281 replies to this topic

[Divenity]

Johnathan Tanner, on 10 January 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

Sure, I think most units would be delighted to have a split queue. On this condition.

No rewards,No LP, No Mechbays. No extra cbills. No influencing the map.(Not that anybody really cares about that at this point)

Just quickplay with respawns.

Have fun.

And I think that's incredibly stupid. WHy should the rest of us not be allowed to contribute to the war and earn faction rewards?

[Divenity]

Juju Shinobi, on 11 January 2018 - 03:56 AM, said:

Good evening my good and kind sir. Just to jog your memory a tad my dear gentleman, there is a gigantic and very obvious warning that CW is not for solo and new players. It is for groups. Also my dear friend, they have separated the queues before and you'd take an hour or more to find a match. I would highly suggest finding friends to play with or just getting better at the video game.

Thank you for your attention and have a wonderful day =)

Good evening, [REDACTED], if it weren't for solo players, there would be no solo queue option.

Thank you for your attention and have a wonderful day =)

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 05:17 PM.
CoC Violation.

[Divenity]

Stealthrider, on 11 January 2018 - 04:27 AM, said:

Just gonna leave what I proposed in the "Yet Another FP Thread" thread here, because relevant.

Yeah, good luck with that, because it will never happen... They aren't going to intentionally limit themselves when they know other groups will more than likely not be doing so... The only way this would ever work is if it were forced.

Xannatharr, on 11 January 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

Signed,

Everyone that likes playing Faction with their friends

And you'd still be able to do so, nothing would be stopping you.

Edited by Divenity, 11 January 2018 - 01:22 PM.

[r4zen]

Xannatharr, on 11 January 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

we are responsible for our own play and our own choices!

LOUDER FOR THE LRM'ERS IN THE BACK

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

And I think that's incredibly stupid. WHy should the rest of us not be allowed to contribute to the war and earn faction rewards?

You would be. If you joined/created a unit and grouped up.

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 01:11 PM, said:

Good evening, condescending a-hole, if it weren't for solo players, there would be no solo queue option.

You have it wrong. It's 'for' units and experienced pilots. Folks like yourself are allowed to also come along and check it out.

[Xannatharr]

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

And you'd still be able to do so, nothing would be stopping you.

Sorry the Game Mode was designed for people that wanted to drop in premade groups in the first place.

It doesn't make sense to change the design just because a handful of people want to have access to the same rewards that other players are enjoying without needing to invest the same time and effort to group up and earn them.

That's like you saying that it isn't fair that a Mercedes G-Class SUV is $120,000 so the price should be dropped for you.

If you don't have the means to buy it you either acquire those means (through work) or you go buy a perfectly-good Ford Explorer for $32,000 (Quickplay). It even has wi-fi... so enjoy.

Xann

Edited by Xannatharr, 11 January 2018 - 02:29 PM.

[Appogee]

PLEASE, PLEASE PLAY IN A GROUP WHEN YOU'RE PLAYING THE GROUP MODE OF THE GAME.

[Xannatharr]

Appogee, on 11 January 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

PLEASE, PLEASE PLAY IN A GROUP WHEN YOU'RE PLAYING THE GROUP MODE OF THE GAME.

That seems like such common sense.... which is often missing around here.

I will readily admit that I solo-queue Faction from time to time and I will also admit that people queuing solo often enable teams to fill and actually get a match. I'm grateful for that, especially when that person that solo-queued shows up and has their mechs set up nicely, moves with the team, etc.

I don't even care if they don't say a peep on comms, it's good enough that they helped us get a match and are working as part of the team even if their numbers aren't great.

Xann

Edited by Xannatharr, 11 January 2018 - 01:38 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 01:11 PM, said:

Good evening, condescending a-hole, if it weren't for solo players, there would be no solo queue option.

Thank you for your attention and have a wonderful day =)

So before you played your first game on Faction Play... You were greeted with the below screen




Which part of it did you fail to understand, exactly?
Or did you just ignore it and then chose to complain about the very things it warns you about like a bunch of others have before you?

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

And you'd still be able to do so, nothing would be stopping you.

Yes. Of course you are because not always are friends/unit members online to get into a group. By dropping solo and understanding the warning screen - you know full well before you drop what you are getting into.

[justcallme A S H]

Divenity, on 10 January 2018 - 09:53 PM, said:

2. "there isn't enough population to support separated queues."

