325 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Are there going to be Mech expansion packs for sale or just game expansions?

Thorn Hallis, on 19 September 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I expect salvage to be a rather heavy part of MW5, as PGI seems to rely more on lore then on rules for the game.



Maybe, but then its hardly dynamic, isn't it?
I fondly remember the one moment where the game told me I salvaged a Dasher in the results screen, then crashed and after I reload the game the Dasher suddenly became a Masakari.

Umm, with no Mechlab what will you do with your Salvage in MW5?

[Alan Davion]

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

Umm, with no Mechlab what will you do with your Salvage in MW5?

Just because you can't tear apart and rebuild your mech like in MWO and previous MW games doesn't mean there isn't going to be a "repair and rearm" function.

You legged and left a mech on the field or destroyed a mech by shooting out its legs or scored a lucky headshot? That's a new mech you possibly just added to your roster if RNGeezus is kind to you, all you have to do is fix up its head or legs and bang, you got a new mech to either pilot or sell.

[Lightfoot]

Alan Davion, on 19 September 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

Just because you can't tear apart and rebuild your mech like in MWO and previous MW games doesn't mean there isn't going to be a "repair and rearm" function.

You legged and left a mech on the field or destroyed a mech by shooting out its legs or scored a lucky headshot? That's a new mech you possibly just added to your roster if RNGeezus is kind to you, all you have to do is fix up its head or legs and bang, you got a new mech to either pilot or sell.

OK, but re-arm and re-fit with a new weapon is Mechlab. Getting a new mech as Salvage and repairing and arming it with what weapons you have available is MechLab. Just changing the MechLab rules and options is done in every MechWarrior game. PGI is saying No MechLab.

[Alan Davion]

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

OK, but re-arm and re-fit with a new weapon is Mechlab. Getting a new mech as Salvage and repairing and arming it with what weapons you have available is MechLab. Just changing the MechLab rules and options is done in every MechWarrior game. PGI is saying No MechLab.

No, repair and rearm was not mechlab. Go back and play MW2:Mercs if you're able to on your PC.

There was a very specific "repair/rearm" function that was completely separate from the actual mechlab in MW2:Mercs.

The repair/rearm function allowed you to just straight up replace damaged/destroyed portions of your mech, and any destroyed weapons/ammo on said mech, provided you had replacement weapons and ammo.

The mechlab allowed you to reconfigure your mech in the event you did NOT have exact replacements for the weapons and ammo that would otherwise be fixed through the normal repair and rearm function.

I'll use the basic COM-2D Commando as an example, since I've been using it as an example a lot I figure I'll just stick with it.

Say you lost your Commando's right arm and the SRM6 mounted there during a mission. After the mission is over and you're back on your dropship, you could repair the Commando's right arm easy enough, but if you didn't have a replacement SRM6, that weapon would be "redded out", otherwise known as destroyed and you would then have to go into the mechlab to rip out that destroyed weapon, and put in a different one if you wanted that Commando to still be somewhat usable.

You don't need a mechlab to repair and rearm your mech if you play it smart and make sure you have replacements for all the weapons and ammo you have on a mech.

[Thorn Hallis]

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

Umm, with no Mechlab what will you do with your Salvage in MW5?

Repair/switch lost or damaged equipment, sell it on the market, exchange it for other equipment, mothball it for the next dark age...did I miss anything?

Btw, noone said that there will be no 'Mechlab.

[Bishop Steiner]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 19 September 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

Its a strategic Roundbased Game who you command more Mechs ..mW5 you alone against more as one Enemy ;)in real Time..or the Bots have a low Level AI and not more as Canonfodder ...with a light and MGs and small lasers against 2 lances ?...my most horrible Miission in MW2 the Escape with the hovertank and the Fight against Couldron Born and many Enemys..and the last with a custom Mech ...horrible to fight with Weapons thats not my playstyle ..im never a brawler

so don't buy a brawling mech? Or if you don't want immersion stick to MWO?

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

Are there going to be Mech expansion packs for sale or just game expansions?



Umm, with no Mechlab what will you do with your Salvage in MW5?

Kindly show me which part of the article Russ says there will be no Mechlab?

He said:
-Much less customization than MWO
-Preserve Mech identity and roles.

Beyond that is your words, not his.

