108 replies to this topic

[Dirt Bag Don]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

Nova can have 14 energy if you swap the pods around. Storm Crow up to 13.

If you get the nova hero side torso that has 2 energy then it can have 15 energy with pod mixing (I have that build actually)

Edited by Dirt Bag Don, 22 January 2018 - 07:59 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

pretty funny to talk of "average speed 20 ton mech" when there is only 1 other 20 ton mech in the game

but most 25-30 ton mechs are much faster

so its safe to say the piranha goes below average for speed

the point being, it doesnt go nearly fast enough to make it difficult to hit like the locust

piranhas will be much easier to kill than locusts

people are overreacting. its going to be a glass cannon.

Edited by Khobai, 22 January 2018 - 08:37 AM.

[Mechteric]

My thoughts: Streakboats are going to eat the Piranha's sack lunch

[Der Geisterbaer]

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

but most 25-30 ton mechs are much faster

So it should be no problem for you to actually name them, including their allegedly higher speeds ...

[El Bandito]

jacobbeach, on 22 January 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

I want prh cockpit and standing item art...
Ccooommmmeeeee ooonnn

SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Edited by El Bandito, 22 January 2018 - 09:35 AM.

[Khobai]

I love the visibility of that cockpit.

the locust cockpit makes it unpilotable IMO

Quote

So it should be no problem for you to actually name them, including their allegedly higher speeds ...

Locust
Commando
Spider
Javelin
Osiris
etc...

all go faster

the piranha is really not that fast. 170kph is what I consider fast for a 20-30 tonner.

dunno why you find that so incredulous to believe

but the piranha is not going to be as hard to hit compared to other tiny mechs

Edited by Khobai, 22 January 2018 - 09:43 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

Locust
Commando
Spider
Javelin
Osiris
etc...
all go faster

In theory ... now provide pratical builds that actually go faster and name their payload ...

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

the piranha is really not that fast. 170kph is what I consider fast for a 20-30 tonner.

So pretty much highest engine plus skill nodes only ... And here I thought you were talking about "average speed" ~laugh~

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

dunno why you find that so incredulous to believe

Because "average speed" typically refers to what? Ah yes, actual "averages" ...

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

but the piranha is not going to be as hard to hit compared to other tiny mechs

Yet another one of your interesting claims ~laugh~

[Khobai]

Quote

In theory ... now provide pratical builds that actually go faster and name their payload ...

I dont need to. everyone knows fast lights go fast except for you it seems.

most people dont design their locusts to go slower than max speed.

Quote

So pretty much highest engine plus skill nodes only ... And here I thought you were talking about "average speed" ~laugh~

there is generally no reason not to max out speed on a light since speed is what keeps lights alive.

Quote

Because "average speed" typically refers to what? Ah yes, actual "averages" ...

yes and the piranha goes slower than the average speed for 20 tonners

if you take the max speed of the locust and add the max speed of the pirahna and divide by 2, the piranha goes slower than that. the locust is the only other 20 tonner in the game so thats our only frame of reference. but if other theoretical 20 tonners like the flea and dasher were in the game, the piranha would be slower than they are too. compared to the other 20 tonners in battletech (both the ones in MWO and not in MWO), its slower.

its also slower than a lot of heavier lights too. so yeah id say the piranha is not exactly fast for its tonnage. its not slow either though.

Edited by Khobai, 22 January 2018 - 10:21 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

but most 25-30 ton mechs are much faster

Are you sure?

Piranha max speed (w/o any skill nodes) = 145.8kph

Faster 'mechs
Locust (7/7) 153.9kph
Commando (4/5) 155.5kph
Javelin (2/6) 153.9kph
Osiris (6/6) 153.9kph
Spider (2/4) 153.9kph

So that's 21 'mechs that are faster than a Piranha

Let's see what isn't faster than a Piranha
Commando (1/5) 136.1kph
Javelin (4/6) 137.7kph
Spider (1/4) 145.8kph
Spider (1/4) 137.7kph
Urbanmech (4/4) 97.2kph
Mist Lynx (7/7) 113.4kph
Arctic Cheetah (6/6) 129.6kph
Kit Fox (6/6) 97.2kph

That's 30 'mechs that aren't as fast as a Piranha.

