160 replies to this topic

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 31 December 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

Because QP is really, really easy to win in by just calling the drop or listening if someone else does. 2 out of 3 matches, give or take.

A challenge to you to back up this statement, lets you and I group up and drop in 10-20 matches in QP, you can call the drops, you are after all very experienced, and we will document, even twitch them, lets see how this statement holds up for you.
You up for it?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

N0MAD, on 31 December 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

A challenge to you to back up this statement, lets you and I group up and drop in 10-20 matches in QP, you can call the drops, you are after all very experienced, and we will document, even twitch them, lets see how this statement holds up for you.
You up for it?

How are you guys going to group up and drop in QP? If you group up you have to be in the group queue.

[McHoshi]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

virtually every other multiplayer game separates premade groups from pugs for a reason.

even quickplay separates groups and pugs.

because it is abusive



its not just better teamwork. premades can filter out bad players too.

by only inviting known good players, premades gain a significant skill advantage over pugs.

the fact is, seal clubbing should not exist. FP should have separate buckets for pugs and premades.

if premades dont like the longer wait times and the fact they cant sealclub, too bad for them.

blablabla ... FP was never designed for Pugs.

Stop pugging into FP and your Problem is solved! So easy and btw. it is so damn easy to build a group.
Just ninja invite some ppl out of youir friendlist - get on some TS and - then have fun. ^^

Edited by McHoshi, 31 December 2017 - 09:33 PM.

[N0MAD]

Dakota1000, on 31 December 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

How are you guys going to group up and drop in QP? If you group up you have to be in the group queue.

True story, badly worded, group up i actually meant meet on a TS and spend the time together while he plays his games, i play mine, we may actually meet in some games as opponents or teamates and we can make sure he takes screenies or twitches all the games he plays rather than selected ones and see how his claim goes.
Would even extend that to a group of guys, i have a TS that we can meet up on, would anyone else be up for this?, anyone else wana back up his claim that they can get into QP call games and get the result he claims, 2 out of 3 matches won by simply calling in a QP match, anyone?.
Also willing to go onto another TS if thats more suitable..

Edited by N0MAD, 31 December 2017 - 10:03 PM.

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 31 December 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

A challenge to you to back up this statement, lets you and I group up and drop in 10-20 matches in QP, you can call the drops, you are after all very experienced, and we will document, even twitch them, lets see how this statement holds up for you.
You up for it?

Look at my stats? I drop less than 10 matches in group queue in a month, if even that.

A 2man in group queue is unlikely to do as well but I'm still fine with that. What I find funny is that people consider it so absurd. Sure, dropping in a group is OP and unfair and just like haxx but talking to your team to coordinate in a match is IMPOSSIBRU!

Or, from down below below in another post, okay. I'm not game with sync-dropping since I've called BS on that since the idea came forward back in 8 v 8 with 4mans in the pug queue but whatever.

[N0MAD]

So is that a yes or a no, we do this or not. no sync dropping. Just me and you or with others on a TS while you drop and call, and we make sure you get a sceeny, you can twitch if you like, you made the statement wont you back it up?

[Bombast]

MischiefSC, on 31 December 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

Because QP is really, really easy to win in by just calling the drop or listening if someone else does. 2 out of 3 matches, give or take.

I'd just like to point out that QP is also really easy to lose in by calling/listening to callers.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. A good drop caller can swing a game, yes, but solo callers are just like solo players - At least 60% of them have no idea what in the hell they're doing.

Sorry, just hate the 'over appreciation' the forum has for non-group callers. Getting sick and tired of losing matches because the ghost-voice talking to the team over the internet suggested we should camp our spawn and wait for the enemy, or some equally stupid ploy. Mics don't make right.

Edited by Bombast, 31 December 2017 - 11:02 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Bombast, on 31 December 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

I'd just like to point out that QP is also really easy to lose in by calling/listening to callers.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. A good drop caller can swing a game, yes, but solo callers are just like solo players - At least 60% of them have no idea what in the hell they're doing.

