281 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Divenity, on 15 January 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

I love people like you, who come into a thread, show disrespect, and then get upset when they are disrespected right back... It's almost hilarious that you could be so void of logic, I mean really, what did you think would happen?

See you on the battlefield, bub.

That is the pot calling the kettle black.

[Divenity]

TWIAFU, on 15 January 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

That is the pot calling the kettle black.

I'm not the one who showed disrespect first.

[Bud Crue]

Holy crap, did I miss out.
This might be a top 5 finalist for the list of most entertaining threads.

Two comments.
One: OP you seem to lack a good grasp of the rocky history of this mode, those that once were dedicated to playing it and left, and the small but dedicated group of players that remain. The simple fact is that PGI killed the regularly playing community (which by their own assertions was never more than 11 to 17% of the total playing population (see Tuk II for the high point)) with phase 3, and since then has made it clear that they are not interested in actually developing it in a way that might attract appreciable numbers of the player community back to the mode or to entice folks to play it beyond special reward ladened events. As long as this remains the status quo, there is no way to split the queue in the manner you are proposing without effectively killing the mode (via extreme to absurd wait times) for those remaining few players who still do play the mode. No matter the merits of your argument (and frankly, there are not many as illustrated by the 13 pages of posts above), that history and that reality makes splitting the queue a death sentence for the mode; and thus proposing such a split is rather silly (to be charitable) to many who have heard this sort of “idea” a hundred times before.

Two: [REDACTED]

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 17 January 2018 - 08:53 AM.
CoC Violation

[MischiefSC]

Divenity, on 15 January 2018 - 01:21 AM, said:

I honestly don't know where you are getting the impression that I'm not willing to work as a team, I am perfectly capable of and make every effort to do so.The only time I will not work as a team, is if we're playing siege, and my team decides to go sit in our spawn as the attackers and not attack, because at that point I have no team left to play as a team with.


I just don't believe a player should have to always drop as a premade to have a (more reasonable the the current system provides) chance at the match being not so one sided. Thing is, there will always be people who aren't willing to play as a team and there's nothing that we can do about it, like those 10 people in that siege game who defied every effort me and the one other guy there with a brain made to organize them (before you ask about the other guy and why I abandoned him, I didn't, he suicided his mechs into the enemy base without firing a shot, he was just as done with their **** as I was)... Difference is if it's a pug vs a premade, there's a 0% chance a person in that premade isn't gonna play as a team, if it's a pug vs a pug, chances are there will be some on both sides, so it evens out a bit (bit being the key word, meaning not entirely).

I don't want to just go join a premade in the current environment either because rolling over pugs isn't any more fun than being in a pug that doesn't listen or is half LRM boats and gets rolled by a premade, it's unsatisfying and boring from both sides... This is why almost every competitive game in existence separates group queue and solo queue.

What makes you think everyone in a premade follows the calls?

That's not even a certainty in a KCom 12man and Pat Kell runs drops with an iron fist in a barbed wire glove with consistent, helpful and gentle direction. We also often have a couple of pugs, plus with rare exceptions we're usually a mixed team of people who've dropped by to play.

The problem is that people have all these assumptions about what premade teams are like and they're pretty much universally wrong. We don't have 'training drops' or anything like that. We just communicate. That communication also tends to involve what builds work and what doesn't, what strategies work and what doesn't. It's the regular learning and growth that happens when people all work together on something. Shared knowledge and accelerated development.

That's not an advantage directly in the match - it's not something that would change if you broke us all up. That's what you're missing. In the drop there's nothing being on TS does that VOIP doesn't do, other than better voice quality and more entertaining between-match communication which is what keeps up playing and having fun. The advantage that belonging to a group gives you is the same reason that learning a skill from someone already very good at it helps you develop more and faster than just randomly picking up tools at a hardware store and just trying to figure it out does.

Being in the same TS doesn't help me win matches. Having communicated and coordinated and learned what to play and how to play does. Everyone stomping you guys already has those skills and that knowledge. Splitting us up and shuffling us won't change that nor will it change who's on each side. We all play with each others teams regularly. We all know how it's going to play out, what to bring and where to go. We already know how to carry some pugs and help bring them along.

