281 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

Divenity, on 10 January 2018 - 09:53 PM, said:

Most PuGs don't enjoy getting stomped by premades, and most premades don't enjoy stomping PuGs.

Time and time again I hear two things

1. "go play quick play"

2. "there isn't enough population to support separated queues."

Thing is, those two statements are contradictory...If all the PuGs went and played quick play, there would be the exact same number of people left playing FP as there would be in the group only queue if queues were separated... So, why not just separate the queues?

Let the PuGs and the groups both contribute to the faction war with reasonably fair fights.

Add a checkbox for solo players to optionally fill in gaps in the group queues if they are willing, for when groups can't field a full 12 people.

I'd wager you'd actually get MORE people participating in FP with separated queues, since the people not doing it because they got sick of getting stomped by premades every other game would have reason to go play it again.

The problem, ultimately, rests in the fact that PGI has absolutely no clue how to separate people based on skill, experience or just sheer time played. What you see in QP is actually the best they can do. No lie.

Believe it or not, there are PUG teams that give the premades a run for their money. Not the ones that are trying to carry 8 new guys in LRM boats trying to attack the orbital gun against MS...no, those teams were destined to be "OPFOR" when they were put together. Which is, oddly enough, how PGI designed the whole faction thing. It's actually the best they can do.

[TWIAFU]

Divenity, on 13 January 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

How many times do I need to say "just because a thing is one way now doesn't mean it should stay that way" before you understand that is my poision on this subject and stop yelling this crap at me? Do you think you're going to change my mind on this, is that it? You aren't, just like I'm not going to change yours, so if you'll accept that fact and stop yelling at me about this, I'll stop yelling back, deal?.

Then my 10 teammates who quit playing siege to farm kills at our dropzone also had no acceptable reason to do what they did. They quit.




I'll put this as simply as i can: If they don't need a reason to quit, I don't need one.

If you can't find me an acceptable excuse for what they did, I'm not going to bother giving you one for what I did. The match was a complete shitshow, they weren't participating in playing siege, so I didn't either.

And to be honest, quite frankly I don't give a damn if you don't find it acceptable, because if my entire team acts in an "unacceptable" manner, I might as well too, because what I do at that point doesn't make a damn bit of difference in the outcome of the rest of the match.



If you act like a [REDACTED], I'm gonna call you one, don't want to be called one? Stop being one.

Being condescending for no reason is also a sure sign of a weak mind and weak point.

I started this out being respectful, others broke the respect first, I responded in kind.

I don't have to excuse their actions, I am not them, and I am not the one admitting to quitting because I didn't like how others were playing. CW was/is filled with ******* players and worse during an event. Odd thing is, your deflecting still. Not only will you not answer the question based off your claims, you now excuse your actions based on some annon d-bags. Still not taking responsibility for YOUR actions blame excuse them based on others. Special.

You know what cupcake, you reap what you sow, and I am quite comfortable with that. Seems you are not.

Funny that you want to claim you been all nice, and were only a **** after other were a ****. At least you are consistant in blaming others for your own actions.

BTW, people can all go and read what was posted and what you did. You were the fist to start calling people [REDACTED] here buddy.

What you have done is made a name for yourself among those that play CW a lot.

Good luck.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 07:02 PM.
Quote Cleanup

[Divenity]

vandalhooch, on 14 January 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

Did I call you a [REDACTED]?

Nope, but you were condescending, which is grounds for being called a [REDACTED] in my book.

Quote

Snowballing due to limited or no respawns leads to many matches with lopsided kill numbers. Doesn't matter if the teams are balanced or not.

Look at the dozens and dozens of threads that pop up in the general section of the forum every year that complain about the "high rate of stomps" in Quick Play. That's in a part of the game that does not allow group drops and sync dropping is very ineffectual. And there are still stomps.

Now you want to create a Faction Play version of that but it will be very susceptible to sync dropping. Your "solution" will not solve the problem you think exists.



In other words, you flat out admit that stomps happen in solo-only modes.

Yes, I've been "admitting" that for days now, I never said they DIDN'T happen, I said they happen LESS... Remember when I called you dense? Stuff like this is why.

Quote

That was an attempt to avoid having groups sync-dropping in the solo queue. I note that your solution will do absolutely nothing about sync-dropping.