Sorry, just hate the 'over appreciation' the forum has for non-group callers. Getting sick and tired of losing matches because the ghost-voice talking to the team over the internet suggested we should camp our spawn and wait for the enemy, or some equally stupid ploy. Mics don't make right.

Nope. Though 12 people following a bad idea is better than 12 people with no plan at all or playing like they just want to be the last one to die.

Calling in QP is a bit of an art. you make it super simple and you need to be set to be the one to go down in a blaze of glory first. Call targets, help with situational awareness, note 'Hey X, you're most our teams remaining armor'. They'll usually push up and everyone else often will stick with them.

Just make it super, super simple. Usually it starts with 'Remember everyone - one team pushes, the other team tends to get rolled. We want to be the team that pushes'.

Then, super simple, 'Let's go up the right to G7 and fight from there' or 'We need to take up top. We don't want to be the team that gets pushed off and smashed, we want to be pushing and smashing'.

You make short references to how matches get lost and say you don't want to be that guy, because that's what people tend to remember.

Also, call targets. It just takes 2 or 3 people focusing fire to swing a match in a big way.

[El Bandito]

N0MAD, on 31 December 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

A challenge to you to back up this statement, lets you and I group up and drop in 10-20 matches in QP, you can call the drops, you are after all very experienced, and we will document, even twitch them, lets see how this statement holds up for you.
You up for it?

The fact that my solo-q only mech is having slightly over to 2:1 WLR after 263 matches shows why Mischief is correct. I usually call the drops I am into, which results in people doing what is necessary at the right time, which translates to better WLR over the long run. Drop calling makes noticeable difference.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 December 2017 - 11:51 PM.

[MischiefSC]

El Bandito, on 31 December 2017 - 11:50 PM, said:

The fact that my solo-q only mech is having slightly over to 2:1 WLR after 263 matches shows why Mischief is correct. I usually call the drops I am into, which results in people doing what is necessary at the right time, which translates to better WLR over the long run. Drop calling makes noticeable difference.

Gosh, too bad that's utterly impossible unless we have the same unit tags and are on TS.

Then it's OP AF and just like an exploit being used to abuse other people.

In QP where there is literally no expectation of teamwork at all you functionally double your odds of winning. In FW where the expectation is teamwork it's a bigger difference.

Take good mechs

Play to your team

Make good choices

That's it. That's not the difference between a casual player and a professional athlete. It's the difference between a casual player who refuses to even try to take minimal steps to win and a casual player at least willing to put out the minimum effort.

[justcallme A S H]

N0MAD, on 31 December 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

True story, badly worded, group up i actually meant meet on a TS and spend the time together while he plays his games, i play mine, we may actually meet in some games as opponents or teamates and we can make sure he takes screenies or twitches all the games he plays rather than selected ones and see how his claim goes.
Would even extend that to a group of guys, i have a TS that we can meet up on, would anyone else be up for this?, anyone else wana back up his claim that they can get into QP call games and get the result he claims, 2 out of 3 matches won by simply calling in a QP match, anyone?.
Also willing to go onto another TS if thats more suitable..

Just look at my last 3 seasons of QP?

4.0 - 2.0 WLR.

It's easily doable, especially if you are a carry player. And I'm not even *that* good.

[N0MAD]

Are solo Q and group Q stats listed differently?.

Mischief i take that as a no? since you havent accepted?, i figured as much.
I extend the offer to Bandito or Ash also, either of you wana take it up? back up Mischiefs claim that by calling in the QP you can win 2 out of 3 games?

[justcallme A S H]

No they are grouped together.

Last season of mine was a bit of GroupQ, the previous was basically all solo. Take up what? Look at my stats - They are proof of it already with a 4.0 WLR from SoloQ 2 seasons outta the last 3...

Hell when we drop GroupQ with 2-3 of us, there is barely any comms because there is no need. 4 decent players is enough to roll 12 on the other side almost game in, game out.

QP overall annoys the **** outta me. Hence I rarely play more than 100-200 in a month. The constant idiotic NASCAR every, single, damn game...

