250 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

TWIAFU, on 31 December 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

So PGI has to make a new safer Solaris for the new install/casual/average player.

Separate queues on Solaris! We cannot allow for the average, casual, new install fight against anyone that is not average, casual or likewise a fresh install. It is not fair! If you do not support separating queues to stop seal clubbing in Solaris you are a Solaris Seal Clubber!

How can you people even play against some casual in a trial mech with your uber meta alpha builds?!?!?

/sarcasm



And groups cannot be allowed in 2v2 Solaris! Not fair to PUGs! We need a solo only 2v2 and group only 2v2 Solaris Queues!

End Solaris Seal Clubbing now! Save the Seals!

[The Lost Boy]

Short answer - No.

[justcallme A S H]

MischiefSC, on 30 December 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

Also you're lying, a lot, in the whole thing. FW never emptied because of challenging matches. Ask anyone/everyone in Davion, which was the most populous loyalist faction by a million miles. Ask Liao and Marik who were almost always in a crappy spot. Or Kurita, or FRR, or Steiner - all of whom played endless matches against Clans when Clans were OP AF and still had literal comp tier units dropping in them. It emptied because PGI never delivered the promised content, leaving it shallow and without depth. Then Long Tom, then One Bukkit which made factions totally useless.

So your whole premise is built, literally, on lying and misrepresentation. Sure, pug FW content in QP. Let people play it with respawns and a matchmaker - hell, probably ought to mix Clan/IS on each side to fill matches and better balance for skill. FW though has always been about teamwork. Since Group Queue got nerfed for, you know, groups (so that we'd get all those 'casual players with a buddy or two' who were just waiting to play but it was nofair against groups.... who never showed up because bads still lose to less bads, they lost 100% as much and never showed just leaving group queue a crappy place to play as a group) FW is it for a teamwork environment save for the huge commitment of 8v8 comp play which most people don't have time or energy for.

So, in short, quit lying.

Well when you don't actually play the mode, let alone the game... And then you try and comment on it...


Well....

[riverslq]

Lykaon, on 31 December 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

Except that even if granted all they desire they will still be the victims of grouper alt accounts synchro dropping...so maybe we should enforce I.P. bans on all players who have ever joined a unit or dropped in a group....

/fixed, #puggie safespace!

No,
sync dropping doesnt always work, so yeah, no.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 31 December 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

Also it's tough to point out your dishonest statements when you edit them out of your posts but so long as it's gone I'm happy.

I assume you referred to so called lies in my post numbered 135, and say i edited/removed statements from said posts (or do you mean a different post if so pls point to that post) that post was edited to include Tarogatos post and my reply to it.
None of my original comments were edited/removed.

MischiefSC, on 30 December 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

Also you're lying, a lot, in the whole thing. FW never emptied because of challenging matches. Ask anyone/everyone in Davion, which was the most populous loyalist faction by a million miles. Ask Liao and Marik who were almost always in a crappy spot. Or Kurita, or FRR, or Steiner - all of whom played endless matches against Clans when Clans were OP AF and still had literal comp tier units dropping in them. It emptied because PGI never delivered the promised content, leaving it shallow and without depth. Then Long Tom, then One Bukkit which made factions totally useless.

So, in short, quit lying.

In none of my post in this thread or any thread have i made the statement that FW emptied because of challenging matches, i assume you credited me with saying that somewhere, as right before that youre saying i lie alot and then go onto that statement, thats pure fabrication on your behalf.
You accuse me of lying, then fabricate statements you claim i made, then when asked to point out these lies you claim i edited them out and now your ok because i removed them?, very convenient.
I suggest that certain parts of my post got your gander up, you didnt like then because it conflicted with your views and you retaliated by trying to insult/belittle me by calling me a liar and claiming i made statements i never did.
Bad form brother just bad form.
Im stepping out of this ummm debate after been reminded of an old saying.. "dont argue with stupid it will lower you to its standard and then beat you with experience".

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 31 December 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

I assume you referred to so called lies in my post numbered 135, and say i edited/removed statements from said posts (or do you mean a different post if so pls point to that post) that post was edited to include Tarogatos post and my reply to it.
None of my original comments were edited/removed.