Which doesn't accomplish anything, because it wasn't "solo queue" it was "no unit queue".

And sync droppers are the minority of group players... Only the few who want to stomp pugs instead of fighting other groups will sync drop, the groups that want to fight groups will stay in group queue.

Reduced rewards also help deter this action. It won't be eliminated entirely, but it will be less common.

Quote

In other words, you didn't know something and are trying to pretend that your ignorance doesn't really matter. The fact that you didn't know a basic fact like the number of factions doesn't give you a moment's pause to consider if there might be other basic things you don't know, does it?

It does, but math is math, and in this case, the math is still in my favor here. 2 queues is a lot less than 10.

Quote

Wasting time and resources creating something that we can already tell will not work is doing harm.

You can't tell, you can only hypothesize, because the current environment is vastly different from what it was last time.

vandalhooch, on 14 January 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

You keep getting reminded of this because you want to change Faction Play into something that the game already has, Quick Play. Answer the question, why should Faction Play be changed into Quick Play when we already have Quick Play? Is it the additional mode and maps that you want added to Quick Play? No. It's the LP rewards you want. That's the giveaway to your position. You are acting like an entitled brat.

It's not being changed into quick play... This is like saying "FP is for groups only, but there's already a group only mode in comp play, so FP shouldn't exist".

The point of FP is to war with the other faction for dominance of the inner sphere, not random people from both sides smashed together on both teams.

You're acting like an elitist jerk. (see, I can do that too)

In reality, I'm looking for a middleground between current FP and QP, something to ease people into FP because it's much easier to properly get into, entices them with FP rewards, but at a much slower pace, those people maybe eventually find groups and go into group queue because they want to earn LP faster or contribute more to the war effort per match, and the solo queue is always there for when they want to just hop in a do a quick FP game when none of their group is online and they don't feel like solo dropping into the group queue.

Quote

And so did you, quitter.

I have never disputed this, so I don't know why you keep telling me I'm a quitter as if it is supposed to hurt my feelings or something.

Quote

You'll note that not a single one of us has come out in support of those other players choice. But, they aren't here rationalizing their actions. You are.

Someone was, actually, It was claimed what they did was fine because they were "still firing their lasors" or some such nonsense. We have different definitions of the term "still playing". If they are intentionally ignoring the objective of the game mode, they are not playing.

Quote

Quitter.

See above.

Quote

Rationalizing poor sportsmanship doesn't change the fact that it is poor sportsmanship.

You've already defined poor sportsmanship, and I've already explained that your definition of it doesn't apply to me. you don't get to change the definition after the fact.

Quote

Avoiding criticisms of your idea to focus on how those criticisms were expressed is a sign that you know the criticisms were valid and are now just trying to deflect attention away from that fact.

I didn't avoid any criticisms, I simply called people what they were AS I addressed their condescending criticisms.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 07:03 PM.
Quote Cleanup + CoC Violation

[Divenity]

TWIAFU, on 14 January 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

how others were playing.

They weren't playing, that's the problem.

Quote

Odd thing is, your deflecting still. Not only will you not answer the question based off your claims, you now excuse your actions based on some annon d-bags. Still not taking responsibility for YOUR actions blame excuse them based on others. Special.

No, I'm not, I've adequately explained my reasoning. If you don't think my reasoning is acceptable, good for you, I don't care.

Quote

You know what cupcake, you reap what you sow, and I am quite comfortable with that. Seems you are not.

And you reap what you sow, your condescending d-baggery will catch up with you sooner or later.

Quote

Funny that you want to claim you been all nice, and were only a **** after other were a ****. At least you are consistant in blaming others for your own actions.

If people don't act like condescending [REDACTED] to me, I won't call them condescending [REDACTED], I don't understand how this is a difficult concept for you to grasp.

Quote

BTW, people can all go and read what was posted and what you did. You were the fist to start calling people [REDACTED] here buddy.

First to start calling people a-holes, not the first to act disrespectful. See, if I make a thread starting out being respectful, and people come into it and disrespect me, I'm going to disrespect them right back, that's how it works, the minute you disrespect me, I will lose all respect for you.

Quote

What you have done is made a name for yourself among those that play CW a lot.

