205 replies to this topic

[Roadbuster]

InspectorG, on 15 November 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

You mean press W?

You are crazy.

Alot of people keep telling me the same, maybe there's a pint of truth somewhere...
But if people work together and push together when a push is called, or when it's raining LRMs already with no way to break lock fast enough to limit the damage, pressing W would really work.
Of course you can't just dash right into the enemy from 1000m away. That's suicide. You have to use the limited cover as good as you can to get as close as you can before jumpinng in the opponents face.

Well...I got to look for that pint of truth now...

[Felbombling]

Kuaron, on 15 November 2017 - 04:30 AM, said:

You forgot to explain the “necessary” part.

Very last sentence of my post. You must not have read that far into it.

[Mystere]

The6thMessenger, on 15 November 2017 - 11:42 PM, said:

Respect is two-way.

Disrespect is have it deleted or have it stay being hated, respect is only having it less hated and acknowledge one another and meet people halfway. But no, that kind of respect seems to be too much.

His use of "respect" is not the same as the one you are referring to. Context is important.

[ESC 907]

I think a good solution would also be to make it so there's a few tunnels. Ever seen the video of a snowmachine going through a glacial cave in Alaska?


Above video is a good example of what I think would be a good solution. You can either risk LRMageddon above, or risk a LRM-free but sparsely covered push through a tunnel.

[Mystere]

ESC 907, on 16 November 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

I think a good solution would also be to make it so there's a few tunnels. Ever seen the video of a snowmachine going through a glacial cave in Alaska?


Above video is a good example of what I think would be a good solution. You can either risk LRMageddon above, or risk a LRM-free but sparsely covered push through a tunnel.

Sure, as long as I can make them collapse.

Edited by Mystere, 16 November 2017 - 02:23 PM.

[Kalimaster]

Nobody gonna be happy with anything because they can't get past the fact that this is a game and whey they die they can't hit the power button and restart the game so they never really die. Get over it, open wide for laser vomit or LRM's or even ballistic because somebody hates one weapon over the others and likes one weapon over the others. This is the reason why we don't have anything good in the game because everything been Nerfed to near oblivion.

[Lupis Volk]

How to fix Polar Highlands? Simple....remove it. It's a badly designed map that supports a toxic gameplay, aka: leaving assaults behind and encouraging lurrmers.

[The6thMessenger]

Mystere, on 16 November 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

His use of "respect" is not the same as the one you are referring to. Context is important.

Okay, lets put it this way. If he's not going to respect that people want change PH so that it's not generally a grueling experience, why would we respect that they want Polar Highlands to stay that way?

Why would we give way to what they want, if they are not going to give way what we want?

The two sides not budging won't result in anything. Compromise, because favoring only one is divisive.

If you (and the other guy) don't want to have it changed, fine. But don't have the gall to ask for people to respect what you want. Cause sure as hell you're not respecting what others want.

[Wolfways]

The6thMessenger, on 15 November 2017 - 10:19 PM, said:

But i do see AMS or 2x AMS heavies time to time, but a lot more frequent is LRM80A supernovas, especially when it's PH.

So players have figured out how to choose their mech after seeing which map they're dropping on?
I very much doubt the types of mechs you're seeing vary depending on the map played.

Quote

I'm actually okay with diversity, just not with extremes like sniper-only or lrm-only, hell even AC-only or brawler-only maps.

So you should be okay with PH as it caters to every playstyle, unlike some other maps that restrict a playstyle, mostly LRM's.
Maybe you should be asking for HPG to have the basement removed, or the upper area of Crimson Strait...

Lupis Volk, on 16 November 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

How to fix Polar Highlands? Simple....remove it. It's a badly designed map that supports a toxic gameplay, aka: leaving assaults behind and encouraging lurrmers.

Assaults get left behind on every map, and (according to some) PH supports a single weapon system that players might like to use? Oh no, remove it now!

Edited by Wolfways, 16 November 2017 - 06:32 PM.

[SeventhSL]

The6thMessenger, on 16 November 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

Why would we give way to what they want, if they are not going to give way what we want?

Honestly it is not a difficult concept.

Putting LRM cover on the only map in the game that doesn't have it, is not compromise. It is not respect for people who like the diversity it brings to the game. It is taking away the one single map left in the game like that, and making it just like all the others. It is complete and utter domination for people who want LRM cover on every single map.