In none of my post in this thread or any thread have i made the statement that FW emptied because of challenging matches, i assume you credited me with saying that somewhere, as right before that youre saying i lie alot and then go onto that statement, thats pure fabrication on your behalf.
You accuse me of lying, then fabricate statements you claim i made, then when asked to point out these lies you claim i edited them out and now your ok because i removed them?, very convenient.
I suggest that certain parts of my post got your gander up, you didnt like then because it conflicted with your views and you retaliated by trying to insult/belittle me by calling me a liar and claiming i made statements i never did.
Bad form brother just bad form.
Im stepping out of this ummm debate after been reminded of an old saying.. "dont argue with stupid it will lower you to its standard and then beat you with experience".

Passive aggressive implication while carefully avoiding the exact phrasing isn't fooling anyone. What you're doing is called 'begging the question'. You're implying repeatedly through your posts that units only play to farm pugs and don't want the queue split because they only want to farm pugs. You imply that in almost every post you've made.

Then you do the passive-aggressive bit at the end about arguing with stupid to imply that everyone else is just stupid.

Your arguments are incredibly, incredibly dishonest. What you're doing is trying to imply something without actually saying it so that you can avoid being called on the absolutely dishonest premise of what you're arguing.

Units just want to play FW. LIke everyone else. FW is a group oriented mode and always was, hence why it has more rewards - there's more effort involved in winning than in QP. The only reason pugging is allowed was a lot of begging on behalf of people who really wanted to pug in the group queue and were excited for FW.

Put the FW content in QP so people can play it with a matchmaker.

If someone wants to earn LP and bigger cbill rewards they need to group up and play to their team like everyone else who's always been winning in FW did, because that's why it has the bigger rewards.

This is not and never was complex. Splitting into pug and group queue for FW eliminates any point to having FW, the associated LP and cbill rewards.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 31 December 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

Passive aggressive implication while carefully avoiding the exact phrasing isn't fooling anyone. What you're doing is called 'begging the question'. You're implying repeatedly through your posts that units only play to farm pugs and don't want the queue split because they only want to farm pugs. You imply that in almost every post you've made.

Then you do the passive-aggressive bit at the end about arguing with stupid to imply that everyone else is just stupid.

Your arguments are incredibly, incredibly dishonest. What you're doing is trying to imply something without actually saying it so that you can avoid being called on the absolutely dishonest premise of what you're arguing.

LoL, now that you cant actually point to any direct quote i made you go down the road that i was implying.
Trying to bluff your way out with terns like "passive aggressive implications" in another words "hes saying this guys but i know he really means this cause you know i know exactly whats hes thinking and meaning altho thats not what hes written, i know better."
What i imply thru my post repeatedly is, I would of thought that groups would actually prefer to play against other groups rather than pugs, nothing more nothing less, let me repeat that and assure you thats exactly what i mean i will even make it bigger it for you..I would of thought that groups would actually prefer to play against other groups rather than pugs.
The arguing with stupid bit wasnt directed at other people it was directed at some one specific.
Where did you get your psychology degree? google?.

Edited by N0MAD, 31 December 2017 - 10:42 PM.

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 31 December 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

LoL, now that you cant actually point to any direct quote i made you go down the road that i was implying.
Trying to bluff your way out with terns like "passive aggressive implications" in another words "hes saying this guys but i know he really means this cause you know i know exactly whats hes thinking and meaning altho thats not what hes written, i know better."
The arguing with stupid bit wasnt directed at other people it was directed at some one specific.
Where did you get your psychology degree? google?.

Same things again. Your whole thread is you trying to imply without saying so you have the "yes but where exactly did I SAY units only want to farm pugs?" Yet that's the gist of the whole thread.

It's also possible that you're absolutely incompetent at communicating.

Whay is the name of this whole thread? It's a sarcastic comment followed up by a disingenuous misrepresentation of why people point out how stupid a split queue would be.

All you're missing is a "gosh, why would that be?"

You then go on to avoid specifically making any point at all. No statements of position, always trying to leave open some wiggle room for if you get called on it.

Same way you try to argue that Clan tech isn't better than IS. You carefully avoid saying your position, just ask skewed questions and then pick at the answers. Same as every post here. You imply, then say "well I never said" when called on it.

Which is still BS and dishonest AF.

[Deadfire]

Other than the entire premise of this thread is cancer inducing...

228th IBR (200+ members and thus defined as a "large unit") sees no reason to "PETITION PGI" to do anything in a mode of the game we barely touch and play in, apart than times where the official events demand we have to in order to gain special items and promotions.

