds if they want to eat that opened section due to lack of mg burst dmg.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 23 August 2017 - 05:03 PM.

[Damnedtroll]

Probably the guy have a potato lrm boat with 10 tons of ammo in the side torso. Yes if you got a critical hit to the back your screw.

[Xmith]

Alexander of Macedon, on 23 August 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

"Difficult" in what sense? Backing against a wall? Doing anything other than trying to chase their movement with your traverse? Not ignoring them? Shielding open components?

I know about backing against a wall when available. I'm not complaining or whining about MGs. Just sharing my experiences when I do encounter them. Now if I can have a wall tied to my back and can drop it when I do run up against the killer MG light, I would mount it if I could.

[KursedVixen]

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

And somehow being beat up is supposed to mean "lights should be able to kill you with little no effort"?

I can have an open torso and go up against assault mechs because I know I can use some skill to help mitigate the damage to that area. I see a light with MGs and I know I'm losing that torso and probably about to die.

That just doesn't seem balanced.

Plenty of effort, maybe your just a bad mechwarrior

[poltergoost]

Well, I've been messing around this season with a 6xHML and a 2xHML/6xLMG Cheetah

The LMG Cheetah is way more chaotic fun, no question. I too get good results in matches the team would probably have won anyway, when as an earlier poster said, nobody pays much attention to you, and your team does the hard work of actually removing armor

But I've had much better carries and comebacks in the 6xHML version. Even won from 5-10 down in one skirmish.

Against 7 enemies working together, the 6xLMG version would have been slaughtered during the facetime it needs to do damage.

Whereas the 6xHML version, peekaboo, 60 pinpoint alpha from hiding then sprint away to cool down, is a *MUCH* better killer against slow enemies.

Got an open side torso in a slow heavy or assault? I'd bet on the 6xHML version to remove that torso faster than the 6xLMG version any day.

Edited by poltergoost, 23 August 2017 - 05:58 PM.

[Unendingmenace]

tker 669, on 23 August 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

Nerf Machine Guns Now

No. I disagree.

Lights need all the help they can get. if you're caught out of position and get flanked by a light then I suggest you practice more situational awareness.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Might as well nerf SRM2s while you're at it

[Methanoid]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 August 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

I don't really think this is a Clans vs. IS thing. I mean, there are no fast IS 'Mechs that can boat 6-8x, but they'd be about the same if there were. Slight advantage to the Clan build for half weight MGs.

The really scary MG boat is yet to come (Piranha). No IS Light could ever replicate that.

if IS did have something like that i would imagine there would be an instant uproar by many, an IS ECM/Stealth mech with 6-8 MG's? er yeah, IS got plenty of new toys to play with, clans got what, an underused weapon that we can suddenly equip 2 more of which are only good when armor is stripped... and this is supposed to be an issue?

Cato Zilks, on 23 August 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

lol, ok douche!
MG's are designed to crit out weapons after armor is opened up. That is their one job.

8mg's have given the mist lynx a purpose and made them dangerous if unattended... but they still fall apart if you hit them with any force and they still need to get through your armor. Plus, the mist lynx is slow af for its class.

with the SHARD, the arctic cheetah can also fit 8 MG's, its also faster and can equip ECM at the same time.

[Methanoid]

Kroete, on 23 August 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

2 seconds for 8lmgs,
8x0,7 = 5,6dps
x2 = 11,2 damage

4 C-ER-ML also do 5,6 dps, but with 5.04 heat/second.

The damage is not the problem, but that dps without heat is a problem.

Limited ammo being the balancing factor.

Xmith, on 23 August 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

There is no facetime. It's more like circle of death. A good light pilot is not going to facetime MGs. Assaults have a difficult time when a light is performing the circle of death with MGs. It's even tough for the heavy pilot too. It's like, oh sh_t when ever I see a light with MGs heading my way. It's always gonna be trouble.

a circle of death means he isnt shooting the same spot, he is.. you know, circling around spreading small amounts of damage all over the place.

[The Basilisk]

tker 669, on 23 August 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

Mist lynx and arctic cheetahs are not in any way supposed to be the scariest mechs on the field. This is just getting stupid with people running up and instantly removing all of your weapons. Crit chance waaaay too high and beyond what is reasonable.

I rather suggest: "learn to aim"
First hit 3 ASRM6 right arm second hit left arm ... both gone.

[Methanoid]

GrimRiver, on 23 August 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

It takes waaaaay too long to chew through armor with MG's which is why those builds use lasers, so it really isn't the MG's doing the work, it's the lasers.

i was using lasers on the MLX, however now i use flamers, get close, do your circlejerk, flame away, a lot of the time they shut down reasonably quickly, meaning more LMG time for me in a decent position and more time for teammate LRM's to do their thing.

[DerMaulwurf]

Lykaon, on 23 August 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

[...]

Delicate and easily damaged/destroyed firepower

Has a simple and highly effective counter (streak boat light mechs)

The F--- do you need streaks for? We can mount 60 to 80 point laser alphas. One good salvo can cripple a MLX or at least force it to run away.

Hitting it is even easier than normal with lights, because a MG build has to stay close and facing towards its target.