Why should you give way? Because you already have your LRM cover on all but 1 map, Polar. But apparently just 1 map that doesn't suit your LRM cover needs and constrained diversity is to many for you? We are apparently only compromising and respectful if we do it your way.

Mate come on?

[The6thMessenger]

SeventhSL, on 16 November 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

Honestly it is not a difficult concept.

Yes, it's not.

SeventhSL, on 16 November 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

Putting LRM cover on the only map in the game that doesn't have it, is not compromise. It is not respect for people who like the diversity it brings to the game. It is taking away the one single map left in the game like that, and making it just like all the others. It is complete and utter domination for people who want LRM cover on every single map.

Again, look at the other people in the thread. They want Polar Highlands gone, "deleted", and i'm here trying to advocate for what would be the minimum change where we could both have something.

Like others? Really? Your dichotomous thinking is ridiculous, and i guess that's the problem. Other maps have clear walls, have clear cliffs, have deep trenches, as so much trees. What they differ is how MUCH of those are implemented. The metric we're looking at is LRM effectiveness, not whether it's just either there's no or there is hard cover. Hell that could also be a gradient than a dichotomy.

Don't you ******** us, with only little umbrellas scattered around a vast wide-open map, it will still be effective to LRM or snipe on the map, it will still be diverse enough as there will still be clear advantages for weapon systems, we're still shuffling for cover, that's why it's "compromise".

SeventhSL, on 16 November 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

Why should you give way? Because you already have your LRM cover on all but 1 map, Polar. But apparently just 1 map that doesn't suit your LRM cover needs and constrained diversity is to many for you? We are apparently only compromising and respectful if we do it your way.

Mate come on?

Don't you "come on" me. I would also advocate better LRM viability on other maps. That's not an enough reason to have maps have the victors almost decided at the start of the match.

You think other weapons have it good on other maps? Guess what, both hard-covers and soft-covers deter direct-fire. If anything, your idea of "diversity" is a silver-spoon. Because most other weapons could work fine on maps, but LRMs get a free pass for 1 map. The idea of you wanting "diversity" is laughable, so transparent, it's just a ploy for having your cake and eat it too.

You think the other maps are "built" for weapons ASIDE for LRMs? No, other weapons on other maps work just fine, it's the other way around; PH is "built" for LRMs just because it's poorly implemented. Don't you use this poor excuse of an argument: "Because you already have your LRM cover all but 1 map", ever again.

And again, way of others want the map deleted, or never come up in the first place. Which would your rather have?

Wolfways, on 16 November 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

So players have figured out how to choose their mech after seeing which map they're dropping on?
I very much doubt the types of mechs you're seeing vary depending on the map played.

Pretty sure they could pad their vote multiplier.

Wolfways, on 16 November 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

So you should be okay with PH as it caters to every playstyle, unlike some other maps that restrict a playstyle, mostly LRM's.
Maybe you should be asking for HPG to have the basement removed, or the upper area of Crimson Strait...

The issue is whether it caters too much, that's what you people aren't getting -- it's just either-it-works-or-it-doesn't than seeing it on a gradient.

You think i wouldn't advocate for adjusting for other maps too? I'd rather have the satellite on the HPG elevated and out of LRMs' way. The basement isn't really that serious, it's a bad place to be, it's restricting. It's not like we hole at there all the time.

Likewise, tunnel and the top-deck of crimson straight is pretty much compromising as well, it's basically like Obi-Wan Kenobi deal, people that have the high-ground has the upper-hand. I could advocate making Crimson-straight wider, and the top-deck a lot higher.

Now that you mention it, i'd like to have buildings capable of being reduced to rubble. That way, hard-cover could be turned soft-cover, and people wouldn't stay just on one cover for too long.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 November 2017 - 07:57 PM.

[Wolfways]

The6thMessenger, on 16 November 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

You think i wouldn't advocate for adjusting for other maps too?

But you haven't made a thread about changing other maps, only PH. How about making a thread including all the changes you would like to see to maps?

Also, others wanting the map removed means nothing. I don't like HPG Manifold or Rubellite Oasis but I'm not calling for them to be removed. There's compromise for you.

[The6thMessenger]

Wolfways, on 16 November 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

But you haven't made a thread about changing other maps, only PH. How about making a thread including all the changes you would like to see to maps?

