325 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lord0fHats, on 17 September 2017 - 06:33 PM, said:

I was unaware expressions of disappointment weren't allowed here.



Why is it that people keep responding to people's opinions with this hyperbole? Acting oppressed? I'm not one to cite the 3rd (or fourth depending on variation) commandment, but you're going to take the lord's name in vain with this level of hyperbole?




Unless PGI is planning to break new ground in teammate AI, and for guys who claim they can't figure out the Cry Engine, I doubt that very much, I don't expect much. Granted I suddenly have an epic vision of complex squad commands with the ability to pause time, target an enemy component and command an ally to fire a specific weapon at it that would be so damn sick but I don't see PGI making that kind of stride and will only believe it when I see it.

As for my second point you actually didn't respond to it at all as much as bring up something else entirely. If the goal is for the mech to operate without resupply for a duration that LRM launcher makes even less sense and my suggested rebuild of dumping it for heavier lasers makes even more. I would actually be very averse to ammo in MW5, depending on the availability of resupply. There's a reason the PPC was my favorite weapon in MW4 Mercs. Range. Power. No ammo. The only ammo based weapons I used with SRMs, gauss rifles, and long toms for that one mission where you defend the pass and the enemy bottles up for you

I did experiment with LRMs but LRMs didn't work much better in that game than they do in MWO imo.

Battletech sense, does not = averge person sense.

Stop trying to equate the two. That missile weapon, is ment to be used until expended, then you rely on your lasers. This isn't a hard concept, especially if you're one who's ever attempted to play the board game.

Again,Yes, there are much better mechs suited for the job... no, you won't necessarily have access to that as a small merc outfit, and honestly, you may be put in a position, where you're god damned happy to get your hands on that nonsense armed heavy mech, because it's more armor and weaponry you wouldn't have otherwise.

Again, you're looking at this in a perfect bubble, that you have everything available to you the way you want it... the reality of that situation is you'll likely be scrounging by, and hoping for ever little bit of firepower and armor you can get.

[qS Sachiel]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 17 September 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

So, your whole "the game will fail" argument, does nothing, because games fail all the time, I paid 60USD for Aliens:Colonial Marines, I wasn't happy with it, but I'm sure, someone, out there is. Granted, I've stuck to my guns after that released, and have never bought anything from Gearbox since. And hey, that's my right.

aaand
now i have cancer.

though i applaud your abstinence.
I too have adopted this, which is unfortunate because homeworld looked good.... but RP can choke on his greasy hair for all i care.

Spoiler

nobodylikedACMneverforget

Edited by qS Sachiel, 17 September 2017 - 06:48 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

qS Sachiel, on 17 September 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

aaand
now i have cancer.

though i applaud your abstinence.
I too have adopted this, which is unfortunate because homeworld looked good.... but RP can choke on his greasy hair for all i care.

Spoiler

nobodylikedACMneverforget

Given there's a group on steam, that constantly plays, there's a dedicated playerbase for it that's like, around 100 people or so. So they do exist, and it's kinda weird.

[Lord0fHats]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 17 September 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

Battletech sense, does not = averge person sense.

Then it's best to stop trying to justify the convoluted builds by saying they make sense, cause if I have to ignore sense for them to make sense then they obviously don't make sense. I don't like that, especially when it takes away something I do like; customizing robots.

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Stop trying to equate the two

I'm not.

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This isn't a hard concept, especially if you're one who's ever attempted to play the board game.

At what point? BT's rules changed over the years. There was a time when you could store gauss rifles in the CT and the cockpit in the foot if you wanted to.

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Again, you're looking at this in a perfect bubble

I'm looking at it from a "this lore makes no sense" bubble, and then thinking about wanting to play a fun game not hamstrung by senseless and unimportant aspects of lore. To me important lore is actual background details. The houses. Who they are, what they do, the personality of the universe. I don't care about the intricate details of the dozens of varieties of the same mech chassis. That's an irrelevant petty detail to me and I don't care if they are ignored for the sake of fun.