If anything "ALL the players" need to petition PGI to put fort development time to fix FP to a logical conclusion that brings us back to enjoying the play mode.

Edited by Deadfire, 31 December 2017 - 11:09 PM.

[topgun505]

So then, do a root-cause analysis on this. WHY do we not have the numbers?

Is it a matter of advertising (in this case, lack thereof) so not bringing in many people?

Is it a matter of unable to retain new people?

If so, why is that? Is the learning curve too steep due to the complexity of building a mech (and lack of a tutorial)? Is it due to the skill tree? Is it because the moment they pair up with a vet to show them the ropes they are suddenly thrown into a que without tier matching and get their skulls stomped without mercy?

justcallme A S H, on 29 December 2017 - 06:05 PM, said:

One simple issue:

- The population cannot support it.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 31 December 2017 - 10:55 PM, said:

Same things again. Your whole thread is you trying to imply without saying so you have the "yes but where exactly did I SAY units only want to farm pugs?" Yet that's the gist of the whole thread.

It's also possible that you're absolutely incompetent at communicating.

Whay is the name of this whole thread? It's a sarcastic comment followed up by a disingenuous misrepresentation of why people point out how stupid a split queue would be.

All you're missing is a "gosh, why would that be?"

You then go on to avoid specifically making any point at all. No statements of position, always trying to leave open some wiggle room for if you get called on it.

Same way you try to argue that Clan tech isn't better than IS. You carefully avoid saying your position, just ask skewed questions and then pick at the answers. Same as every post here. You imply, then say "well I never said" when called on it.

Which is still BS and dishonest AF.

Sorry buddy but all im reading here is, "blahh blah blahhh, you imply, blahh blahh blahh, insult, blahh blahh blah, bring up some thing completely irrelevant, blahh blahh blah, insult."
Ok buddy i see your tactics here, keep digging your hole.

[dario03]

topgun505, on 31 December 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

So then, do a root-cause analysis on this. WHY do we not have the numbers?

Is it a matter of advertising (in this case, lack thereof) so not bringing in many people?

Is it a matter of unable to retain new people?

If so, why is that? Is the learning curve too steep due to the complexity of building a mech (and lack of a tutorial)? Is it due to the skill tree? Is it because the moment they pair up with a vet to show them the ropes they are suddenly thrown into a que without tier matching and get their skulls stomped without mercy?

I think part of it is the system preventing some players from grouping with each other and the wait times that the mode sometimes has turning players away.
I say let Mercs jump whenever so that you can always have FP as an option when grouped.
Also put in a All play button that just lets you check off what boxes you want for modes and then puts you in the best fit for your group. So If you have 4 players with a IS and Clan dropdeck ready for invasion and scouting then it lets you pick quick play, invasion (IS and/or Clan), and scouting (IS and/or Clan). If you don't have all the drop decks ready then you can't pick those modes. Maybe let you put a preference on what mode you want so if you want FP but don't want to wait forever you can put it as priority and the MM will try for that but after a while it will open up to QP.

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 31 December 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

Sorry buddy but all im reading here is, "blahh blah blahhh, you imply, blahh blahh blahh, insult, blahh blahh blah, bring up some thing completely irrelevant, blahh blahh blah, insult."
Ok buddy i see your tactics here, keep digging your hole.

Given that anyone can look at your posting history and can watch you doing the same B.S. again and again it's pretty clear.

Name of post.

When you get called on it you switch to baseless insults and the disingenuous "yes but where did I SAY it".

What's the point of this thread again? How about you specifically state it. To ask why units don't petition to split the queue and do exactly what you've been told, a billion times, is a stupid idea and exactly why? So either it's a disingenuous attempt to say the same dishonest BS again or you're really, really incompetent at communicating.

Why don't you specify.

[MischiefSC]

topgun505, on 31 December 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

So then, do a root-cause analysis on this. WHY do we not have the numbers?

Is it a matter of advertising (in this case, lack thereof) so not bringing in many people?

Is it a matter of unable to retain new people?

If so, why is that? Is the learning curve too steep due to the complexity of building a mech (and lack of a tutorial)? Is it due to the skill tree? Is it because the moment they pair up with a vet to show them the ropes they are suddenly thrown into a que without tier matching and get their skulls stomped without mercy?