Thorn Hallis, on 19 September 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

Repair/switch lost or damaged equipment, sell it on the market, exchange it for other equipment, mothball it for the next dark age...did I miss anything?

Btw, noone said that there will be no 'Mechlab.

don't tax their brains with tirvial details like the facts.

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

You don't think that the most asked for MechWarrior feature is the Dynamic Salvage from MechWarrior 2? For those who don't remember MW2, when you salvaged your kills you got what was left undamaged during the fight and nothing else. So if you wanted the mech or a weapon from it, it had to be left in decent shape. Mechs that were too damaged were not salvageable, however any mech that was left repairable could be salvaged.

In the list of things people ask for from a MechWarrior game, dynamic salvage like MW2 has to be near the top.

So you have some sort of proof of your position? Please show me your reams of data that this is so.

[Lightfoot]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 September 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

so don't buy a brawling mech? Or if you don't want immersion stick to MWO?


Kindly show me which part of the article Russ says there will be no Mechlab?

He said:
-Much less customization than MWO
-Preserve Mech identity and roles.

Beyond that is your words, not his.


don't tax their brains with tirvial details like the facts.


So you have some sort of proof of your position? Please show me your reams of data that this is so.

No Mechlab is implied by the example of no armor type changes. I don't know what MW5 will actually feature, no one here does. I would just not want them to completely leave out Mech customization because it adds great gameplay depth to MechWarrior and nothing about the level of customization allowed is mentioned in the printed article page associated with this thread. I just want MechWarrior 5 to be great and so far it sounds like it will be much better than just great.

Now for reams of data showing players liked MW2's dynamic salvage, it's more a case of whenever players posted thread's about the lack of dynamic salvage being a failing point of MechWarrior 3 and 4 that no one ever posted back that they preferred getting the same stuff each time they played the mission. Dropship Command probably has it archived somewhere. At any rate it was a feature that added realism to your mission experience and that is always a good thing.

Dropship Command is not responding for me however. It did earlier this year. Draconis scumbags must have taken it out.

Edited by Lightfoot, 19 September 2017 - 01:21 PM.

[Athom83]

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

OK, but re-arm and re-fit with a new weapon is Mechlab. Getting a new mech as Salvage and repairing and arming it with what weapons you have available is MechLab. Just changing the MechLab rules and options is done in every MechWarrior game. PGI is saying No MechLab.

As said, noone said their will be no mechlab. Just that the market is variant based and that customization will be limited/restricted. Meaning no changing armor values, structure/armor types, nor doing massive reworks of a mech's weapons (pulling the PPCs out of the arms of a Warhammer and putting them in the chest for example). Russ's statement in PC gamer seemed to infer that you can customize weapons somewhat.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

No Mechlab is implied by the example of no armor type changes. I don't know what MW5 will actually feature, no one here does. I would just not want them to completely leave out Mech customization because it adds great gameplay depth to MechWarrior and nothing about the level of customization allowed is mentioned in the printed article page associated with this thread. I just want MechWarrior 5 to be great and so far it sounds like it will be much better than just great.

Now for reams of data showing players liked MW2's dynamic salvage, it's more a case of whenever players posted thread's about the lack of dynamic salvage being a failing point of MechWarrior 3 and 4 that no one ever posted back that they preferred getting the same stuff each time they played the mission. Dropship Command probably has it archived somewhere. At any rate it was a feature that added realism to your mission experience and that is always a good thing.

Dropship Command is not responding for me however. It did earlier this year. Draconis scumbags must have taken it out.

No, it's actually not. Guess what? You can't swap engines in the HBS battletech game. It is still going to have a mechlab.

In other words. You don't know a damn thing about what's is or isn't going to be beyond EXACTLY what Russ said, and the rest you are pulling out of your butt. As per usual.

[Grus]

Don't know if this has been aired but I don't like the all out abandon of the mechlab.
I would be more ok with a even more restrictive version of mw4 mech lab.

Example
Class hardpoints; I'm not talking about ballistic or energy but the size or even type. So for example, if you have a 20 class ballistic in your ST then you could fit a lbx20 or gauss. Not a MG. If you can mount in another slot a med Las then you could swap that out for a pl of that type only. Think of it like internal electrical connections required to "power" said component let alone the size of the "bay" it's housed in.