Thing is, those two statements are contradictory...If all the PuGs went and played quick play, there would be the exact same number of people left playing FP as there would be in the group only queue if queues were separated... So, why not just separate the queues?

I'd wager you'd actually get MORE people participating in FP with separated queues, since the people not doing it because they got sick of getting stomped by premades every other game would have reason to go play it again.

So Divenity, it looks like you are a new player. You've played 52 games, won 12 of them. I can understand you are frustrated. This frustration does come from your own choice to drop solo. So firstly, you need to accept that.

Secondly, I've played 1,000 matches this season and plenty more the season prior and plenty more prior to that as well. Maybe 5k games? Maybe even more. I understand it better than most as I play with groups/units all over the place and have had plenty of solos come join my groups.

If the PUGs all went to QP - FP would die.
If the Groups all went to a GroupQ - FP would die

They both rely on the other to exist for at least 10-12hrs of the 24hr cycle as there simply is not the population to support a split queue. The main reason for this is the FP3.0 patch (some 18 months ago?) which killed off well over half the Faction Play population because it was a bad patch and Russ/PGI were too stubborn to revert the major issues with it (Single Attack Lane, Long Time, Loyalist Shafting etc).

What you are saying simply will not work and/or is not true. I don't expect you to understand the mode given how little games you have actually played but the background above might, just might, help you to realise you are wrong.

Want some advice? Get into a group / unit or otherwise and improve your own experience. You and you alone are in total control of it. PGI won't change a thing.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 11 January 2018 - 02:34 PM.

[Lawrence Elsa]

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

And I think that's incredibly stupid. WHy should the rest of us not be allowed to contribute to the war and earn faction rewards?

Because often times people who drop solo are a doing the opposite of contributing to the cause because their losses against organized groups undoes all the work other organized groups connected to their side do. How about you contribute to the war first then argue why you should be allowed to reap the benefits?

[Divenity]

Xannatharr, on 11 January 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

Sorry the Game Mode was designed for people that wanted to drop in premade groups in the first place.

Once a-f-ing gain, if it were only meant for groups, it wouldn't have a solo queue option at all.

Lawrence Elsa, on 11 January 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

Because often times people who drop solo are a doing the opposite of contributing to the cause because their losses against organized groups undoes all the work other organized groups connected to their side do.

And guess what would solve the problem of unorganized groups dropping against organized premades?

separate god damn queues.

[r4zen]

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

Once a-f-ing gain, if it were only meant for groups, it wouldn't have a solo queue option at all.

r4zen, on 11 January 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

You have it wrong. It's 'for' units and experienced pilots. Folks like yourself are allowed to also come along and check it out.

It's kind of like when you stick a fork in an electric socket. "IF IT WEREN'T MEANT TO GO IN THERE, THEN WHY DOES IT FIT?"

Sometimes you have to apply a little common sense.

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

And guess what would solve the problem of unorganized groups dropping against organized premades?

separate god damn queues.

You know what else solves that 'problem'? Grouping up. And 'git gud'.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Just thought I'd throw a bit of timeline history out there...those arguing "we had separate queues before and they failed" are conveniently forgetting that the solo and unit queues were merged when each IS House and Clan still had their own separate queues, before we were then combined into single faction buckets. We have not tried separate solo and unit queues while we've had single bucket faction play. In my mind, they should have done the single bucket merge first, then looked at the solo vs. unit queue viability.

[Divenity]

r4zen, on 11 January 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

Sometimes you have to apply a little common sense.

Common sense would be seperated queues, like every other game has for this kind of thing.

Quote

You know what else solves that 'problem'? Grouping up.

Shouldn't be necessary and isn't always possible, even for people in units... Those people would be able to drop into the solo queue when their units aren't online.

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 11 January 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

Just thought I'd throw a bit of timeline history out there...those arguing "we had separate queues before and they failed" are conveniently forgetting that the solo and unit queues were merged when each IS House and Clan still had their own separate queues, before we were then combined into single faction buckets. We have not tried separate solo and unit queues while we've had single bucket faction play. In my mind, they should have done the single bucket merge first, then looked at the solo vs. unit queue viability.

Thank you for actually being reasonable.

[ArJuna]

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

Once a-f-ing gain, if it were only meant for groups, it wouldn't have a solo queue option at all.

You clearly have missed what the developers intended, and the warning you were given. Thus it makes sense that you also have missed the entire point of why there is the ability for solo players to enter the queue...

Please remember that Not all players are potatos. We know that when our skill is not enough to outdo the other team's conhesion not to whine and complain about it in the forums.