Also, I can only hope MW5 enjoys the success of ACM. PGI will go under in a heart beat and I can dream of a more competent developer getting the IP. A dream I'm sure will be shattered, but yet I dream

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lord0fHats, on 17 September 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

Then it's best to stop trying to justify the convoluted builds by saying they make sense, cause if I have to ignore sense for them to make sense then they obviously don't make sense. I don't like that, especially when it takes away something I do like; customizing robots.



I'm not.



At what point? BT's rules changed over the years. There was a time when you could store gauss rifles in the CT and the cockpit in the foot if you wanted to.



I'm looking at it from a "this lore makes no sense" bubble, and then thinking about wanting to play a fun game not hamstrung by senseless and unimportant aspects of lore. To me important lore is actual background details. The houses. Who they are, what they do, the personality of the universe. I don't care about the intricate details of the dozens of varieties of the same mech chassis. That's an irrelevant petty detail to me and I don't care if they are ignored for the sake of fun.

Also, I can only hope MW5 enjoys the success of ACM. PGI will go under in a heart beat and I can dream of a more competent developer getting the IP. A dream I'm sure will be shattered, but yet I dream

1)If you're functioning within a specific established universe, you have to adhere to it's rules... dumb or not.

2)you really did, actually.

3)BT changed over the years, yes, and most of my knowlege of the board game, comes from it's most recent iteration, even if I do have grounding in first edition battletech... there was also a time when there was no AC other than an AC5.[first edition]

4)The lore need be consistant only, and in recent years, it really has been... but clearly you don't keep up.

5) PGI might be inept, but I doubt they'll ever be GEARBOX inept.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Mechlab was like 90% of the replayability for mechwarrior games for me. Definitely won't care to get MW5 without customization. Whole point of singleplayer is to be able to play around with some of the weird builds that you know wouldn't work in a multiplayer game, and to have a bit of freedom.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Dakota1000, on 17 September 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

Mechlab was like 90% of the replayability for mechwarrior games for me. Definitely won't care to get MW5 without customization. Whole point of singleplayer is to be able to play around with some of the weird builds that you know wouldn't work in a multiplayer game, and to have a bit of freedom.

There is no multiplayer no MW5, so your reason for wanting a mechlab is literally moot.

[Lord0fHats]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 17 September 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

1)If you're functioning within a specific established universe, you have to adhere to it's rules... dumb or not.

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.

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2)you really did, actually.

Nope. Suspending disbelief is one thing. I can accept in a moment that unicorns exist if that's core to the story. I've already accepted that putting a tank on legs and mounting its weapons on arms is a good idea just because rule of cool. But expecting me to believe that people in the 31st century have forgotten about interchangeable parts and modularity, but are still capable of interstellar travel is asking too much.

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there was also a time when there was no AC other than an AC5.[first edition]

Dark times indeed. That's not nearly enough dakka!

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5) PGI might be inept, but I doubt they'll ever be GEARBOX inept.

Exactly why I don't expect an outcome that dire.

[Kali Rinpoche]

Having played every BT product and all the PC games, I really don't care if there isn't an exstensive mechlab. I thought MW 4 was the easiest to customize, but I actually am looking forward to not being able to stick 13 SL on a build. It makes it more of a challenge to play not being able to overpower every build. The average mechwarrior or merc unit could very rarely ever min/max their mech without being super wealthy or having a house contract for upgraded tech. If I want to play with a mechlab, i've got 250 mechs to play with in MWO.

[Zergling]

inb4 claims mods in Fallout 4 should be banned for everyone, because they can break game balance and don't fit with the 'lore', nevermind mods are entirely optional.

Seriously, that is how arguments against customisation in MW5 seem to me.

Edited by Zergling, 17 September 2017 - 08:41 PM.

[DrxAbstract]

The disconnect and worrisome behavior of Russ Bullock between him and his projects is blatantly apparent in the statement concerning the JR7-F and JR7-D. As in why would anyone wait for an F variant with Ferro when they could put Ferro on their D variant... Really? REALLY?! Maybe because the D has 4x Energy, 2x Missile hardpoints versus the 6x Energy hardpoints of the F variant... Maybe?... Possibly? Because their performance and roles vary vastly between one another on that point alone?!