I really don't care what you think of me.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 07:06 PM.
CoC Violations + Quote Cleanup

[KingCobra]

If the lords of MWO split the FP queues solo VS solo players and organized teams VS organized teams only it would not break my heart and it might improve game play for both groups.

[Clownwarlord]

In the past I would have agreed with separating group and solo queue for Faction Warfare, but the more I have played Faction the more it dies off. Also PGI did try it before and it caused for longer wait times (just about as long as it took to find a match when the game mode first came out, which could run about an hour).

So in my opinion, NO. Why?
1. It will kill off Faction Warfare more quickly due to longer wait times.
2. There are already tools in the game to help get groups formed to make Faction Warfare a better experience.
- Looking for group.
- In game friend invites.
- In game VOIP.
- In game quick chat. (help, target spotted ... )
- In game commander can use map.
- Units
3. Out of game tools.
- Discord, Teamspeak, ... other VOIP programs.
- Smurfy for mech builds
- MWO forums and other unit forum for mech builds and skill tree builds. You can eve try Youtube.
- Ask other units for information, tools, or tips. MS (the OLD MS) use to give out an online slide show with tools and tips; and some units still do share other information just ask around.

Edited by Clownwarlord, 14 January 2018 - 05:48 PM.

[MischiefSC]

KingCobra, on 14 January 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

If the lords of MWO split the FP queues solo VS solo players and organized teams VS organized teams only it would not break my heart and it might improve game play for both groups.

Until the good players drop in solo queue and turn it into farmville.

Because the issue isn't groups vs pugs. Plenty of good players win when pugging. Always have. The problem is good players vs bad players. No queue split will change the skill distribution. I get the desire to pretend that there's some evil haxx or exploit involved in teamwork and communication that's being leveraged against all the noble solo players but that's not just stupid, it's bordering on insane.

This is a team v team game. Team of 12 v team of 12. Bad players, people who are bad at this game, try to avoid or ignore that. So they get crushed, repeatedly and consistently, by good players - who, by dint of being good, actually noticed that all 24 players in each match are split into Blue team and Red team and by incredible super math powers came to the genius realization that means you're actually on a TEAM, and working as a team beats not working as a team when you are, inherently, already on a team.

I win 2 out of 3 matches in QP and I'm not even that good. Someone like Pat Kell dropping in the solo queue would win pretty much as often there as he does leading a KCom 6-12man currently - because he's very good and he communicates and coordinates well.

Splitting the queues doesn't change the players. Everyone in Clan side now will be in Clans after and vice versa. So what would happen would be that 40 Clan players would get in the queue vs 40 IS players. Of the 40 Clan players if 6 are KCom, 6 are BCMC and 10 of the rest are mixed members of teams who play with BCMC, KCom and EVIL, pretty much all 3 drops getting made by the matchmaker are going to be mixed skilled team players and a couple of pugs. We will get into the drop, see who's there, and Pat for example will say 'Okay, please bring mid to brawl and at least 1 Linebacker' and everyone involved save the pugs will know what that means because it's how we already play.

The match will play out exactly the same as it already does only you'll have 3 teams like that instead of just 1 or 2 in queue. The IS team will struggle a bit more (right now anyway) because while MS runs 3 x 12s it's only got a few good drop callers where as BCMC, KCom and the teams currently in Clans have about a dozen. Regardless of which the bad players on both sides still won't group up, still won't play as a team and will still be worthless and still get farmed by the other side.

Except what you guys are really talking about is wanting to somehow magically create this environment where everyone who plays in it is terrible too so you can keep playing badly and making bad choices but win more often.

Nothing you do with the queues, nothing at all, will in any way change the skill distribution or who is playing and how. None of it's going to change that it's a team game. 12 v 12. Every match. Stupid people and bad players want to pretend it's some sort of deathmatch thing. It's not. It's two teams. So when you're not playing as part of a team and doing your best to use teamwork you are no different than someone taking a stock mech with single heatsinks and an XL in an Atlas with 10 armor on the side torsos. You're intentionally making bad choices that lead to your failure, because the way the game works you want to use DHS, you want to maximize your armor on the torsos and you want to not run ISXL on all but a handful of builds. Not because other players are bullies who want to ruin your day but because the way the game works anyone who isn't also making incredibly stupid choices will beat you based on the basic game mechanics around heat management and IS XLs dying on a ST loss.

