133 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

buryingbeetle, on 01 December 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

I understand the idea of "Faction Play" being for serious players. However I think that scout mode should be for pugs. When I play a scout mission and I see a major team vs pugs... I think its a little unfair at the least.

If you want Invasion mode to be serious... fine. But don't limit people who just want some fun to only quickdrops.

Without reading any replies I bet a load of nubs essentially saying, "TEAM game" "git gud" and "go away pug". It's so predictable because at least 1 pug out of the 100s who get burnt by the mode every week come on here to make a complaint thread. Which gets the same dumb responces every time. "It's a TEAM game, that's got loads of solo noob green lrm STK Tier 4s playing in matches" "It's the most competetive mode in MWO, where it's badly designed to match pugs vs groups, has no MMing or ranking system" and other such gems.

Of course you are correct it is unfair. The mode is basically for farming pugs right out of the mode if not the game. There is no MMing and solo player churn is only there to help keep some semblance of population for a tiny fraction of the player base to farm then pat each other on the back and call themselves competitive while playing the least competitive mode in the game.

imo Groups and solo need to be split or just remove solos entirely. In the reality of it as it stands you can either don't play or group.

[The Basilisk]

Wolfways, on 03 December 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

What a moronic thing to say. There are reasons people don't play in groups you know.


There is a solo queue in FW? Great, where is it?!

Uhm no as I said ... FW is for groups only designed. It even warns you not to go there as singleplayer if you are not ready to get your bum handed to you. If you can not stand this so not go there...stay in solo QP.
Or get a unit and train.

Edited by The Basilisk, 04 December 2017 - 01:20 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Ghogiel, on 03 December 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

[..]

Of course you are correct it is unfair. The mode is basically for farming pugs right out of the mode if not the game. There is no MMing and solo player churn is only there to help keep some semblance of population for a tiny fraction of the player base to farm then pat each other on the back and call themselves competitive while playing the least competitive mode in the game.
[...]

Sorry to correct you there.
Faction Warfare was never meant to be played solo.
Solo players shouldn't be there.
Not at all.
Only reason they got admitted there where the "I do not want to sozialize but I want the goodys from FactionWarfare" faction howling and screeming to high heaven.

Also this happend while the majority of the players in FW (formerly CW) where groups and units that formed in closed beta and open beta before the implementation of Faction Warfare.

Then the very same ppl as before whined because they got their tail shot of and therefore got a solo pug queue appart from pug queue implemented only for them.

They still howled because they wanted still a solo pug area to be able to farm FW goodies and win ... pgi wasted further time and implemented scouting mode.

And at this time the exodus of the larger groups and majority of the more serious players began.....it was covered up a bit through the steam launch of MWO but....well still no real content for the longterm players and larger groups only cosmetics stuff to draw mayfly casuals....there goes the playerbase.

And now ?
Guess what ?
Soloplayers are still crying.

But never mind...most of the bigger Units died long ago....the rest will die of eventually...sadly you will have nobody to play with or cry about then.

Edited by The Basilisk, 04 December 2017 - 01:39 AM.

[Wolfways]

The Basilisk, on 04 December 2017 - 01:20 AM, said:

Uhm no as I said ... FW is for groups only designed. It even warns you not to go there as singleplayer if you are not ready to get your bum handed to you. If you can not stand this so not go there...stay in solo QP.
Or get a unit and train.

Exactly. Pgi screwed up and stopped many players from playing their own game. Pushing players away is obviously a great way to make money...

[TWIAFU]

Wolfways, on 03 December 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

Pugs will always join FW if allowed to. FW is supposed to be the main game. Not allowing pugs to play the game is the same as telling them to uninstall, which is obviously not good for the game.

Then PUGs should heed the warning message then and not just click "OK".

Otherwise, sure, let solo PUGs drop in 4 Trials. Sure, let them drop with non mastered Mechs. Sure, let them install the game and go right to CW. Sure, that is good for pugs and the game.

Since PUGS are not smart enough to read and comprehend what they read in the warning, QP tactics lowered PUG IQ to the point where they can only do peek a boo, they should not be allowed into CW until ready.

Nice to see your false equivalency. If PUGs cannot play CW right away then they should uninstall.

What a crock of SH*T! You take debate classed from Trump University?