[Bishop Steiner]

Grus, on 19 September 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

Don't know if this has been aired but I don't like the all out abandon of the mechlab.
I would be more ok with a even more restrictive version of mw4 mech lab.

Example
Class hardpoints; I'm not talking about ballistic or energy but the size or even type. So for example, if you have a 20 class ballistic in your ST then you could fit a lbx20 or gauss. Not a MG. If you can mount in another slot a med Las then you could swap that out for a pl of that type only. Think of it like internal electrical connections required to "power" said component let alone the size of the "bay" it's housed in.

Again the article does not say they are abandoning the mechlab. It says less customization than MWO, and Chassis Roles and Identities will be preserved. Nothing more. It does not say we wont have a mechlab or be able totally unable to customize. It also doesn't say that we will.

[topgun505]

Good. Pretty much ALL of the MW series lacked the soul of Battletech because the mech lab permitted the user to completely change all mechs from the original role each unit was purposely built for and completely redesigned it to be something else. Mechs in the CBT universe were NOT optimismed to the extreme ... they leaned towards a specific role BUT usually had a smattering of various weapons in order to deal with a variety of situations. We don't have that here. And never really have in the life of the MW series, because of the level of customization in the mechlab. One of the versions (I forget which, 3 maybe?) limited customization by limiting both the type AND size of a weapon you could put at the original weapons hardpoint location. But even that usually could still usually allow you to redeisgn the mech completely away from its given role. Honestly if you want to do that, then why have canon chassis at all? Just start with a blank endoskeleton of a given tonnage and start from scratch, because that is essentially what you are doing. Honestly I look forward to MW5, it sounds like a refreshing change of pace.

[Bishop Steiner]

topgun505, on 19 September 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

Good. Pretty much ALL of the MW series lacked the soul of Battletech because the mech lab permitted the user to completely change all mechs from the original role each unit was purposely built for and completely redesigned it to be something else. Mechs in the CBT universe were NOT optimismed to the extreme ... they leaned towards a specific role BUT usually had a smattering of various weapons in order to deal with a variety of situations. We don't have that here. And never really have in the life of the MW series, because of the level of customization in the mechlab. One of the versions (I forget which, 3 maybe?) limited customization by limiting both the type AND size of a weapon you could put at the original weapons hardpoint location. But even that usually could still usually allow you to redeisgn the mech completely away from its given role. Honestly if you want to do that, then why have canon chassis at all? Just start with a blank endoskeleton of a given tonnage and start from scratch, because that is essentially what you are doing. Honestly I look forward to MW5, it sounds like a refreshing change of pace.

You sir are obviously not a TREW KVLT hardcore Mechwarrior fan. In fact you hate the franchise. I can tell. Because all TREW fans love unlimited customization and know, I mean KNOW IN YOUR BONES, that that customization is the heart and soul of this franchise!

(And all the above is said with tongue firmly in cheek, because TBH... while I do have fun tinkering in the mechlabs... what you said is 100% true about actually killing the feel of the actual in game universe.)

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Alan Davion, on 19 September 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

Yeah, a standard game feature that people blissfully ignored.

I bet you 9 times out of 10 the people that played the previous Mechwarrior PC games did one thing with the mech lab.

Rip out whatever weapons the mech had.

Replace them with as many lasers as they could.

Win.

BORING~!

And here's the thing, I USED TO DO THAT TOO.

But I was young, and impressionable, and just wanted to win without thought.

Once I hit college, I grew up, started playing my mechs as close to lore as I could, and ended up having much, much more challenging, richer gameplay experiences for it.

I get the desire for quick, fun, wish fufillment win scenarios...

But if you want a deep, investing game that is more challenging, and more replayable... locking down the customization is a better option IMO.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 19 September 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

Its a strategic Roundbased Game who you command more Mechs ..mW5 you alone against more as one Enemy ;)in real Time..or the Bots have a low Level AI and not more as Canonfodder ...with a light and MGs and small lasers against 2 lances ?...my most horrible Miission in MW2 the Escape with the hovertank and the Fight against Couldron Born and many Enemys..and the last with a custom Mech ...horrible to fight with Weapons thats not my playstyle ..im never a brawler

Wrong, MW5 is you + your lance vs the enemy.