Edited by justcallme A S H, 01 January 2018 - 03:12 AM.

[El Bandito]

N0MAD, on 01 January 2018 - 02:07 AM, said:

Are solo Q and group Q stats listed differently?.

Mischief i take that as a no? since you havent accepted?, i figured as much.
I extend the offer to Bandito or Ash also, either of you wana take it up? back up Mischiefs claim that by calling in the QP you can win 2 out of 3 games?

I already told you my Solo-Q only mech got 2:1 WLR (that's two out of three games) even after 263 matches (forget about your 10-20 matches), in part thanks to my calling. Here is the proof--I don't play my DS anywhere else but Solo-Q. Now stop being silly.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 January 2018 - 05:32 AM.

[Void Angel]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

virtually every other multiplayer game separates premade groups from pugs for a reason.

Which games?

[Starwulfe]

Thing is it doesn't matter which games, because it's not virtually every other.
There's just as many PvP oriented games that never split the populace and did fine.
For example, PS, BF, and DAoC.

[Q]

justcallme A S H, on 01 January 2018 - 03:08 AM, said:

QP overall annoys the **** outta me. Hence I rarely play more than 100-200 in a month.

I can barely squeeze in 200 and I don't *mind* QP! ;D

[TWIAFU]

N0MAD, on 31 December 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

A challenge to you to back up this statement, lets you and I group up and drop in 10-20 matches in QP, you can call the drops, you are after all very experienced, and we will document, even twitch them, lets see how this statement holds up for you.
You up for it?

Is it really hard to believe that if you have a DC and you follow him/her you will win more often then if you have neither?

Twelve people firing at half a dozen or more different targets vs twelve firing at one or two?

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 01 January 2018 - 02:07 AM, said:

Are solo Q and group Q stats listed differently?.

Mischief i take that as a no? since you havent accepted?, i figured as much.
I extend the offer to Bandito or Ash also, either of you wana take it up? back up Mischiefs claim that by calling in the QP you can win 2 out of 3 games?

Do you understand that your tendency to ask disingenuous questions and then assume the answer which, in turn, incorrectly implies your assumptions about what that means is correct is a really, really dishonest way to try and make a point.

Yes, everyone knows that QP and group queue stats are mixed. However group queue is a tiny, tiny fraction of playtime for all but a tiny, tiny fraction of players. For most of us it's also *more* difficult because it's not at all uncommon to run into a 6 or 8man Emp and the like, which playing in a 4man isn't going to help you against.

I accepted because your assumptions are false and easy to disprove as pointed out already by several others. Already sent you a friend request and will find you on when I can. Not that your method is valid; we can't be in the same matches so you have no way of seeing how and why the wins happen. Either you trust me and the people above to accurately report the results, in which case everyone already telling you their results are accurate, or you don't. In which case what is your test supposed to prove? That you were there making sure I didn't have a in group symbol next to my name? Okay. Whatever.

So after we all prove, again, that a 2.0 is not that hard to do in QP what's that going to change in your prior false assumptions?

[ANOM O MECH]

Bombast, on 31 December 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

I'd just like to point out that QP is also really easy to lose in by calling/listening to callers.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. A good drop caller can swing a game, yes, but solo callers are just like solo players - At least 60% of them have no idea what in the hell they're doing.

Sorry, just hate the 'over appreciation' the forum has for non-group callers. Getting sick and tired of losing matches because the ghost-voice talking to the team over the internet suggested we should camp our spawn and wait for the enemy, or some equally stupid ploy. Mics don't make right.

I actually mute most of the 'drop callers' in quick play. Even those others think are fantastic and are known for it.

It comes from one of the famous guys, trying to call a CW match when we were a six man and they were three. Oh and it was polar and they were in short range brawling builds wanting us to snake all over the map...in our Grasshopper 5P's and Battlemaster 1G's. We said no. The guy went off and had a complete meltdown about who he was.

We won without them.

Then there are guys like the b33f or bear_c1aw, who will call out a target or call where the push is coming from and listening to guys like this is actually worth it and advisable to do so.