No, that is not what anyone is saying, they should uninstall if they cannot play CW, MWO end game, right away. They should not be playing end game until they are ready, like they are warned.

Don't get it? Maybe go to WoW forums and start complaining that some F2P fresh install cannot go right into the top end game raid and win. Those replies will give you a clue.

[Ghogiel]

The Basilisk, on 04 December 2017 - 01:37 AM, said:

Sorry to correct you there.
Faction Warfare was never meant to be played solo.
Solo players shouldn't be there.
Not at all.

Not sure how you are correcting me as I literally said that solos should be removed entirely.

[Fuerchtenichts]

Wolfways, on 04 December 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

...several postings in this thread...

Sometimes communication is really hard for different minded people. We all use words and phrases based on our own personal experiences and beliefs. So, although we use the same language we do not understand each other. In such cases, it is sometimes useful to quote phrases from one another to gain a common understanding.


I took my inspiration from your signature and would like to tell you,

"I like organized group action in FP. Deal with it!"

[McGoat]

I cannot understand why anyone would want to play FP/CW without being on a team.. The very name suggest some form of team play (not just picking up with randos) is to be expected. At the core of it it is based around factions/clans and the teams representing them *gasp*.
When you click that button right next to quick play what are you expecting? Moar nascaring? Moar lrm/flamer builds? If you're not expecting to play against, and with, people working together then you can't be helped. I'm not being a **** about it either - i'm not even telling you to "git gud". Join a ******* team, learn to work together (even R79T wins sometimes), and play the game as intended; stop asking for it to be catered to your needs. Remember that button right next to the FP one? That's where the daisys can go who don't want to play on a team, with a team, against teams.

Edited by McGoat, 04 December 2017 - 09:39 AM.

[naterist]

doeth we be-ist talking abouteth the pug stoomping?


im so excited, im so excited to be having this conversation again.

[MischiefSC]

Ghogiel, on 03 December 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

Of course you are correct it is unfair. The mode is basically for farming pugs right out of the mode if not the game. There is no MMing and solo player churn is only there to help keep some semblance of population for a tiny fraction of the player base to farm then pat each other on the back and call themselves competitive while playing the least competitive mode in the game.

That's odd because everyone in the mode has pugged, most were originally pugs and for the first 2.5 years of the 3.25 years it's been going it was populated almost completely with units and unit players - again, most of us originally pugged all the time (back before 1 bukkit). The games original design had 0 pugging but we begged to be allowed to pug and so it was allowed but with the warning when you entered.

The mode is and was always for playing as a group, just that you can actually play as a group without being in a premade. That's sorta turned into lostech at this point so maybe removing pugging from FW is an option but every time we bring that up we get some dedicated pugs who show up and say 'don't do that, I like pugging in FW'. I'm good either way.

FW was a much larger segment and is still a larger segment than, say, comp queue and likely group queue (anymore I get longer waits for group queue) but that population decline wasn't due to a lack of a matchmaker but a lack of the originally promised depth and purpose.

[naterist]

MischiefSC, on 04 December 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

That's odd because everyone in the mode has pugged, most were originally pugs and for the first 2.5 years of the 3.25 years it's been going it was populated almost completely with units and unit players - again, most of us originally pugged all the time (back before 1 bukkit). The games original design had 0 pugging but we begged to be allowed to pug and so it was allowed but with the warning when you entered.

The mode is and was always for playing as a group, just that you can actually play as a group without being in a premade. That's sorta turned into lostech at this point so maybe removing pugging from FW is an option but every time we bring that up we get some dedicated pugs who show up and say 'don't do that, I like pugging in FW'. I'm good either way.

FW was a much larger segment and is still a larger segment than, say, comp queue and likely group queue (anymore I get longer waits for group queue) but that population decline wasn't due to a lack of a matchmaker but a lack of the originally promised depth and purpose.

ya, remove pugging in fw, it isnt a good way for this mode to grow. let scouting keep pugging though, its a good taste of fw and lets people unwilling to find a team still feel like they are contributing to their faction.

[Neil Diamond]

naterist, on 04 December 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

ya, remove pugging in fw, it isnt a good way for this mode to grow. let scouting keep pugging though, its a good taste of fw and lets people unwilling to find a team still feel like they are contributing to their faction.