Really? https://mwomercs.com...building-cover/

Even then, as if it's my responsibility to do so.

But okay sure, if i start a thread about modifying the HPG satellite, and adjusting the Crimson Strait, would you advocate for this change too? Cause i will expect the lot of you to hold your end of the god damn bargain.

Wolfways, on 16 November 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

Also, others wanting the map removed means nothing.

Yes, because you say it's nothing. Never mind the fact that there are different negative opinions on PH and how to handle them, and I chose the least extreme. And if you couldn't tell the difference, that's your own short coming.

Wolfways, on 16 November 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

I don't like HPG Manifold or Rubellite Oasis but I'm not calling for them to be removed. There's compromise for you.

Really? You couldn't bother looking up the meaning?

Quote

a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.

If you don't have a demand, how could you be able to compromise?

You might as well invoke "Watching TV", despite the key component; "TV" or "Eyes" missing.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 November 2017 - 11:16 PM.

[Wolfways]

The6thMessenger, on 16 November 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

Really? https://mwomercs.com...building-cover/

Even then, as if it's my responsibility to do so.

But okay sure, if i start a thread about modifying the HPG satellite, and adjusting the Crimson Strait, would you advocate for this change too? Cause i will expect the lot of you to hold your end of the god damn bargain.

That depends on the changes you were asking for. In HPG's case probably not because I hate it because it's tiny and has a big central feature that everyone just runs around. I don't see anything wrong with the dish itself.

Quote

Yes, because you say it's nothing. Never mind the fact that there are different negative opinions on PH and how to handle them, and I chose the least extreme. And if you couldn't tell the difference, that's your own short coming.



Really? You couldn't bother looking up the meaning?



If you don't have a demand, how could you be able to compromise?

You might as well invoke "Watching TV", despite the key component; "TV" or "Eyes" missing.

Actually I chose the least extreme. I really hate Rubellite and HPG, so my demand would be to have them removed from the game, never have them mentioned again on the forums (punishable by account deletion), [REDACTED].
But I know other players like those maps so my compromise is to not ask for them to be changed.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 17 November 2017 - 10:03 AM.
CoC violation removed

[The6thMessenger]

Wolfways, on 17 November 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

That depends on the changes you were asking for. In HPG's case probably not because I hate it because it's tiny and has a big central feature that everyone just runs around. I don't see anything wrong with the dish itself.

It is blocking a portion in the air. It's little, but so is a few umbrellas in PH.

Wolfways, on 17 November 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

Actually I chose the least extreme. I really hate Rubellite and HPG, so my demand would be to have them removed from the game, never have them mentioned again on the forums (punishable by account deletion),[REDACTED].

But I know other players like those maps so my compromise is to not ask for them to be changed.

Again. Not. Compromise.

You didn't meet people halfway. What is extreme is either having what they want completely, or what you want 100%. You gave way to what they want, 100% negative to what you want, it's extreme; a dichotomy "either what i want, or what they want".

What you are elaborating is contradictory to what is the definition of "compromise". You might as well ask a tripod with four legs, look for married bachelors, draw square-circles.

Is basic logic hard for you? I mean with how you argued with Paigan:

Spoiler

Paigan, on 14 November 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

Wolfways, on 14 November 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

Paigan, on 14 November 2017 - 06:48 AM, said:

Wolfways, on 14 November 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

What would be the point? I mean other than something for bad players to hide behind the whole match...

The beauty of the dish thing is that it is an excellent cover against LRMs, but a crappy cover against direct fire.
Try to "hide" behind a rather small dish socket all match and you're just dead.

So...it's pointless. There's no need for "excellent cover against LRM's". We already have ECM, AMS, teamwork, the masses of cover on nearly every map, and of course the fact that LRM's are incredibly weak.

It's not pointless.
As I wrote myself above: PH does not need to be "fixed" regarding LRMs. There is already cover, but (admittedly) a little slim. Some dishes would definitely be a nice addition, but still not be too much so people could easily hide behind it. Btw: most other maps actually DO provide lots of cover for people to hide behind. Are all other maps "pointless" in your opinion?
Your arguments give the impression that you are just against for the sake of being against it. Fear of change, wanting to feel superior or whatever.