Good grief, Charlie Brown.

[JC Daxion]

oldradagast, on 17 September 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

But can I swap an ERPPC onto my Awesome 8Q, or do I have to wait around forever for an Awesome 9M to drop? Can I downgrade the LRM on my Atlas D to an LRM15 so I can add more ammo and heatsinks, or is that just utterly impossible because no specific Atlas was made that way? That's what I'm getting at here - limited customization within hardpoint number and type.

Where exactly does it say that you will have no customization? I missed that part,..


All it says, it won't have unlimited customization, and mech's will have clearly defined rolls.

[JC Daxion]

DrxAbstract, on 17 September 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

The disconnect and worrisome behavior of Russ Bullock between him and his projects is blatantly apparent in the statement concerning the JR7-F and JR7-D. As in why would anyone wait for an F variant with Ferro when they could put Ferro on their D variant... Really? REALLY?! Maybe because the D has 4x Energy, 2x Missile hardpoints versus the 6x Energy hardpoints of the F variant... Maybe?... Possibly? Because their performance and roles vary vastly between one another on that point alone?!

Good grief, Charlie Brown.

Or maybe he was just thinking off the top of his head as an example and just picked two random mechs? Would if make you feel better if he said The D and K, and the stock load out was 4 ML's + an SRM, and one had ferro? It's like trying to please someone that knows every single line of a movie by heart,, and the people that made the movie can't recall half.. Did that make the movie awful?

Have you every made anything? write anything? Sometimes you can make the stuff up, and forget key things.. (it's why when you look at code, people have notes all over the place, because you can't remember everything) Doesn't mean you don't understand it. Hell i wrote a book and forgot my damn main characters name.. Doesn't mean i don't know the character inside and out.. But man i totally spaced on that one night when i was telling someone about the story. I think at that point the person didn't even believe i wrote it.. ohh well.


Point is, he was making an example.. Maybe he should of said Commando 1A and 1D.. Exact same hard points, and i'm sure different loads..

[Bishop Steiner]

Zergling, on 17 September 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

inb4 claims mods in Fallout 4 should be banned for everyone, because they can break game balance and don't fit with the 'lore', nevermind mods are entirely optional.

Seriously, that is how arguments against customisation in MW5 seem to me.

I think there are fewer arguments against customization so much as arguments against the claim that the article says no customization. *shrugs*

[DrxAbstract]

JC Daxion, on 17 September 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

Or maybe he was just thinking off the top of his head as an example and just picked two random mechs? Would if make you feel better if he said The D and K, and the stock load out was 4 ML's + an SRM, and one had ferro? It's like trying to please someone that knows every single line of a movie by heart,, and the people that made the movie can't recall half.. Did that make the movie awful?

Have you every made anything? write anything? Sometimes you can make the stuff up, and forget key things.. (it's why when you look at code, people have notes all over the place, because you can't remember everything) Doesn't mean you don't understand it. Hell i wrote a book and forgot my damn main characters name.. Doesn't mean i don't know the character inside and out.. But man i totally spaced on that one night when i was telling someone about the story. I think at that point the person didn't even believe i wrote it.. ohh well.


Point is, he was making an example.. Maybe he should of said Commando 1A and 1D.. Exact same hard points, and i'm sure different loads..

Anyone who's anyone that works in the gaming industry knows there are 2 cardinal rules:

1. Know your product(s).
2. Crosscheck EVERYTHING.

He may have pulled the Jenner off the top of his head, but the fact he made such a grievous error in comparison shows he knows next-to-nothing about it. From an investor's perspective: Would you have faith in a man that knows so little about literally the ONLY product he's responsible for producing. Moreover, it would have taken 30 seconds to verify, validate and approve that statement had it been done by anyone with actual business acumen... Therein lies the point you missed.