21 faster than a Piranha, 30 not as fast as a Piranha.

I guess you could argue on a chassis-wide basis instead;
4 are faster than the Piranha (Locust, Commando, Osiris, Spider)
5 are not faster (Javelin, Urbanmech, Mist Lynx, Arctic Cheetah, Kit Fox)

Either way, looks like the Piranha is, in fact, faster than your average 20-30 tonner.

[Khobai]

Quote

Are you sure?

i wasnt counting omnimechs since their engines are locked and they cant choose to go faster

because if light omnimechs could take bigger engines they would

I mean light mechs like the cougar that are deliberately gimped on speed shouldnt be counted anyway. slow lights are epic fail in this game. lights that go less than 130kph serve no real purpose.

so ill amend my statement. the locust's top speed is not as high as the top speed of other 20 ton mechs or some 25-30 ton mechs.

and that is true. its not particularly fast for its tonnage compared to the locust, commando, spider, etc... its fairly middle of the pack for lights that actually go the proper speed lights should go (i.e. not less than 130kph).

Edited by Khobai, 22 January 2018 - 10:38 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

I dont need to. everyone knows fast lights go fast except for you it seems.

Humor me ... because this isn't about how fast "fast light mechs" can go, but your claim about the averages of said light mechs.

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

most people dont design their locusts to go slower than max speed.

Really? Now I just wonder if you really think that the Locust builds - where you still reasonably often see ones with 180 engine ratings - somehow define the "average".

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

there is generally no reason not to max out speed on a light since speed is what keeps lights alive.

~hmhmhm~ 2SPL, 2MPL, ECM Pirates' Banes with XL170 or 2SPL, 2MPL, ECM Pirates' Banes with XL180 or even 4MPL Pirates' Banes are just figments of my imagination. And there's still that other "lot" of lights, remember?

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

yes and the piranha goes slower than the average speed for 20 tonners

Considering that your initial claim was about lights in general and then trying to limit to the only other 20t mech in the game being intellectually dishonest I'm quite amused by your attempts of justifying your claims.

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

if you take the max speed of the locust and add the max speed of the pirahna and divide by 2, the piranha goes slower than that. the locust is the only other 20 tonner in the game so thats our only frame of reference.

But unfortunately that's not the actual "average" for the builds that are in use - particularly not for lights in general as per your original claim

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

but if other theoretical 20 tonners like the flea and dasher were in the game, the piranha would be slower than they are too. compared to the other 20 tonners in battletech (both the ones in MWO and not in MWO), its slower.

And your intellectual dishonesty continues ~smile~

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

its also slower than a lot of heavier lights too. so yeah id say the piranha is not exactly fast for its tonnage. its not slow either though.

Which is something completely different than making this claim: I cant see just one being scary. because its still just a below average speed 20 ton mech that probably wont have any structure quirks except for its legs, just because all lights get quirks on their legs.

You might have wanted to limit it to 20t mechs there already (as intellectually dishonest as that still is) but the semantics of this particular sentence don't limit the average speed part to just other 20t mechs but includes all lights in general.

[Asym]

Sales gimmick.... Average functionality; cool concept equals immediate mech sale..... I wonder what mech is next since the Fafnir has been advertised??? Always a gimmick.

[Hobbles v]

Jay Leon Hart, on 22 January 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

Are you sure?

Piranha max speed (w/o any skill nodes) = 145.8kph

Faster 'mechs
Locust (7/7) 153.9kph
Commando (4/5) 155.5kph
Javelin (2/6) 153.9kph
Osiris (6/6) 153.9kph
Spider (2/4) 153.9kph

So that's 21 'mechs that are faster than a Piranha

Let's see what isn't faster than a Piranha
Commando (1/5) 136.1kph
Javelin (4/6) 137.7kph
Spider (1/4) 145.8kph
Spider (1/4) 137.7kph
Urbanmech (4/4) 97.2kph
Mist Lynx (7/7) 113.4kph
Arctic Cheetah (6/6) 129.6kph
Kit Fox (6/6) 97.2kph

That's 30 'mechs that aren't as fast as a Piranha.