Why? I am fresh off a solid 5 month break from this game. I would often drop solo in the Faction Play and never had an issue with any facet of it. If I get on a team with a 'heavy load of misc. faction/unit'? Since I am far from shy, I use my mic and ask if I can hop on their TS. Most of them say 'Sure', while the rest don't even bother responding, even in text. Guess which one of those two won more games? However, I will never fail to disappoint regardless of the team. But if some aren't willing to communicate in game? You're already down before the match even began. But egos are a fickle beast at times.

Nateist, Scouting is easy mode, because certain builds help the process along. For me personally? There is little fun in that. So I enjoy the tactical sense of FW, much more than the borish Scouting aspect of the game.

The bottom line is that if most of the players who post in here, actually came in here with an honest attitude that they show in game? This game would be much better off. Especially with the like minded folks of SirSoggyDog. The irony of it all is how many other Units are willing to communicate IN GAME on a consistent basis? Let alone say: "Hey, if you're new or don't need smartass answers to your questions? Come in here. We'll help you, which will help us create a better game." Because from just my experience, not many will do it. However, before some get their panties in a bunch, I have been away since July. So am I to surmise that some of the larger Units have mainly moved on to other games, leaving remnants? Someone mentioned HHoD.

Look, I am not the best, nor am I the worst. I play any game for fun and the true fun for me? Would be helping the new folks, even in quick play. My damage is fairly consistent and assists the team. Sure, I'll switch into a mech and drop an egg here or there. But I won't get pissed, blame someone or something else. If someone barks out an absolutely, idiotic order in QP? I will kindly ignore it and continue to keep my mech in the game and assist those near me. Typically, someone else will verify the idiotic order over in-game. I'm playing this game for fun and am going to start dropping in FW again soon. Yes, I will be dropping solo, since barely anyone from my Unit plays this game anymore.

[MischiefSC]

naterist, on 04 December 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

ya, remove pugging in fw, it isnt a good way for this mode to grow. let scouting keep pugging though, its a good taste of fw and lets people unwilling to find a team still feel like they are contributing to their faction.

As the post below you shows, some people want to pug. What really confuses me I admit is the people who say 'pugging is terrible in FW and it shouldn't be allowed' and then... go pug in FW. Either group up or quit if that's your opinion.

I have a couple of alts I play at times and I pug in FW. Even against units the only reason you have trouble is your fellow pugs all want to play it like it's QP. It's not a skill gap, not in terms of trigger pulling, it's a coordination gap - which isn't a byproduct of Teamspeak or Discord but people being willing to just ******* coordinate.

That I don't have a fix for.

[Neil Diamond]

MischiefSC, on 04 December 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

As the post below you shows, some people want to pug. What really confuses me I admit is the people who say 'pugging is terrible in FW and it shouldn't be allowed' and then... go pug in FW. Either group up or quit if that's your opinion.

I have a couple of alts I play at times and I pug in FW. Even against units the only reason you have trouble is your fellow pugs all want to play it like it's QP. It's not a skill gap, not in terms of trigger pulling, it's a coordination gap - which isn't a byproduct of Teamspeak or Discord but people being willing to just ******* coordinate.

That I don't have a fix for.

Actually, I will probably be looking to join a Unit. In the past, my Unit would be Top 5 in Marik (LMAO) in the 1st or 2nd Turkyid Event (spelling?) with a mere 18-20 participants. I just would end soloing after a while because the rest would lose interest or what have you. But, I communicate. If I feel like the team don't want to coordinate, I will use common sense and place myself in the best spot for the sake of the team. If it is covering a 6? Done. Increasing the field of fire? Done. Trading armor, even if in a light mech, to keep a heavier mech in the fight, at that particular time? Done.

I'm far from Sierra Hotel, but I just have a very good tactical sense. it is almost like some expect to drop and the build will win? They are wrong. Communication and coordination are paramount.

Good post though Mischief. <<S>>

[General Solo]

Ghogiel, on 03 December 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

...................... imo Groups and solo need to be split.......

I agree
the solo one being called "Garrison VS Militia" would be cool.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 04 December 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

That's odd because everyone in the mode has pugged, most were originally pugs and for the first 2.5 years of the 3.25 years it's been going it was populated almost completely with units and unit players - again, most of us originally pugged all the time (back before 1 bukkit). The games original design had 0 pugging but we begged to be allowed to pug and so it was allowed but with the warning when you entered.