[Bishop Steiner]

DrxAbstract, on 17 September 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

The disconnect and worrisome behavior of Russ Bullock between him and his projects is blatantly apparent in the statement concerning the JR7-F and JR7-D. As in why would anyone wait for an F variant with Ferro when they could put Ferro on their D variant... Really? REALLY?! Maybe because the D has 4x Energy, 2x Missile hardpoints versus the 6x Energy hardpoints of the F variant... Maybe?... Possibly? Because their performance and roles vary vastly between one another on that point alone?!

Good grief, Charlie Brown.

Well, the bigger disconnect is that the JR7-F doesn't come with Endo anyhow. It simply trades the SRM4 for more armor.

It's the JR7-K that comes with Ferro, and CASE.

And there is a very good reason actually one might wait. The game starts in 3015. The JF7-K doesn't hit production until 3047. And Ferro doesn't even get re-invented until 3035. So as a Merc, without a Factory or NAIS to do the retrofit? Kind of makes sense....

In fact depending on where you are in the Inner Sphere as things come online? You might not even have access. So, while I admit this is purely speculation, but maybe, just maybe there is less of a disconnect than perhaps you think?

DrxAbstract, on 17 September 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

Anyone who's anyone that works in the gaming industry knows there are 2 cardinal rules:

1. Know your product(s).
2. Crosscheck EVERYTHING.

He may have pulled the Jenner off the top of his head, but the fact he made such a grievous error in comparison shows he knows next-to-nothing about it. From an investor's perspective: Would you have faith in a man that knows so little about literally the ONLY product he's responsible for producing. Moreover, it would have taken 30 seconds to verify, validate and approve that statement had it been done by anyone with actual business acumen... Therein lies the point you missed.

I know this IP better than most of the people who work for the Studios... and certainly more than almost anyone on here. And guess what? I misspeak or sometimes mislabel stuff too.

It happens. Seriously. I'm sure you've made mistakes, too. But oh yeah, because he's the face of the company he has to be perfect all the time?

[DrxAbstract]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 September 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

Well, the bigger disconnect is that the JR7-F doesn't come with Endo anyhow. It simply trades the SRM4 for more armor.

It's the JR7-K that comes with Ferro, and CASE.

And there is a very good reason actually one might wait. The game starts in 3015. The JF7-K doesn't hit production until 3047. And Ferro doesn't even get re-invented until 3035. So as a Merc, without a Factory or NAIS to do the retrofit? Kind of makes sense....

In fact depending on where you are in the Inner Sphere as things come online? You might not even have access. So, while I admit this is purely speculation, but maybe, just maybe there is less of a disconnect than perhaps you think?


I know this IP better than most of the people who work for the Studios... and certainly more than almost anyone on here. And guess what? I misspeak or sometimes mislabel stuff too.

It happens. Seriously. I'm sure you've made mistakes, too. But oh yeah, because he's the face of the company he has to be perfect all the time?

Considering Ferro Fibrous itself was developed in 2571, Jenner production began in 2784 versus the Succession Wars at 2786 and the JR7-D being a fictional(non-canonical) variant with no official year of production... Draw some conclusions.

Point in case is not "I never make mistakes.", but nice strawman. The point is: "I'm the CEO of ----- company and repeatedly make incorrect statements regarding my product that could have been prevented had I taken a minute of my time to actually look into what I was talking about to know the premise and provide reassurance to my investors and customers that I have some inkling of an idea of what I am doing."

Have a good night, Bishop.

[JC Daxion]

DrxAbstract, on 17 September 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

Anyone who's anyone that works in the gaming industry knows there are 2 cardinal rules:

1. Know your product(s).
2. Crosscheck EVERYTHING.

He may have pulled the Jenner off the top of his head, but the fact he made such a grievous error in comparison shows he knows next-to-nothing about it. From an investor's perspective: Would you have faith in a man that knows so little about literally the ONLY product he's responsible for producing. Moreover, it would have taken 30 seconds to verify, validate and approve that statement had it been done by anyone with actual business acumen... Therein lies the point you missed.

First, i didn't realize you were an investor..