Bottom line is: PH does not need the dishes to be "fixed", but they would be a nice addition to the admittedly slim terrain cover.

Epic pwnage right there.

Because we're not going to have progress if you're incapable of understanding the difference of giving way for people versus compromising with people, we won't get anywhere meaningful, we should just stop right here. I'm done.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 17 November 2017 - 10:04 AM.
Quote cleanup

[Paigan]

That was just staggering to read ...

Wolfways, on 17 November 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

I really hate Rubellite and HPG

Fair enough. Personal taste.

Wolfways, on 17 November 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

so my demand would be to have them removed from the game

understandable and valid personal demand (independant of if it would actually be heeded)

Wolfways, on 17 November 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

never have them mentioned again on the forums

A bit harsh, but also kind of funny

Wolfways, on 17 November 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

(punishable by account deletion)

Okay, also funny, but wait a second ...

Wolfways, on 17 November 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

[REDACTED]

Wolfways, on 17 November 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

[REDACTED]

If it was meant as comedy, then okay. Not funny, but okay.
If not, I question your mental sanity.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 17 November 2017 - 10:05 AM.
Quote cleanup. Agreed, not funny!

[Defender Rococo Rockfowl]

Polar is a fun map. And I don’t use LRMs.

Haters, just shut it

Or as Eminem might say, “would all the whiners please stand up, please stand up,please stand up!”

[Wolfways]

The6thMessenger, on 17 November 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

It is blocking a portion in the air. It's little, but so is a few umbrellas in PH.

Still so little a change that imo it's not worth it.

Quote

Again. Not. Compromise.

You didn't meet people halfway. What is extreme is either having what they want completely, or what you want 100%. You gave way to what they want, 100% negative to what you want, it's extreme; a dichotomy "either what i want, or what they want".

What you are elaborating is contradictory to what is the definition of "compromise". You might as well ask a tripod with four legs, look for married bachelors, draw square-circles.

Okay I'll explain what compromise means since you obviously don't know (and because you're being pedantic).

Compromise is when both parties make concessions. It doesn't have to mean 50/50.
In this case I accept that the maps I hate should stay because other players like them, and in return I get (hopefully) more players liking MWO meaning pgi get more money to improve MWO. I.e. we both benefit.

Quote

Is basic logic hard for you? I mean with how you argued with Paigan:

Spoiler

Epic pwnage right there.

Paigan wrote:
"The beauty of the dish thing is that it is an excellent cover against LRMs, but a crappy cover against direct fire.
Try to "hide" behind a rather small dish socket all match and you're just dead."
Immediately followed by:
"It's not pointless.
As I wrote myself above: PH does not need to be "fixed" regarding LRMs. There is already cover, but (admittedly) a little slim. Some dishes would definitely be a nice addition, but still not be too much so people could easily hide behind it. Btw: most other maps actually DO provide lots of cover for people to hide behind. Are all other maps "pointless" in your opinion?
Your arguments give the impression that you are just against for the sake of being against it. Fear of change, wanting to feel superior or whatever.

Bottom line is: PH does not need the dishes to be "fixed", but they would be a nice addition to the admittedly slim terrain cover."
So..."PH doesn't need LRM cover...but he wants more LRM cover."
Yeah...I was totally owned there...

Quote

Because we're not going to have progress if you're incapable of understanding the difference of giving way for people versus compromising with people, we won't get anywhere meaningful, we should just stop right here.

And you don't seem to be able to accept opinions that differ from yours.

Quote

I'm done.

If only it were true.

[Wolfways]

Paigan, on 17 November 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

If it was meant as comedy, then okay. Not funny, but okay.
If not, I question your mental sanity.

I question it daily. But of course I was joking.

Defender Rococo Rockfowl, on 17 November 2017 - 04:03 AM, said:

Polar is a fun map. And I don’t use LRMs.

Haters, just shut it

Or as Eminem might say, “would all the whiners please stand up, please stand up,please stand up!”

Swing and a miss!
I was just about to hit like...but then you mentioned Eminem

[Defender Rococo Rockfowl]

Wolfways, on 17 November 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

I question it daily. But of course I was joking.

Swing and a miss!
I was just about to hit like...but then you mentioned Eminem

Old guy’s mistake: we don’t have filters.

Still, I’ll have in a whiskey in your honor regardless