That's what I'm saying. Splitting the queue changes nothing. It's all the same players. Skill distribution doesn't change. People will gravitate to where the fastest matches are. On ComStar we will have rooms for drops and when we see who's on our team we'll all go to that room. All you're doing is forcing people to scramble each match to get in the best TS, or just use VOIP.

Because what you can't do is force good players to play poorly. This is a 12 v 12 team game. Not doing everything you can to facilitate teamwork is playing poorly. You're not going to magically make good players bad. What makes them good isn't being on the same TS - it's knowing how to play as a team and how to get a team together and how to communicate and coordinate and bring good decks and make good decisions in matches. We already have those skills.

The issue is how many people refuse to develop those skills but still think they should win against those who do, or want skill and teamwork in a 12 v 12 team game nerfed as much as possible. Take those players out of FW and put them back in QP.

[Bud Crue]

Divenity, on 15 January 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

In case you missed it, he was, as I stated, being a condescending [REDACTED]. He broke the respect first, so I responded in kind. If he didn't want to be called a condescending [REDACTED], he shouldn't have acted like one, like I said before, that's how it works.

Why is it that when my kids do this sort of "she started it!" "Nuh uh, he started it!" bs, it drives me insane, but reading it here is just amusing to no end?

Please, continue.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 07:17 PM.
Quote Cleanup

[Divenity]

justcallme A S H, on 15 January 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

You've repeatedly called people [REDACTED].

only when they did something to deserve it, like being condescending.

Quote

You've repeatedly avoided answering the tough questions.

Not really, no.

Quote

You've been selective in what you reply to.

So have other people, don't see you bitching at them.

Quote

You're hiding behind an Alt and won't admit it.

Rampant speculation... Do you have even a shred of evidence to support this claim?

Quote

You're at a point where you aren't even using logic as a basis for your point

I feel the same about many of you... The fact that some of you think stomps wouldn't happen less in pug v pug than in premade v pug is astoundingly void of logic.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 07:17 PM.
Quote Cleanup

[B0oN]

Divvi, me lad, just let ´er go, your "proposition" has zero merit and just amuses veterans to no end just because the same balonie has been spewed by underperformers time and time again ... and LO AND BEHOLD ! here we all are with what we have .

Pro-hint for free, because I feel charitable today : get tougher in the game, especially mechlab-fu is critically important to not only YOUR experience but also the team´s performance .

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 07:18 PM.
Quote Cleanup and therefore removed the first part of the post.

[Divenity]

Bud Crue, on 15 January 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

Why is it that when my kids do this sort of "she started it!" "Nuh uh, he started it!" bs, it drives me insane, but reading it here is just amusing to no end?

Please, continue.

Difference is here, there is evidence, there is no "claiming" one person or the other started it, there is a clear chain of replies and trail of who did what first. They, in fact, in actuality, started being disrespectful to me before I said anything to them... Tell me, why I should reply to their disrespect respectfully?

I will treat others the way I want to be treated until they treat me like ****, then I'll treat that person like ****, because if they treat me that way, I will just assume that's how they want to be treated and indulge them.

Edited by Divenity, 15 January 2018 - 02:25 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Divenity, on 15 January 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

Difference is here, there is evidence, there is no "claiming" one person or the other started it, there is a clear chain of replies and trail of who did what first. They, in fact, in actuality, started being disrespectful to me before I said anything to them... Tell me, why I should reply to their disrespect respectfully?

YES! Thats right, you set em straight.
This is high level entertai...I mean a totally constructive thread about serious topics regarding game play improvements and faction play development. By all means continue.

Edited by Bud Crue, 15 January 2018 - 02:24 PM.

[KingCobra]

Divenity, on 15 January 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

Difference is here, there is evidence, there is no "claiming" one person or the other started it, there is a clear chain of replies and trail of who did what first. They, in fact, in actuality, started being disrespectful to me before I said anything to them... Tell me, why I should reply to their disrespect respectfully?

I will treat others the way I want to be treated until they treat me like ****, then I'll treat that person like ****, because if they treat me that way, I will just assume that's how they want to be treated and indulge them.

Take it all in stride friend now you know exactly how the Trolls in this forum work and who they are and how they derail topics and posts and have players that try to help with any suggestions banned.