Second, his example does not mean he knows nothing about his product.. How many times have you talked to devs? People can miss things,.. I watch all the battle tech vids, and listen to mitch talk.. he says all the time.. What was that mech? Which one had that weapon? When was the last time you saw anyone flame Mitch for saying something like that?There are so many moving parts to a game, all i care about is if the folks do there job. A CEO's job isn't to know everything about everything. They have people for that. About the only thing Russ is guilty of is not using a professional PR person because with this lot anything that is not spot on is all of a sudden DOOM


He was making a simple point, but i guess that won't satisfy some. Yes he could have stopped the interview, Got up, walked to his computer, looked up a mech that had his exact point, and came back to satisfy the folks that know every single aspect of everything..




But right from sarna.. it would seam that they are not all that different as you think.

After the failure of the initial Jenner model and its weaponry, the JR7-F was the Combine's first attempt to rectify this problem. While it mounts the same four Argra 3L medium lasers as the D model, it does not mount the SRM-4 launcher, in its place carrying three more tons of armor. While lacking any ammunition-based weaponry made it a superior raider, additional testing found that it lacked in short-ranged firepower, which led to the addition of the missile launcher. A few of this variant continued into the thirty-first century^[3][2][ BV (1.0) = 792, BV (2.0) = 1,011^[9]



So it looks like he knows what he is talking about, Unless of course Sarna is wrong? Or maybe there game is not exact lore, and the difference between the two he was talking about is just Ferro. I have not read anywhere that the game is going to be table top lore verbatim.

Edited by JC Daxion, 17 September 2017 - 09:51 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

InfinityBall, on 17 September 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

You might think so, but a judge just ruled that a cop couldn't be convicted of murder for saying "I'm going to kill that mother******" and then shooting him to death because that wasn't clear enough in intention.

Don't you think that there's a difference between finding someone guilty via court system and a few jury, versus language and communication? Sure the cop wasn't convicted, but he did mean to kill someone all the same.

[Ertur]

Customizing the mechs is half the fun of the game, or maybe more. Most of the default builds are, frankly, complete crap for an FPS kind of game, anyways. But there are different levels of customization.

Level 1: To swap out one kind of weapon for another of the same kind (energy for engery, missile for missile, etc), provided they are the same size (edit to add: or if the new weapon is smaller), should be easy enough to be done at any repair depot. It should cost whatever the new weapon costs + 50-100% for labor costs (depending on how much the faction controlling that depot likes you). Adding additional armor or heatsinks of the existing kind could also be done here. Almost every world would have a repair depot.
edit to add: removing a weapon or system would be done at this level, too. It would cost 50-100% of the value of the weapon (you're paying someone to do the work, after all), and you would get the weapon back in your inventory once it is done.

Level 2: To swap out one kind of weapon for another of the same kind, but of different sizes, or to fill an unused pre-existing hardpoint should cost whatever the weapon costs + 125-175%; but could only be done at a location where there is a full-fledged factory. There would also be a one or two mission wait for the work to be done. Likewise for any upgrade to the kind of armor or heatsinks. Most worlds don't have factories, so most places wouldn't allow for this to be done. Adding case or moving where ammo is kept would be this level, too.

Level 3: To upgrade or change the existing engine or structure should require not only that the work be done at a factory, it should have to be a factory that can handle that specific kind of mech. Only Kurita (and eventually FRR, I think) can handle Jenners; only Cappella can handle Ravens. Some mechs like the Shadowhawk or Thunderbolt are ubiquitous, but there's a lot that are basically linked to a particular faction. There should be a faction relationship standard that would have to be met (if Kurita hates you, they won't let you arm yourself at their factories), and the work would have to be done in their territory at one of their factories. This is basically rebuilding the mech from the inside out, after all. Cost should be the cost of materials + 200-250% and there should be a painfully long wait time (4-6 missions or so). If your relationship with that faction sours while the work is being done, then there should be an increasingly high chance that they seize your mech, with the chance being nearly certain if they hate you, but about 50-50 if they don't just don't trust you completely.

Edited by Ertur, 17 September 2017 - 10:44 PM.