Try again ranger, and really you REALLY should take some time, look over your posts, and ensure you're posting something that's actually able to be understood, I'm sure it's a language barrier thing, but most of the time, we can barely get half of what you're trying to say, because it's a jumble of words that don't fit together properly.

don't mean to ride you man, just, it's why you don't get that many replies to what you post.

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

OK, but re-arm and re-fit with a new weapon is Mechlab. Getting a new mech as Salvage and repairing and arming it with what weapons you have available is MechLab. Just changing the MechLab rules and options is done in every MechWarrior game. PGI is saying No MechLab.

you're forgetting you'll be getting mechs as rewards/salvage/bought. That ERLL might be installed on a special mech you got as a reward, and only salvaging one from the field will allow you to repair it if destroyed.

[Alan Davion]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 19 September 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

And here's the thing, I USED TO DO THAT TOO.

But I was young, and impressionable, and just wanted to win without thought.

Once I hit college, I grew up, started playing my mechs as close to lore as I could, and ended up having much, much more challenging, richer gameplay experiences for it.

I get the desire for quick, fun, wish fufillment win scenarios...

But if you want a deep, investing game that is more challenging, and more replayable... locking down the customization is a better option IMO.

I did the same, up until I hit about 16, in the middle of high school, constantly with my nose in the next Battletech novel.

I went back and replayed MW2:Mercs and tried to play with as many ballistic based mechs as I could, since I had a thing for Grayson Death Carlyle and his Shadow Hawk or Marauder. The Centurion and Sentinel being the two earliest mechs I could get my hands on in the game, before I could get my hands on something like a Hunchback or a Jagermech or a Victor.

On another playthrough I got my hands on a Catapult as soon as I could and just rained death from afar with impunity with massed LRMs.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

So, I was thinking about it, and one thing that might go a LONG way to playcating some of the playerbase, is the release of a demo version.

Let us play, what the PCG guys played, let us get our hands on what got them so excited... let us see how it feels right now, as is. So we can at least have a baseline of what to expect.

[Alan Davion]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 20 September 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

So, I was thinking about it, and one thing that might go a LONG way to playcating some of the playerbase, is the release of a demo version.

Let us play, what the PCG guys played, let us get our hands on what got them so excited... let us see how it feels right now, as is. So we can at least have a baseline of what to expect.

Maybe it's just me but I don't imagine PGI will release a demo of MW5 until probably MechCon at the earliest.

The demo the PCGamer guys got was just the combat side of things from the sound of it. And, while combat is great and all, I think aside from a few elements like aerospace fighters/helicopters/tanks in the demo, I think we all know how the combat in MW5 will work coming from MWO.

I would be honestly okay if PGI didn't release a demo until some of the non-combat systems were up and running, free market, travel, repair/rearm, maybe even whatever limited mechbay system they'll have going.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Alan Davion, on 20 September 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

Maybe it's just me but I don't imagine PGI will release a demo of MW5 until probably MechCon at the earliest.

The demo the PCGamer guys got was just the combat side of things from the sound of it. And, while combat is great and all, I think aside from a few elements like aerospace fighters/helicopters/tanks in the demo, I think we all know how the combat in MW5 will work coming from MWO.

I would be honestly okay if PGI didn't release a demo until some of the non-combat systems were up and running, free market, travel, repair/rearm, maybe even whatever limited mechbay system they'll have going.

That's the thing though, if the footage we saw at last mechcon was any indication, it actually looked more, plodding, and slow, more intentional, with more impact. I have a large desire to get my hands on that [not enough to fly to Canada mind you to try it at this years mech con, but yeah.]

[Valhallan]

Koniving, on 19 September 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:

MEKHQ Stuff

Yea quirks seems borked on my version, guess i should update then.

Ah ok so it's not really in-budgeting, i thought mekhq made a new budgeting thing in the latest version separate from the main unit finances.

Yea, salary seems pretty low still though at the final costs. Well relative to the more sensible percentage maintenance and item costs, the salary is only a lot relative to the ridiculous base maintenance costs. Never bothered with overtime though, since i just left them on the factory world while the unit was doing a contract, picking them up later.

Whaaaaat, i liked random . After the initial hulabaloo i just used the market for techs, who went through job apprenticeship (doing the boring easy stuff like loading ammo and fixing armor). For combat personnel i used the prisoner system, have a lot of one legged vehicle gunners, mech warriors (be more FUN if a loyalty system get's slapped in the future).