216 replies to this topic

[Joey Tankblaster]

Ok gents,

this is not a rant about LURMs in general but more a rant about LURM pilots. The whole buddy lock feature in MWO is really painful and nonsense from a game design perspective.

I just hate those LURM pilots who do not share their armour, intel and firepower with their team in a meaningful way.

We already have lock after direct sighting, TAG-laser, UAVs and NARC. This is enough. I really don't see the necessity to promote a playstyle which favours cowardeous hidding in the third row waiting for others to do the job (e.g. locking up targets).

Buddy lock destroys role warfare. Lights on a scouting mission just get cought by an enemy light, locked up and lurmed to death. It's senseless.

What is the point of this design? I am fine with a substantial buff for LURMs if buddy lock is removed.

Get rid of buddy lock ASAP.

My 2 cents

[Bombast]

Joey Tankblaster, on 09 October 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

Buddy lock destroys role warfare.

...No it doesn't.

Seriously, I kind of get what you're saying, but this is wrong. Sharing locks is a huge avenue for role warfare.

As for the rest of it... Listen, this isn't a LRM problem. Gauss boats, ERLL boats, PPC poptarts, they all do the same thing. Changing how locks doesn't fix that. You're getting angry at the wrong thing.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bombast, on 09 October 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

...No it doesn't.

Seriously, I kind of get what you're saying, but this is wrong. Sharing locks is a huge avenue for role warfare.

In what way is it essential for role warfare? Sharing locks and the fact lock-on missiles don't care about having LoS to lock-on is actually the problem with LRM mechanics given that it is for all intents and purposes in this game, an artillery weapon.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 October 2017 - 07:34 AM.

[Bombast]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 October 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

In what way is it essential for role warfare? Sharing locks and the fact lock-on missiles don't care about having LoS to lock-on is actually the problem with LRM mechanics given that it is for all intents and purposes in this game, an artillery weapon.

Sharing data is a huge part of role warfare. And it doesn't just affect LRM boats. You can argue that it's done poorly in this game, but removing shared locks so that everyone always has to see everything on there own is how you kill role warfare forever.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bombast, on 09 October 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Sharing data is a huge part of role warfare.

Again, what role does it encourage? What role somehow becomes a thing with sharing locks?

There isn't a single role that I can think of that actually couldn't be a thing in a world without lock sharing.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 October 2017 - 07:40 AM.

[MadRover]

Agree with the OP. Especially when assault mechs are hiding in the back not sharing their armor because they brought LRMs.

[Bombast]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 October 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

Again, what role does it encourage? What role somehow becomes a thing with sharing locks?

Is being able to see things not directly in front of you seriously not enough? Do lights and scouts really need another general reduction in capacity?

Having someone be able to scout and provide locks for people allows for brawlers to advance in confidence and ranged people to function without squinting at their screens. Having someone be able to provide enemy data to you is invaluable. Again, you can argue the game does it badly - I would - but removing shared data reduces everyone to static turrets or blind YOLOers. Scouting should matter.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bombast, on 09 October 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

Is being able to see things not directly in front of you seriously not enough? Do lights and scouts really need another general reduction in capacity?

How is that a reduction in capacity for scouts.....? Scouts can share information without using the buddy sharing lock, that's what VOIP is for, if anything it puts QP more in-line with comp given that sharing locks isn't how you get useful scouting info in comp (especially since you can't share seismic targets).

Bombast, on 09 October 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

Scouting should matter.

I'm not sure why you seem to think it doesn't even without shared locks. It just changes how you get that info (VOIP or text rather than through the game).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 October 2017 - 07:52 AM.

[Tarogato]

Agree with the OP.

I think people are misunderstanding. Allied missile locks is the problem that makes LRMs imbalanced, not shared targeting in general.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tarogato, on 09 October 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

Allied missile locks is the problem that makes LRMs imbalanced

True, which is why many have asked missile locks to be reworked but PGI seems pretty resistant to that.

