205 replies to this topic

[Vonbach]

Nightmare1, on 18 November 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

My idea to "fix" PH would be to remove it entirely.

Obviously, that's not going to happen though.

It would be nice to see this abortion gotten rid of but the LRMers and snipers would scream like stuck pigs.
Every match is the same poke snipe and lrm hell while anyone else gets to sit and wait for 12 minutes or so
until someone gets sick of it and charges.Or tries to go through the trenches. Then you finally get to shoot someone.
Its a boring crap map.

[Nightmare1]

Vonbach, on 18 November 2017 - 05:52 AM, said:

It would be nice to see this abortion gotten rid of but the LRMers and snipers would scream like stuck pigs.
Every match is the same poke snipe and lrm hell while anyone else gets to sit and wait for 12 minutes or so
until someone gets sick of it and charges.Or tries to go through the trenches. Then you finally get to shoot someone.
Its a boring crap map.

Yep. It's basically just blatant pandering to the long-range players. It's also PGI's excuse not to fix LRMs. "We know they're bad, but hey, there's an LRM map that makes it alright!"

[Vonbach]

Nightmare1, on 18 November 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

Yep. It's basically just blatant pandering to the long-range players. It's also PGI's excuse not to fix LRMs. "We know they're bad, but hey, there's an LRM map that makes it alright!"

Its also just plain boring to play. You spend most of the match getting into position then waiting.

[Nightmare1]

Vonbach, on 18 November 2017 - 06:06 AM, said:

Its also just plain boring to play. You spend most of the match getting into position then waiting.

Exactly!

Even the new Rubellite map, as much as I like it, is another long-range fest. I can see where, pretty soon, both teams will do the same thing that they do on Frozen where they just pick the high points on opposite sides of the map and then trade.

I am looking forward to the dense city map that PGI is supposed to be developing though. If we can get a map that's dedicated to brawlers, then I will be able to forgive PGI for pandering to the long-range players so much.

[Vonbach]

Nightmare1, on 18 November 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

Exactly!

Even the new Rubellite map, as much as I like it, is another long-range fest. I can see where, pretty soon, both teams will do the same thing that they do on Frozen where they just pick the high points on opposite sides of the map and then trade.

I am looking forward to the dense city map that PGI is supposed to be developing though. If we can get a map that's dedicated to brawlers, then I will be able to forgive PGI for pandering to the long-range players so much.

With RO you can run to the basement or get around them far easier. Its a much better map.

Edited by Vonbach, 18 November 2017 - 06:37 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Vonbach, on 18 November 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

With RO you can run to the basement or get around them far easier. Its a much better map.

I definitely agree! I just see people trying to play the range game and ignoring the hidden routes.

That being said, since it's a hot map, we'll never see it since all anyone ever picks are the cold ones.

[Xavori]

Nightmare1, on 18 November 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

Exactly!

Even the new Rubellite map, as much as I like it, is another long-range fest. I can see where, pretty soon, both teams will do the same thing that they do on Frozen where they just pick the high points on opposite sides of the map and then trade.

I am looking forward to the dense city map that PGI is supposed to be developing though. If we can get a map that's dedicated to brawlers, then I will be able to forgive PGI for pandering to the long-range players so much.

You can't get away with that on RO because there are a bazillion ways to get across the map without ever exposing yourself to the shooters on the edge-high ground.

You also can't get away with that on Polar Highlands except that invariably everyone is so terrified of being the guy who gets plowed under during the push that nobody pushes. When you're on a team that realizes the other side is long range poking and LRM's and decides to rush them, it almost always goes well.

Maybe if Assaults actually had enough armor to assault....

[Wolfways]

Requiemking, on 17 November 2017 - 09:39 PM, said:

Well, I suggested a while back that Polar should get some underground tunnels running through it. Granted, this was back when the pepsi-goose bear was the strongest mech in game, but it still applies here.

If there were tunnels 90%+ of players would never use the surface, making LRM's and long ranged weapons useless.
Now if there was a giant cave system, with the ceiling being high enough for LRM's to be of use, that would be fine...or even better, make another map!