Teamwork is exactly the same thing. People who are not actively working to play as a team are no different than people taking suicide troll builds. They are making bad choices that contribute significantly to their failure, then saying it's everyone elses fault for playing the game as it's designed.

No change in the queues will alter that. Bad players will still be bad, good players will still be good. Quit trying to change the game in the false hope that it will somehow make being bad a winning strategy.

[KingCobra]

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

Until the good players drop in solo queue and turn it into farmville.

Because the issue isn't groups vs pugs. Plenty of good players win when pugging. Always have. The problem is good players vs bad players. No queue split will change the skill distribution. I get the desire to pretend that there's some evil haxx or exploit involved in teamwork and communication that's being leveraged against all the noble solo players but that's not just stupid, it's bordering on insane.

This is a team v team game. Team of 12 v team of 12. Bad players, people who are bad at this game, try to avoid or ignore that. So they get crushed, repeatedly and consistently, by good players - who, by dint of being good, actually noticed that all 24 players in each match are split into Blue team and Red team and by incredible super math powers came to the genius realization that means you're actually on a TEAM, and working as a team beats not working as a team when you are, inherently, already on a team.

I win 2 out of 3 matches in QP and I'm not even that good. Someone like Pat Kell dropping in the solo queue would win pretty much as often there as he does leading a KCom 6-12man currently - because he's very good and he communicates and coordinates well.

Splitting the queues doesn't change the players. Everyone in Clan side now will be in Clans after and vice versa. So what would happen would be that 40 Clan players would get in the queue vs 40 IS players. Of the 40 Clan players if 6 are KCom, 6 are BCMC and 10 of the rest are mixed members of teams who play with BCMC, KCom and EVIL, pretty much all 3 drops getting made by the matchmaker are going to be mixed skilled team players and a couple of pugs. We will get into the drop, see who's there, and Pat for example will say 'Okay, please bring mid to brawl and at least 1 Linebacker' and everyone involved save the pugs will know what that means because it's how we already play.

The match will play out exactly the same as it already does only you'll have 3 teams like that instead of just 1 or 2 in queue. The IS team will struggle a bit more (right now anyway) because while MS runs 3 x 12s it's only got a few good drop callers where as BCMC, KCom and the teams currently in Clans have about a dozen. Regardless of which the bad players on both sides still won't group up, still won't play as a team and will still be worthless and still get farmed by the other side.

Except what you guys are really talking about is wanting to somehow magically create this environment where everyone who plays in it is terrible too so you can keep playing badly and making bad choices but win more often.

Nothing you do with the queues, nothing at all, will in any way change the skill distribution or who is playing and how. None of it's going to change that it's a team game. 12 v 12. Every match. Stupid people and bad players want to pretend it's some sort of deathmatch thing. It's not. It's two teams. So when you're not playing as part of a team and doing your best to use teamwork you are no different than someone taking a stock mech with single heatsinks and an XL in an Atlas with 10 armor on the side torsos. You're intentionally making bad choices that lead to your failure, because the way the game works you want to use DHS, you want to maximize your armor on the torsos and you want to not run ISXL on all but a handful of builds. Not because other players are bullies who want to ruin your day but because the way the game works anyone who isn't also making incredibly stupid choices will beat you based on the basic game mechanics around heat management and IS XLs dying on a ST loss.

Teamwork is exactly the same thing. People who are not actively working to play as a team are no different than people taking suicide troll builds. They are making bad choices that contribute significantly to their failure, then saying it's everyone elses fault for playing the game as it's designed.

No change in the queues will alter that. Bad players will still be bad, good players will still be good. Quit trying to change the game in the false hope that it will somehow make being bad a winning strategy.

I hate to tell you friend but you cant be more wrong the one thing every MWO player new or old skilled or unskilled wants out of this game is a fun competitive battle of stompy robots and when you have organized teams and a lord of the game that will just allow a small fragment of the community to literally stomp on the other groups fun well you can see what happens players just uninstall and leave little by little untill the game itself dies.

If someone we know was smart they would redesign the game and game modes to reflect each groups ability to have fun on a more even competitive footing as in segregating solo players from organized groups in all game modes then it would be fun for both playing groups and perhaps let the MWO community revive itself do we dare say by retaining more new players longer.

If someone we know keeps on with Solaris and E-sports as MWO'S endgame well it will be a very barren game without players as they silently uninstall and find new games.