The mode is and was always for playing as a group, just that you can actually play as a group without being in a premade. That's sorta turned into lostech at this point so maybe removing pugging from FW is an option but every time we bring that up we get some dedicated pugs who show up and say 'don't do that, I like pugging in FW'. I'm good either way.

FW was a much larger segment and is still a larger segment than, say, comp queue and likely group queue (anymore I get longer waits for group queue) but that population decline wasn't due to a lack of a matchmaker but a lack of the originally promised depth and purpose.

Besides talking about things that PGI is not able or unwilling to implement (aka Lostech), forcing solos to find people to group up with (aka improving the LFG system, also Lostech) would have probably provided a better desired result, even with the occasional gripe. Inducing a bonus to accomplish that would be a cherry ontop of this sundae (incentive for groups to get as many people as possible), but at this point there will always be a PUG that will take a dump on the concept of "group play".

Edited by Deathlike, 04 December 2017 - 04:17 PM.

[Wolfways]

TWIAFU, on 04 December 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

Then PUGs should heed the warning message then and not just click "OK".

Otherwise, sure, let solo PUGs drop in 4 Trials. Sure, let them drop with non mastered Mechs. Sure, let them install the game and go right to CW. Sure, that is good for pugs and the game.

Since PUGS are not smart enough to read and comprehend what they read in the warning, QP tactics lowered PUG IQ to the point where they can only do peek a boo, they should not be allowed into CW until ready.

Nice to see your false equivalency. If PUGs cannot play CW right away then they should uninstall.

What a crock of SH*T! You take debate classed from Trump University?

No, that is not what anyone is saying, they should uninstall if they cannot play CW, MWO end game, right away. They should not be playing end game until they are ready, like they are warned.

Don't get it? Maybe go to WoW forums and start complaining that some F2P fresh install cannot go right into the top end game raid and win. Those replies will give you a clue.

There is no endgame in MWO.
There is the only/dead game (FW, you know, the bit that pgi promised was "the game"), and there is a 15 minute knockabout beta leftover (QP).

Also, you cannot compare MWO with an MMO. WoT maybe...

Fuerchtenichts, on 04 December 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Sometimes communication is really hard for different minded people. We all use words and phrases based on our own personal experiences and beliefs. So, although we use the same language we do not understand each other. In such cases, it is sometimes useful to quote phrases from one another to gain a common understanding.


I took my inspiration from your signature and would like to tell you,

"I like organized group action in FP. Deal with it!"

Nothing wrong with that and no-one is asking you to stop having it.

[naterist]

Force the split aue, or make it group only, not because i think its best and everyone whos saying they pug for fun is stupid, but so we can move past this issue and focus on the important **** fw needs revamped. Eliminate this arguement, and we can unfock the modes other problems. These types of arguements will literally never ******* end otherwise.

[Wolfways]

naterist, on 04 December 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

Force the split aue, or make it group only, not because i think its best and everyone whos saying they pug for fun is stupid, but so we can move past this issue and focus on the important **** fw needs revamped. Eliminate this arguement, and we can unfock the modes other problems. These types of arguements will literally never ******* end otherwise.

Does it really matter what we're discussing? I mean, it's not like what we say on the forums has any impact on the game.

[Neil Diamond]

naterist, on 04 December 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

Force the split aue, or make it group only, not because i think its best and everyone whos saying they pug for fun is stupid, but so we can move past this issue and focus on the important **** fw needs revamped. Eliminate this arguement, and we can unfock the modes other problems. These types of arguements will literally never ******* end otherwise.

The only one arguing is yourself. For me there is no argument. With that being said, you are an irrational person, who has done nothing but present irrational ideas. The irony of calling other people 'stupid' is very delicious.

You continue Scouting and have fun. You don't speak for me or anyone else. Just like I have addressed my observations, without painting with a broad brush. If you feel strongly about it, email PGI and present them with your ideas. I'm sure they'll drop what they are doing and address your issue immediately.

Wolfways, on 04 December 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

Does it really matter what we're discussing? I mean, it's not like what we say on the forums has any impact on the game.

No it doesn't matter to people like him. They want things done their way, even if it makes no sense. You cannot be reasonable with people like him, because they are unreasonable to begin with.