[Wolfways]

Kroete, on 18 November 2017 - 02:59 AM, said:

Lrms work also on other maps well, if you know how to use them.
Some are easiert, like polar, alpine, turmalin and caustic, some are ok like crimson, mining or bog, some are worse like hpg and the new one.

Spot on imo.

[Wolfways]

Kroete, on 18 November 2017 - 03:24 AM, said:

You may be right if we talk about the 900m all the missiles guy,
but if you would use them at 200-400 meters and move its another game,
thats why i ask you to play a little more with lrms if you want to talk about them.

That's why LRM's desperately need buffed. They're supposed to be long ranged, but the only person who dies from LRM's coming from 900m+ away is an incredibly bad player, so they are only viable at mid range.

[Wolfways]

Vonbach, on 18 November 2017 - 05:52 AM, said:

It would be nice to see this abortion gotten rid of but the LRMers and snipers would scream like stuck pigs.
Every match is the same poke snipe and lrm hell while anyone else gets to sit and wait for 12 minutes or so
until someone gets sick of it and charges.Or tries to go through the trenches. Then you finally get to shoot someone.
Its a boring crap map.

Why isn't your own team in the trenches from the beginning? If you're in a short range mech you can do exactly the same as the snipers, just at a shorter range.

Nightmare1, on 18 November 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

Yep. It's basically just blatant pandering to the long-range players.

So nearly every other map is blatant pandering to brawlers?

Quote

It's also PGI's excuse not to fix LRMs. "We know they're bad, but hey, there's an LRM map that makes it alright!"

Now that I can agree with.

Nightmare1, on 18 November 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

Even the new Rubellite map, as much as I like it, is another long-range fest.

[B0oN]

How to fix Polar Highlands ?
Easy

Fix players .
Done .

Map is actually quite good, too many players aren´t .

[The6thMessenger]

PFC Carsten, on 18 November 2017 - 05:11 AM, said:

To brag about statistics and how one ranks better than someone else on some leaderboard does not help moving the topic forward, btw.

Hey, he was the one playing Ad Hominem from the start. I can assure you, we wouldn't have been toxic if he wasn't out to smear me from the start.

Galenit, on 18 November 2017 - 04:32 AM, said:

Ok, you admit that you only know the basic skills for lrms,
thats why i say play more with them if you want to talk about them.

PS: This is kroetes is-account.

Intermediate, not basic, nor expert.

Kroete, on 18 November 2017 - 04:54 AM, said:

I don't like it, but if you want we can compare our played matches to see who has more "experience":
2406+1972+1846+1697 = 50% more then your played matches.

Edit:
I missed the archived stats of my is account:
Thats another 3339 wins and 3638 lose.
Together around 3 times the matches you have played ...

Okay sure, I will grant you that, despite little reference to back that up.

Kroete, on 18 November 2017 - 05:24 AM, said:

They make the discussions and forum more toxic, thats why i only enable my tier-showing if someone comes with that. And braging i do only if someone trys to validate their opinion with stats who say nothing about the topic.

Kroete, on 18 November 2017 - 04:54 AM, said:

Do you realy want to play the number game?

Hey, you're the one playing Ad Hominem in the start. If you don't want things getting toxic, if you don't want people getting into stats which say nothing about the topic, stop being a **** by using Ad Hominem, and keep with the topic.

Spoiler

Kroete, on 18 November 2017 - 01:53 AM, said:

If you can use lrms in crimson only 10% you still dont know anything about lrms.
If you think lrms work to 95% in polar, you need to learn a lot about lrm-countering,
no wonder that you want to nerf lrms and maps with low cover.

Play a little more with lrms if you want to talk about them without looking stupid or like a crybaby.
Didnt you remember our discussion about your "lrm-balancing"?

That's how you started, Ad Hominem while taking things out of context. Hell, the rest of your responses are mostly about the person being the subject, instead of being objective and tackle the argument at hand. You haven't even responded to the scenarios I told you about the Alpine - like where combat usually happens.