Lack of depth and purpose. All the original promised stuff wasn't provided. It's largely just group queue with drop decks - no point or depth to factions, no logistics or sense of a war, no point to taking or losing worlds, none of it.

So people drifted off but it was still a lot of people.

Then months and months of Long Tom, then 1 Bukkit eliminated any point at all to factions.

It's never been what people originally wanted or expected. Hope of it being such died off. It then got a series of poor choices and I'll considered changes.

[justcallme A S H]

topgun505, on 31 December 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

So then, do a root-cause analysis on this. WHY do we not have the numbers?

Is it a matter of advertising (in this case, lack thereof) so not bringing in many people?

Is it a matter of unable to retain new people?

If so, why is that? Is the learning curve too steep due to the complexity of building a mech (and lack of a tutorial)? Is it due to the skill tree? Is it because the moment they pair up with a vet to show them the ropes they are suddenly thrown into a que without tier matching and get their skulls stomped without mercy?

We already know why the game is dying off... And it's to do with PGI, no one else.

[Mystere]

riverslq, on 31 December 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

You want to the game to live? or die?

FP as it is means death.

Sigh! I am so tired of people's extremely simplistic (i.e. read as "MINIMALLY VIABLE" ) solutions, thinking they will solve MWO's glaring problems. As such, I will just quote myself, again and again and again, until people get a clue:

Mystere, on 25 December 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

... the problem with CW is not the queues. The problem always has been that it's just a mere skeleton of what it was supposed to be. EACH AND EVERY PROBLEM COMES FROM THAT FACT.

Mystere, on 26 December 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

It is PGI's scraps-based approach to everything (the word "piecemeal" was too generous) is what doomed the game from the beginning.

Creating a hard separation between groups and solos -- and nothing else for several months, as per their usual modus operandi -- will just just destroy CW even more as it transforms into a solo-only game mode.

Edited by Mystere, 01 January 2018 - 01:38 PM.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 31 December 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

Lack of depth and purpose. All the original promised stuff wasn't provided. It's largely just group queue with drop decks - no point or depth to factions, no logistics or sense of a war, no point to taking or losing worlds, none of it.

So people drifted off but it was still a lot of people.

Then months and months of Long Tom, then 1 Bukkit eliminated any point at all to factions.

It's never been what people originally wanted or expected. Hope of it being such died off. It then got a series of poor choices and I'll considered changes.

One of the major errors that continues to be made by people wanting a solo FP/CW queue was that you needed 12 people ON BOTH SIDES - which means you needed 24 people IN TOTAL to queue up to cause a match to occur. Simple math says if you can get to 12 with groups, you would be more likely to start a match. You'll still occasionally get the occasional math mismatch (have enough for 13 or more, but not quite 12 when you juggle the numbers around), but it can be reached much more quickly.

We're just lucky we don't have to deal with all the ghost drops anymore.

We used to be able to track that in Phase 1+2, and now it's anyone's guess to see if there's enough people on both ends (for a potential solo queue) to start a match.

Math is that thing that PGI is bad at, and people with bad arguments that don't account for either.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 January 2018 - 01:27 PM.

[Mystere]

Lykaon, on 31 December 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

Except that even if granted all they desire they will still be the victims of grouper alt accounts synchro dropping...so maybe we should enforce I.P. bans on all players who have ever joined a unit or dropped in a group....

/fixed, #puggie safespace!

THat's what VPNs are for.

[C E Dwyer]

God no..

As others have correctly put

the population won't support it

[C E Dwyer]

topgun505, on 31 December 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

So then, do a root-cause analysis on this. WHY do we not have the numbers?

Is it a matter of advertising (in this case, lack thereof) so not bringing in many people?

Is it a matter of unable to retain new people?

If so, why is that? Is the learning curve too steep due to the complexity of building a mech (and lack of a tutorial)? Is it due to the skill tree? Is it because the moment they pair up with a vet to show them the ropes they are suddenly thrown into a que without tier matching and get their skulls stomped without mercy?

The learning curve isn't to steep, people just expect to be good after a few days, and don't apply themselves.

Building mechs isn't really that complex, while the 'meta' changes, the basis remains the same, and builds are easily found on various websites.

MWO is a game that you need to apply yourself to, much like world of warships takes time to be good and understand, most other twitch games you can be bad, but still hit things after an hour or so.

and most people want instant gratification..