The game company and its Lord/Chief never figured out why BattleTech and MechWarrior were so popular for so long and retained such a great group of followers/MechWarriors to this IP before 90% of them bailed MWO right after closed beta.

The truth was and still is (The Community) when you Socially exclude them from design decisions they want to play the game goes down hill plus someone we know listened to the 10% minority IE organized teams what would be best for everyone playing MWO and it has been a total disaster.

MWO as been Socially barren from day1 for players wanting to unite and be part of this game to being totally excluded from game add on items IE maps,game modes,ETC.Plus players being isolated from each other Socially as well.

This game can be fixed and repopulated but not by your ideas of game design for sure my friend

Edited by KingCobra, 14 January 2018 - 07:01 PM.

[RaptorCWS]

KingCobra, on 14 January 2018 - 07:01 PM, said:

I hate to tell you friend but you cant be more wrong the one thing every MWO player new or old skilled or unskilled wants out of this game is a fun competitive battle of stompy robots and when you have organized teams and a lord of the game that will just allow a small fragment of the community to literally stomp on the other groups fun well you can see what happens players just uninstall and leave little by little untill the game itself dies.

If someone we know was smart they would redesign the game and game modes to reflect each groups ability to have fun on a more even competitive footing as in segregating solo players from organized groups in all game modes then it would be fun for both playing groups and perhaps let the MWO community revive itself do we dare say by retaining more new players longer.

If someone we know keeps on with Solaris and E-sports as MWO'S endgame well it will be a very barren game without players as they silently uninstall and find new games.

The game company and its Lord/Chief never figured out why BattleTech and MechWarrior were so popular for so long and retained such a great group of followers/MechWarriors to this IP before 90% of them bailed MWO right after closed beta.

The truth was and still is (The Community) when you Socially exclude them from design decisions they want to play the game goes down hill plus someone we know listened to the 10% minority IE organized teams what would be best for everyone playing MWO and it has been a total disaster.

MWO as been Socially barren from day1 for players wanting to unite and be part of this game to being totally excluded from game add on items IE maps,game modes,ETC.Plus players being isolated from each other Socially as well.

This game can be fixed and repopulated but not by your ideas of game design for sure my friend

tldr
its no fair people play a team game as a team.

[KingCobra]

RaptorCWS, on 14 January 2018 - 07:32 PM, said:

tldr
its no fair people play a team game as a team.

HAHA so many players don't get it do they its not about fair its about players having maximum fun in MWO and paying into the game to keep it fresh and updated and of course the company making a net profit no matter if your a organized team player or solo player.

This company could have made 50x the revenue it has and had 100,000 or more active consistent players if it would have done just a few things different in the last 4 years but it is what it is and MWO survives on Canadian government assistance rather than its net profit.

SO in reality MWO has in fact not satisfied the needs of ether groups organized team players or casuals/solo/pugs.

[Divenity]

KingCobra, on 14 January 2018 - 07:01 PM, said:

I hate to tell you friend but you cant be more wrong the one thing every MWO player new or old skilled or unskilled wants out of this game is a fun competitive battle of stompy robots and when you have organized teams and a lord of the game that will just allow a small fragment of the community to literally stomp on the other groups fun well you can see what happens players just uninstall and leave little by little untill the game itself dies.

If someone we know was smart they would redesign the game and game modes to reflect each groups ability to have fun on a more even competitive footing as in segregating solo players from organized groups in all game modes then it would be fun for both playing groups and perhaps let the MWO community revive itself do we dare say by retaining more new players longer

Pretty much this.

We have two options here:

Make changes that might improve the experience, and make it easier for people new to FP to ease into (as well as just improving the new player experience all around, like giving trial mechs filled out skill trees so they aren't gimped and are actually representative of the mech's capabilities), to better retain new players and attempt to revive the game.

Or

Continue to prop up a system that by almost everyone in here's own words is failing and hemorrhaging players... And watch the game continue to slowly die.

I'm voting for option 1... We may disagree on what needs to change and how, but things do need to change, because the game is dying, and better retention of new players is the only thing that will save it from, or at the very least delay it's eventual shutdown... That is of course if it manages to survive the launch of MW5 at all.