[r4zen]

justcallme A S H, on 15 January 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

You're hiding behind an Alt and won't admit it.

Divenity, on 15 January 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

Rampant speculation... Do you have even a shred of evidence to support this claim?

I mean, you're not denying it, you little pointy hatted blue thing.

[justcallme A S H]

Divenity, on 15 January 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

Rampant speculation... Do you have even a shred of evidence to support this claim?

Well given you have nothing to back up the fact queue splitting will work despite the well know / massive population issues that are well documented... If you can speculate. So can I. Only seems fair.

So my speculation is this:

How does a new player of less than 30 days suddenly 'crack' how MWO works. In 192 games achieves an avg match score of 300 and a KDR of 2.0. No one is that good in their first 100 games unless you are next level FPS shooter good.

And well, if you were that good, you wouldn't have a 300 match score average. It would be higher, same with a KDR.

So you are indeed a mid level player on a Alt farming T5/T4s (albeit average at best with only a 300 avg). There really is no speculation needed, you give yourself away by simply playing the game. Plus this isn't the first time an Alt acc user has come on here to argue/troll like you are here. You ain't fooling anyone but yourself.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 16 January 2018 - 04:09 AM.

[ccrider]

Guys, this topic is super cereal, please keep it on topic.








I'm sorry, I just can't keep a straight face.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 07:31 PM.
Reference removed that doesn't work without the context... which was removed.

[TWIAFU]

Divenity, on 15 January 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

In case you missed it, he was, as I stated, being a condescending [REDACTED]. He broke the respect first, so I responded in kind. If he didn't want to be called a condescending [REDACTED], he shouldn't have acted like one, like I said before, that's how it works.

Then in that case;

Then you should stop being an [REDACTED] yourself, show some respect to others to gain some yourself, sometimes your best course of action is to STFU and listen to those with the experience you lack, stop playing the poor me victim card BS, put on your big boy pants, face fact you got called out on your BS and shown to have no experience to make suggestion to change how we/I play.

And that is how it works.


Your going to go far blaming others for how you act.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 07:32 PM.
Quote Cleanup

[KingCobra]

Grothlamarath, on 15 January 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

So I'm one of those guys that likes to do both - group drop and solo drop in FP. I like getting rolled by tier 1 FP teams. I love the no matchmaker.

Why?

I learn to be a better player.

Faction play is not the same kinda beast quick play is. 90% of the time you can go ask anyone from the group that just rolled you in faction for advice, and they'll give it to you. Not the same with quick play; there, your lucky if they even respond. Faction is a gentleman's game - quick play is an egotistic's game. Even at the height of the games population we didn't have enough for split faction queues, and sadly never will.

Back in the day, the QP group queue was often called 'search warrior online'. You could literally spend hours searching for a match. When they split the queues before, we went back to that. Your idea of split queues also helps LOWER the overall game population. How do you wonder? If you have 11 people who want to group and play TOGETHER, well one of them has to sit out. That person is most likely to go play something else then. An if there isn't a 2 person group out there...those 10 other people are only going to waste so much time before then exit the game and go play something else also.

Now listen closely to this....
YOUR NOT LOSING OR GETTING ROLLED BECAUSE OF PRE-MADES. YOUR LOSING THE GAME IN THE MECHLAB. LEARN HOW TO BUILD BETTER MECHS, GET BETTER MECHS, AND LEARN HOW TO USE THOSE MECHS.

Most of what you say is true and helpful but it will not fix MWO so it retains more players only separating all the queues in MWO will fix this game and give new players a chance to have some fun get hooked on the game play and pay into the game so PGI does not shut down the servers.

P.S anyone reading this topic that feels certain people are derailing this topic please feel free to report them.

Edited by KingCobra, 16 January 2018 - 10:22 AM.

[Divenity]

justcallme A S H, on 16 January 2018 - 03:09 AM, said:

If you can speculate. So can I. Only seems fair.

fair enough

Quote

How does a new player of less than 30 days suddenly 'crack' how MWO works. In 192 games achieves an avg match score of 300 and a KDR of 2.0. No one is that good in their first 100 games unless you are next level FPS shooter good.

Well, I do have an ivi k/d of 4.7 in PS2 so, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not that that is super high for that game, considering some people just farm zergs and get k/ds in the double digits.