21 faster than a Piranha, 30 not as fast as a Piranha.

I guess you could argue on a chassis-wide basis instead;
4 are faster than the Piranha (Locust, Commando, Osiris, Spider)
5 are not faster (Javelin, Urbanmech, Mist Lynx, Arctic Cheetah, Kit Fox)

Either way, looks like the Piranha is, in fact, faster than your average 20-30 tonner.

To add to this. Its faster than any of the other clan options when considering tonnage slots in faction play. I think it will be better than the machine gun myst lynx and arctic cheetah, but not as good as a laser cheetah combat wise. They will be the kings of dedicated cappers in conquest for clans.

Edited by Hobbles v, 22 January 2018 - 11:38 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Asym, on 22 January 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

Sales gimmick.... Average functionality; cool concept equals immediate mech sale..... I wonder what mech is next since the Fafnir has been advertised??? Always a gimmick.

Piranha? 2nd most requested Clan Light 'mech, behind the one PGI is on record saying they "can not implement with the current engine" (or words to that effect).

Fafnir? Most requested IS Assault 'mech since early last year.

MG boat & HGauss gimmicks? Sure. Giving the players (& payers) what they want? Indeed.

[Seranov]

I want mixtech so I can find a way to put a Heavy Gauss on a Piranha. No, I don't care that I only have two tons for ammo and an engine.

[Leone]

I've been wanting this mech for years!

Glad to finally have it.

~Leone.

[Khobai]

Quote

Humor me ... because this isn't about how fast "fast light mechs" can go, but your claim about the averages of said light mechs.

no true light mech should go slow though.

youre better off just playing a medium than a slow light. you go the same speed but actually have armor.

the whole purpose of lights is to go fast. if a light cant go fast there is no real point to it existing. I have fun playing my kitfox anyway, but its still an utter failure as a light mech.

I dont consider slow lights to be part of the "average" because I dont consider them to actually be lights

Slow lights are functionally more like mediums without armor. They have far more in common with mediums than true lights both in how they perform and how theyre played.

So when I meant "average" I meant only true lights that go 130kph+. Not abysmally slow lights like the cougar that I dont even consider to be true light mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 22 January 2018 - 01:22 PM.

[LordNothing]

crazy machine gun boats are going to be less effective than people think they are. a dedicated mg boat is going to either get lucky and have team mates punch holes in armor or they wont, and their results will depend on that. more practical players are going to use the laser+mg builds instead and the results wont be too different from current 6-8 mg builds.

the big issue is going to be ammunition. like any other light its going to be very limited and ammo capacity nodes are going to be pretty much mandatory.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

no true light mech should go slow though.

So I take it that you can't back up your claim about the averages.

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

the whole purpose of lights is to go fast. if a light cant go fast there is no real point to it existing.

Now this begs the question if "fast" actually means "at maximum possible speed that the chassis allows"? And I have this feeling that the "average light" mech and their pilots are not in agreement with your claims

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

I dont consider slow lights to be part of the "average" because I dont consider them to actually be lights

So by all means you're using your own definitions of both "average" and "fast". Let's just say that this makes a discussion futile even before it starts. Just as your flipp-flopping where the Piranha is "OP" one second and then "measly" the next you're pretty much moving the goal posts regularly to suit your (then) current claim. ~shrug~

Khobai, on 22 January 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

So when I meant "average" I meant only true lights that go 130kph+. Not abysmally slow lights like the cougar that I dont even consider to be true light mechs.

Even with this new goal post of 130+: Where are your numbers on those "averages" that prove that with base speed of 145.8 the Piranha is actually "under average"?

[Andi Nagasia]

Jay Leon Hart, on 22 January 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

Piranha? 2nd most requested Clan Light 'mech, behind the one PGI is on record saying they "can not implement with the current engine" (or words to that effect).

Fafnir? Most requested IS Assault 'mech since early last year.

MG boat & HGauss gimmicks? Sure. Giving the players (& payers) what they want? Indeed.

it seems like PGI is using Gas's (Next Mech Pack Poll!) as abit of a guide on what players are asking for,