[r4zen]

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

Common sense would be seperated queues, like every other game has for this kind of thing.

Yes, if you're going off of gameplay experience for new, inexperienced pilots.

There's a plethora of things that PGI could/should do to help newer pilots transition from QP mentality and tactics to FP. But they haven't. It's been years. And with Solaris being the priority right now, FP is not going to get serious Dev support for a long time, if ever.

What folks are trying to point out to you, some more harshly than others, is that you're not going to get a split queue. Therefore, if you want to continue dropping FP and have a little more fun, you need to modify your own behavior and attitude to fit the mode, not vice versa.

The main problem with the split queue idea is that it effectively changes nothing. Units (groups) will ghost drop in the group queue (or get tired of running into the same opponents) and sync drop the solo queue. Or, units will actively avoid the group queue because they see EVIL, BCMC, MS, etc. sitting in a lobby - same effect as the Comp queue when EMP was dropping.

I have yet to see a suggestion to address this in the split queue argument.

Bottom line, split queues fracture an already small population and do not solve the problem that you're having - i.e. that you're getting steamrolled by a large group.

You've been given the best advice there is for current FP - group up and/or 'git gud'. If you are not willing to do either of those things, then my friend, no developer can help you.

[Divenity]

r4zen, on 11 January 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

do not solve the problem that you're having

It mitigates it by a large amount.

Quote

split queues fracture an already small population

with factions being lumped together, instead of clan individual clan and house having it's own queue, doubt the population is too small to handle it... It was not in a position to handle it before, but things have changed, no reason not to see if the Clan vs IS war can handle it..

Edited by Divenity, 11 January 2018 - 05:22 PM.

[r4zen]

r4zen, on 11 January 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

The main problem with the split queue idea is that it effectively changes nothing. Units (groups) will ghost drop in the group queue (or get tired of running into the same opponents) and sync drop the solo queue. Or, units will actively avoid the group queue because they see EVIL, BCMC, MS, etc. sitting in a lobby - same effect as the Comp queue when EMP was dropping.

I have yet to see a suggestion to address this in the split queue argument.

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

It mitigates it by a large amount.

It won't mitigate it at all, unless you can figure out to stop those same groups from sync-dropping into the solo queue. FP units won't ditch FP for quickplay if they don't like what they're seeing in the group queue, they'll split off into the solo queue. And because we're one bucket, that means that they're all going to end up on the same side anyway. Maybe not in a full 12-man, but it will be enough to matter.

The net effect is the same - you will still face organized groups in the solo queue.

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

with factions being lumped together, instead of clan individual clan and house having it's own queue, doubt the population is too small to handle it...

What are you forming this opinion on? Do you have a rough estimate of how large the non-event FP population is? I do. I manually scraped the FP leaderboard before the last Tukkayid event. I'm curious to see how many pilots - across 3 main timezones - you think drop regularly in FP? Regularly being at least 10 drops per calendar month.

It's small. Devastatingly small.

[50 50]

I'd wonder if the Event system they built might allow the split queue without having to do anything other than turn it on..... but I doubt it.

At the moment I am against splitting the queues in Faction Play to have a group queue and a solo queue as I feel the population simply can't support it.
Whether having the separate queue would actually encourage more people to play Faction Play is debatable. It is unlikely to prevent one sided stomps, it may even be worse given that these stomps happen in the solo quick play queue and Faction Play is just an exaggeration of that with the respawns and dropdecks.

Also consider that before the possibility of anything actually being looked at in Faction Play we are going to have Solaris and this is immediately adding more queues and therefore further splits in the population. Group queue quick play is starting to get difficult and sometimes impossible to get matches in.

At some point there has to be some consolidation of the various queues, or if not, some function in the various queues to allow for matches with smaller team sizes.

My personal feeling is that we need to make Faction Play groups only and be the only group queue. ie. Remove group quick play.
Now that the quick play modes and maps are part of Faction Play, it makes more sense to consolidate.

I can certainly understand wanting to fight for your faction and contribute, but given we have lost a good deal of that faction identity which is a massive reason for even playing the mode, a better answer would be preferred.

[vandalhooch]

Divenity, on 11 January 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

And I think that's incredibly stupid. WHy should the rest of us not be allowed to contribute to the war and earn faction rewards?

Because you aren't actually contributing and you aren't actually earning anything. Earning a reward requires you do something hard. You want to do something easy but get rewarded as if what you did was hard.