205 replies to this topic

[ESC 907]

SeventhSL, on 20 November 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

You can basically rate a maps popularity by the skill required to play it.

Hot maps require more heat management skill then cold.
Large maps require more patients and positioning skill then small.
Long range maps require more accuracy then short.
Sparsely covered maps require more pre planning and awarness then heavily covered ones.

You get a map like Polar that ticks most of the "requires more skill" checkboxes and people flip out. They are happy to bring an optimised brawl build, that will eat long range builds alive on most maps, but you dare not have a map where the shoe is on the other foot.

Haters are going to hate anything that doesn't suit them regardless of how much others like it.

Now THIS sounds like BS to me. Just because there's more cover in one map, doesn't mean it takes less skill. If anything, I believe Polar Highlands would take the least amount of skill relative to any other. Each map is going to be situational. It's just kind of sad that there's not more maps that are closed-in urban scenarios. It's what I really loved about the old Frozen Shity. It was cold, but it was close & personal when it came to engaging.

Personally, as more of a light pilot, I wish there were more congested, urban maps. Kind of like the SW section of River City. Such a map would likely require more situational awareness. It would also make a nice niche for the SRM-vomit Jenners, and prove detrimental to the current Laser-vomit meta.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Personally, as more of a light pilot, I wish there were more congested, urban maps. Kind of like the SW section of River City. Such a map would likely require more situational awareness. It would also make a nice niche for the SRM-vomit Jenners, and prove detrimental to the current Laser-vomit meta.

I just love maps where weapons with a deadzone or minrange damage loss become almost automatically gimped due to overwhelming amounts of cover.

[Wolfways]

ESC 907, on 21 November 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

It's just kind of sad that there's not more maps that are closed-in urban scenarios

Yeah...let's have a look at those maps (I won't include FW maps because I can't really remember them as FW is pretty much dead) from my experiences.

Alpine Peaks - Long, open sight lines with sparse cover and an annoying big hill in the center. Most matches are long to medium ranges finishing with brawling.

Canyon Network - Long, open sight lines with many trenches to move around in. Most matches involve long to medium fire quickly followed by brawling.

Caustic Valley - Everyone hugs the crater so there is little opportunity for long range fire. Mostly short to medium range used. Always ends in a brawl.

Crimson Strait - Every fight happens in the city parts, the tunnel, or under the platform. Little to no long ranged combat, some medium, mostly short. Almost always a brawl.

Forest Colony - All short to Medium range because where all the fighting happens there is loads of cover. Pretty much nothing but brawling.

Frozen City - Used to be nothing but short range brawling in the city areas, now longer ranges are also viable. Still ends in a brawl.

Grim Plexus - All weapon ranges viable. A pretty balanced map I'd say. (Looks like crap though)

HPG Manifold - All short and medium range. The only long range is the occasional light sitting on the outside wall with LL's. Other than that the whole match is a brawl.

Polar Highlands - While all ranges are viable it is a little harder to get into short ranged combat, until about half way through a match where it turns into brawling.

River City - All combat takes place either around the citadel or the city areas. Pretty much all ranges are viable, but again it always turns into a brawl near the end.

Terra Therma - Tbh I haven't seen enough of the new map to give an opinion, but the little I have seen seems much better than the old "push into the center and brawl" map.

Mining Collective - Short range players wet dream. Enough said.

Tourmaline Desert - Pretty much the same as Polar Highlands but with more LRM cover.

Viridian Bog - See Mining Collective above.

I know players have differing opinions on what constitutes short, medium, and long ranges but this is how I see the game. There's also ERrange consisting of the longest ranges of weapons like ERLL's, Gauss (and LRM's supposedly) but it's so infrequent and does so little damage that it might as well not exist.

Edited by Wolfways, 21 November 2017 - 02:49 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

ESC 907, on 21 November 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

Now THIS sounds like BS to me. Just because there's more cover in one map, doesn't mean it takes less skill. If anything, I believe Polar Highlands would take the least amount of skill relative to any other. Each map is going to be situational. It's just kind of sad that there's not more maps that are closed-in urban scenarios. It's what I really loved about the old Frozen Shity. It was cold, but it was close & personal when it came to engaging.

True. I mean, if there weren't any LRMs in PH, it's a total meh for me and a lot of other players. Snipers be damned, it's not like we can't move along trenches and just close the gaps.

ESC 907, on 21 November 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

Personally, as more of a light pilot, I wish there were more congested, urban maps. Kind of like the SW section of River City. Such a map would likely require more situational awareness. It would also make a nice niche for the SRM-vomit Jenners, and prove detrimental to the current Laser-vomit meta.

I honestly don't like that, it's too cramped.

[SeventhSL]

ESC 907, on 21 November 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

Now THIS sounds like BS to me. Just because there's more cover in one map, doesn't mean it takes less skill. If anything, I believe Polar Highlands would take the least amount of skill relative to any other.

In real life, or other games, I'd agree. Unfortunately in MWO, heavy urban areas are much easier to fight on than an open map like Polar.

1. The easy availability of hard cover basically negates having to worry about lock based weapons (LRM, ATM, SSRM) at all. Especially as a light. You just do your thing and you'll be breaking LOS so much that missiles aren't an issue.

2. Against direct fire weapons, there is always cover near at hand, or available with minimum movement. Just place it between you and the enemy. This is especially the case for flankers. You can be flanked from 500m on Polar and if you haven't been pre- planning the run to suitable cover is death.

3. Urban maps make it easy to avoid the enemy death ball. If you get caught out of position, you can just duck behind the closest building and wait for the death ball to pass by. You can't do that on more open maps like Polar. there is nowhere you can go quick enough.

4. You can literally alpha strike an enemy and then run rings around a building and cool off while he is chasing you. High alpha low DPS builds can't do that on Polar.

5. Got no back armor and a more agile enemy trying to exploit that? Just put your back up against a building. Now where is cover you can do that with on Polar? It exists but it is on the extremities and a long long run from where the main fighting normally is.

6. Running an ECM light around in the midst of an enemy team is oh so much easier with buildings everywhere. Duck in an out no problem. Break contact at will. again no so easy on Polar, especially breaking contact without losing a leg.

7. My 6 year old son can drop most of his alpha into my CT at close range because my CT is so much bigger at close range. He can't do that on Polar because my CT is a much smaller target and it takes far more skill to hit it.

I could go on and on but to sum up, urban cover in MWO is very forgiving. As the name implies, it covers a multitude of player errors. When you don't have it, MWO is a much harder game to play.

If nothing else MWO has seismic sensor. A virtual wall hack and crutch for close range urban environments.

Of course non of this means we should not have cool urban maps. We absolutely should because they do provide a different gaming experience. Just not every single map.

Edited by SeventhSL, 22 November 2017 - 01:11 AM.

[Baba Yogi]

Only fix Polar Highlands needs is a fix for those annoying hitboxes. PH will bait you to fire upon the enemy by showing him, then suddenly, he's under cover which you discover when you zoom in.