Edited by Divenity, 14 January 2018 - 08:56 PM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

Divenity, on 14 January 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

We have two options here:

We have no options here. Your talking to the wrong people man. Do what Ash said, Go tweet russ, See how that goes for you. .

[MischiefSC]

KingCobra, on 14 January 2018 - 07:01 PM, said:

I hate to tell you friend but you cant be more wrong the one thing every MWO player new or old skilled or unskilled wants out of this game is a fun competitive battle of stompy robots and when you have organized teams and a lord of the game that will just allow a small fragment of the community to literally stomp on the other groups fun well you can see what happens players just uninstall and leave little by little untill the game itself dies.

If someone we know was smart they would redesign the game and game modes to reflect each groups ability to have fun on a more even competitive footing as in segregating solo players from organized groups in all game modes then it would be fun for both playing groups and perhaps let the MWO community revive itself do we dare say by retaining more new players longer.

If someone we know keeps on with Solaris and E-sports as MWO'S endgame well it will be a very barren game without players as they silently uninstall and find new games.

The game company and its Lord/Chief never figured out why BattleTech and MechWarrior were so popular for so long and retained such a great group of followers/MechWarriors to this IP before 90% of them bailed MWO right after closed beta.

The truth was and still is (The Community) when you Socially exclude them from design decisions they want to play the game goes down hill plus someone we know listened to the 10% minority IE organized teams what would be best for everyone playing MWO and it has been a total disaster.

MWO as been Socially barren from day1 for players wanting to unite and be part of this game to being totally excluded from game add on items IE maps,game modes,ETC.Plus players being isolated from each other Socially as well.

This game can be fixed and repopulated but not by your ideas of game design for sure my friend

You're a great example of exactly what I'm talking about.

What you think people want or don't want is irrelevant.

Is each match you're in a team of 12 vs a team of 12?

Yes/no?

There is no such thing as 'solo players'. There's good players and bad players. That's it. Everyone plays without getting in a premade sometimes. It's why there's so many people in QP. However good players understand that since you're on a team of 12, playing as a team is better than playing as a rambo because anyone who uses any teamwork at all will destroy.

Just like you know getting DHS is better than SHS and there's numerous bad ideas on mech designs not doing teamwork is a stupid choice. It's just stupid.

Go play Solaris when it comes out. You'll get destroyed for the same reasons. Good players will make good choices based on the realities of the game and bad players will get constantly, repeatedly destroyed by them.

Excuses are just that. Excuses. Mechs range from 20 to 100 tons. There ballistics, energy weapons and missiles. Weapons have damage, heat, tonnage and slots. Every match save scouting you're in a team of 12 vs another team of 12. In FW you have a drop deck.

People want to play and have shooty stompy robbit fun. We all do. Everyone. The difference is that some people make smart choices and play the game well and some people make bad choices and want to pretend the game isn't what it is.

Teamwork destroys 'solo' gameplay for the same reason DHS are better than SHS. That's how the game is designed. If you don't want to play on a team.... well, understand you're going to get destroyed by those who do. Every time, consistently, for the same reason you'll get destroyed by people with better 1 v 1 mechs in Solaris.

You can't split the queue into 'good players' and 'bad players'. For one thing the population isn't deep enough, for another there's bad players trying to become good players (which is where everyone who is good now came from) and they'll still destroy the people who are dedicatedly bad.

Plenty of new players get retained - by joining groups. Where do you think we all came from? We all play QP too.

So the next question is what if we split the queues and the same players keep losing just as much to the same players. Then what? Do we require people to take stupid builds? Turn off in game communication for people on the same team? What's going to be the next excuse?

[Divenity]

Johnathan Tanner, on 14 January 2018 - 09:19 PM, said:

We have no options here. Your talking to the wrong people man. Do what Ash said, Go tweet russ, See how that goes for you. .

That's wrong.

To get anything changed one must convince at least some of the playerbase first, then bring it to the devs in mass, one person sending a tweet ain't gonna do a damn thing.

[KingCobra]

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2018 - 09:28 PM, said:

You're a great example of exactly what I'm talking about.

What you think people want or don't want is irrelevant.

Is each match you're in a team of 12 vs a team of 12?

Yes/no?