Fixing that and you could easily keep target sharing since it just makes scouting a bit easier in solo queue since most don't bother with VOIP or text for important info.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 October 2017 - 07:54 AM.

[Sigmar Sich]

Lock time needs to be longer for indirect fire. Even x2 would be enough. This is old idea from ECM discussion times.

[Bombast]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 October 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

How is that a reduction in capacity for scouts.....? Scouts can share information without using the buddy sharing lock, that's what VOIP is for, if anything it puts QP more in-line with comp given that sharing locks isn't how you get useful scouting info in comp (especially since you can't share seismic targets).

So MWO should have mandatory mics, rather than an ingame indicator.

Yah. **** that with the wide end of a rake.

Edited by Bombast, 09 October 2017 - 07:59 AM.

[Rovertoo]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 October 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

How is that a reduction in capacity for scouts.....? Scouts can share information without using the buddy sharing lock, that's what VOIP is for, if anything it puts QP more in-line with comp given that sharing locks isn't how you get useful scouting info in comp (especially since you can't share seismic targets).


I'm not sure why you seem to think it doesn't even without shared locks. It just changes how you get that info (VOIP or text rather than through the game).

Removing buddy locks would be a direct reduction in scouting capacity, straight up. When I scout, one of my main goals is to get locks for my team. You might be able to argue your point in other ways, but saying that removing locks would neither help nor harm scouts in any way is pretty wild. Scouting is the one role in most danger of being obsolete anyhow. Take away the locks and the only purpose to scouting is purely for positioning info, which is moslty useless because people only ever go to the same spots on maps anyways.

Edited by Rovertoo, 09 October 2017 - 08:36 AM.

[LordNothing]

id rather have something like the c3 in mwll. its another role for lights and kind of enforces a certain proximity from your team mates, close enough to relay data but far enough to gather it. mwo meanwhile has free target sharing for everyone at all ranges, even for those pilots who are woefully out of position. so there is no reason to change your positioning. passive radar made information sharing even more valuable. lerms become a teamwork++ weapon and stop being a noob weapon and a crutch to players beyond a certain level of skill.

[Nightbird]

Free C3 computers for everyone! -MWO

[Joey Tankblaster]

Sharing battlefield reconnaissance does not necessarily mean you that you can use it to lock up and fire. You can have a level system were a level 1 information means rough position and loadout (provided by a scout) but this shared information is not precise enough for a missile lock. A stage 2 information provided by direct (own) sighting, TAG-laser, UAVs and NARC however is detailed enough to enable missile lock and guidance.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Rovertoo, on 09 October 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

Take away the locks and the only purpose to scouting is purely for positioning info

That is the only purpose of scouting, or at the very least the MOST IMPORTANT part of it.

Rovertoo, on 09 October 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

which is moslty useless because people only ever go to the same spots on maps anyways.

In lower level play sure, then again, even LRM boats should be getting their own locks. You think Jman hid in the back of the pack with his LRMback relying on lights to get locks? Get real, he was often leading the pack. Sorry, but the main advantage of scouting has ALWAYS been positional related which is why "scouts" suffer in PUG queue because very few know what to do with that information (group queue is actually more consistent with movements to the same areas than solo queue). Sharing locks for LRMs is the reason LRMs are in the position they are (jokes on a majority of maps when players aren't spuds) and shouldn't be the reason "scouts" exist.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 October 2017 - 09:36 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Nightbird, on 09 October 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

Free C3 computers for everyone! -MWO

Locks don't make my Gauss Rifles have 4 KM/s velocity

That's what C3 would do in MWO (same time to target as short range being one silly interpretation)

[Dread Render]

how many times have you seen a movie where they call in an air or arty strike?
hmm...
OP may have something here.
Guys with LRMs are not 3rd party game elements.

[KHETTI]

Target/data/info sharing is fine, third party lock-ons has promoted and encouraged bad LRM play and hindered their balancing, it should have never been implemented in the first place, and i'd be all for its removal.

Edited by KHETTI, 09 October 2017 - 10:13 AM.