Quote

And well, if you were that good, you wouldn't have a 300 match score average. It would be higher, same with a KDR.

Mechwarrior isn't the average FPS, you know... I haven't played a mechwarrior game since MW4 was new, it took me a while to get the hang of it again and find builds that I did well with, going many of those games with 0 kills on trial mechs(let's not forget how gimped trial mechs are with no skill trees, shall we?), now I usually get 3-4 before I die, so, going up for now.

Quote

So you are indeed a mid level player on a Alt farming T5/T4s (albeit average at best with only a 300 avg). There really is no speculation needed, you give yourself away by simply playing the game. Plus this isn't the first time an Alt acc user has come on here to argue/troll like you are here. You ain't fooling anyone but yourself.

Nope, still speculation.

TWIAFU, on 16 January 2018 - 09:30 AM, said:

show some respect to others to gain some yourself,

I showed respect, they gave me none, so they lost mine.




The fact that you are all now intentionally trying to lock a thread you disagree with is truly pathetic.

Edited by Divenity, 16 January 2018 - 11:29 AM.

[KingCobra]

Divenity, on 16 January 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

fair enough

Well, I do have an ivi k/d of 4.7 in PS2 so, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not that that is super high for that game, considering some people just farm zergs and get k/ds in the double digits.



Mechwarrior isn't the average FPS, you know... I haven't played a mechwarrior game since MW4 was new, it took me a while to get the hang of it again and find builds that I did well with, going many of those games with 0 kills on trial mechs(let's not forget how gimped trial mechs are with no skill trees, shall we?), now I usually get 3-4 before I die, so, going up for now.



Nope, still speculation.


I showed respect, they gave me none, so they lost mine.




The fact that you are all now intentionally trying to lock a thread you disagree with is truly pathetic.

just report them and keep on topic the mods will deal with them.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 07:35 PM.
Removed the CoC Violation

[Divenity]

KingCobra, on 16 January 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

just report them and keep on topic the mods will deal with them.

Oh, I am, I am.

tker 669, on 16 January 2018 - 11:35 AM, said:

People have tried to engage with you

And acted like condescending [REDACTED] from the very beginning, which is childish behavior in itself, before I exhibited any of what you are claiming is childish behavior...

Quote

You want to hide behind an alt

Still speculation.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 07:35 PM.
Quote Cleanup + CoC Violation

[MischiefSC]

New players should not be in FW. That's been made clear repeatedly. First and foremost in the warning you get when you try to get into FW. FW should not be balanced towards new players and casuals, we already have QP for that. It already has a matchmaker.

Put FW content in QP for new players and casual pugs to play the maps/modes/respawns with the protection of a matchmaker.

'yes but what about the casuals and new players who want to play FW' then they need to get good enough to do so. We already make group queue a total shitshow trying to make it friendly to new players and casuals and that failed completely, doing the exact opposite. Wanting to **** up FW in the same vein won't help them. At all.

Splitting queues will do nothing for new players and casual pugs in FW. It's designed around teamwork, people who don't do teamwork will always be failures in FW. Nothing you do with the queues will change that. As has been explained.

[KingCobra]

MischiefSC, on 16 January 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

New players should not be in FW. That's been made clear repeatedly. First and foremost in the warning you get when you try to get into FW. FW should not be balanced towards new players and casuals, we already have QP for that. It already has a matchmaker.

Put FW content in QP for new players and casual pugs to play the maps/modes/respawns with the protection of a matchmaker.

'yes but what about the casuals and new players who want to play FW' then they need to get good enough to do so. We already make group queue a total shitshow trying to make it friendly to new players and casuals and that failed completely, doing the exact opposite. Wanting to **** up FW in the same vein won't help them. At all.

Splitting queues will do nothing for new players and casual pugs in FW. It's designed around teamwork, people who don't do teamwork will always be failures in FW. Nothing you do with the queues will change that. As has been explained.

And your right new players pugs/casuals should not be in the same FP as organized skilled teams they should have there own ques to play in that's the point of this thread.And you know as well as I do and many others the reason they even come into the FP queue is
#1 mechbays and faction rewards
#2 board-um with QP

And the lords of MWO could have fixed this issue long ago before we lost so many valuable players to this game.