I don't like throwing stats either, really i don't. But if you don't want any discussion going down that path eventually and being toxic, stop with the Ad Hominem. Because I can assure you, this wouldn't have happened if you were keeping to the topic at hand instead of smearing other people.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 18 November 2017 - 04:09 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Wolfways, on 18 November 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

So nearly every other map is blatant pandering to brawlers?

I never said that.

[Vonbach]

Wolfways, on 18 November 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

If there were tunnels 90%+ of players would never use the surface, making LRM's and long ranged weapons useless.

Good now we're getting somewhere.

[Khobai]

unfortunately theres no easy way to fix LRMs...

unless PGI addresses the fact that rocks and trees and buildings are invincible by making them destructible

because having invincible cover is the whole reason LRMs are so bad

PGI needs to redo all their maps and make it so we can blow more !@#$ up. pretty much anything that sticks up out of the ground should be destructible.

It would be a lot of work but it would greatly improve the game and help curb the poke meta and lrms would be useful then too.

Maps like polar could even have more cover then, but it would be destructible cover.

Edited by Khobai, 18 November 2017 - 05:24 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 18 November 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

unfortunately theres no easy way to fix LRMs...

unless PGI addresses the fact that rocks and trees and buildings are invincible by making them destructible

because having invincible cover is the whole reason LRMs are so bad

PGI needs to redo all their maps and make it so we can blow more !@#$ up. pretty much anything that sticks up out of the ground should be destructible.

It would be a lot of work but it would greatly improve the game and help curb the poke meta and lrms would be useful then too.

Maps like polar could even have more cover then, but it would be destructible cover.

Also, until they balance it at the proper skill level, not because entry-level gets murdered.

[Wolfways]

Nightmare1, on 18 November 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

I never said that.

You complain about PH saying you would want it removed and:

Nightmare1, on 18 November 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

Yep. It's basically just blatant pandering to the long-range players.

Seeing that PH is the only map you're complaining about it seems that you're fine with maps that limit long range and LRM's. Just like PH, every map limits a playstyle in some way, some more than others, but LRM's are the most limited weapon type by far with so much hard cover on the majority of maps and terrible weapon design on pgi's part that only bad players complain about LRM's while better players very rarely get killed by them.

[Nightmare1]

Wolfways, on 18 November 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

You complain about PH saying you would want it removed and:

Seeing that PH is the only map you're complaining about it seems that you're fine with maps that limit long range and LRM's. Just like PH, every map limits a playstyle in some way, some more than others, but LRM's are the most limited weapon type by far with so much hard cover on the majority of maps and terrible weapon design on pgi's part that only bad players complain about LRM's while better players very rarely get killed by them.

Well, that explains a lot - you missed my point entirely. My post wasn't ever just about LRMs.

[Wolfways]

Khobai, on 18 November 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

unfortunately theres no easy way to fix LRMs...

unless PGI addresses the fact that rocks and trees and buildings are invincible by making them destructible

because having invincible cover is the whole reason LRMs are so bad

PGI needs to redo all their maps and make it so we can blow more !@#$ up. pretty much anything that sticks up out of the ground should be destructible.

It would be a lot of work but it would greatly improve the game and help curb the poke meta and lrms would be useful then too.

Maps like polar could even have more cover then, but it would be destructible cover.

Well there is an easy fix but not one that pgi will consider.
LRM's work fine in MWLL and there's no destructible terrain. The reason they work is that the maps are big battlefields, and that LRM's are F&F so the firing mech doesn't have to decide between getting shot to pieces and hit the target or defend himself and waste the shot and ammo.
Pgi made MWO a small, arena style shooter where LRM's have no real place.

I don't completely blame pgi though.
It doesn't help that they make a big map and the forums explode with "but I don't want to have to walk somewhere", and they nerf weapons because "I got killed by X, please pgi nerf it".

LRM's are supposed to be long range but never will be because of the amount of cover on the small maps, and they will continue to be used at under about half of their supposed range.