There is no such thing as 'solo players'. There's good players and bad players. That's it. Everyone plays without getting in a premade sometimes. It's why there's so many people in QP. However good players understand that since you're on a team of 12, playing as a team is better than playing as a rambo because anyone who uses any teamwork at all will destroy.

Just like you know getting DHS is better than SHS and there's numerous bad ideas on mech designs not doing teamwork is a stupid choice. It's just stupid.

Go play Solaris when it comes out. You'll get destroyed for the same reasons. Good players will make good choices based on the realities of the game and bad players will get constantly, repeatedly destroyed by them.

Excuses are just that. Excuses. Mechs range from 20 to 100 tons. There ballistics, energy weapons and missiles. Weapons have damage, heat, tonnage and slots. Every match save scouting you're in a team of 12 vs another team of 12. In FW you have a drop deck.

People want to play and have shooty stompy robbit fun. We all do. Everyone. The difference is that some people make smart choices and play the game well and some people make bad choices and want to pretend the game isn't what it is.

Teamwork destroys 'solo' gameplay for the same reason DHS are better than SHS. That's how the game is designed. If you don't want to play on a team.... well, understand you're going to get destroyed by those who do. Every time, consistently, for the same reason you'll get destroyed by people with better 1 v 1 mechs in Solaris.

You can't split the queue into 'good players' and 'bad players'. For one thing the population isn't deep enough, for another there's bad players trying to become good players (which is where everyone who is good now came from) and they'll still destroy the people who are dedicatedly bad.

Plenty of new players get retained - by joining groups. Where do you think we all came from? We all play QP too.

So the next question is what if we split the queues and the same players keep losing just as much to the same players. Then what? Do we require people to take stupid builds? Turn off in game communication for people on the same team? What's going to be the next excuse?

As I said you sir have bad repetitive ideas that in fact have killed this game its not about good or bad players sure that's with every game made the strong will win a higher percentage of matches than those with less skill at the game or new players.

But they solo/new players don't belong in the same games/matches as a seasoned vet on a organized team its like oranges and apples and in some games like MWO they don't mix well so what do you do? Let the more skilled organized players/groups kill the game because they refuse to allow less skilled player to thrive make C-bills get better?

No in MWO it has always been feed the lesser players to the wolfs and personally I was the wolf on a team doing the killing until I could not stand to see so many players leaving the game for what my greed? the need to ruin a game? the answers go on and on as to why the lords of MWO would allow there game there livelihood to go down the drain for what the 10% guiding his discussions?

I guess you only see what you want to see I would suggest like many games do put up a poll in game on things the reaming players want to see happen in MWO to progress in the future and I bet you would be very surprised by there answers to what direction and how the game would like to be played by them.

[RaptorCWS]

the problem is the new players refuse to adapt to the game mode. and no changes to the game mode is going to make them adapt to whatever the new changes are. no matter what lrms are worse than direct fire weapons, 99.99999999% of the time team work will beat unorganized, meta builds are better than lore builds. would it be any different if the people beating you continuously did not have a unit tag next to their name? what would you place the blame on then? group up, make better builds, learn to torso twist to spread damage and you will start winning and having a higher dmg and match score. the whole basis of this thread is, "we dont want to use a core feature of the game mode and we are angry we have to play with people who do."

Maybe the Faction warfare pop up needs to pop up every time you switch to the menu with the words TEAM and COMPETITIVE in bold and 6 font sizes larger. PGI gave a pretty clear warning of what to expect in the game mode and what it is.

[A Headless Chicken]

tl;dr i'm playing a player vs player game which would obviously be competitive but i don't want to be competitive

[RaptorCWS]

Divenity, on 14 January 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

That's wrong.

To get anything changed one must convince at least some of the playerbase first, then bring it to the devs in mass, one person sending a tweet ain't gonna do a damn thing.

the playerbase does not get to decide what goes into a patch.

[Divenity]

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2018 - 09:28 PM, said:

Plenty of new players get retained

Not enough, which is why the game's overall population isn't exactly healthy.

[Divenity]

RaptorCWS, on 14 January 2018 - 09:52 PM, said:

the playerbase does not get to decide what goes into a patch.

You're right, we don't, but the playerbase wanting something can help sway a developer's decision.

Unfortunately right now it seems the playerbase wants the game to stay the same, and the same means hemorrhaging players.

Edited by Divenity, 14 January 2018 - 10:03 PM.