467 replies to this topic

[Tier5ForLife]

Well, it is Madden NFL season time. In franchise mode, every game counts.

Nothing counts here. There is no goal, no purpose rather than defeat others and then that match is forgotten forever.

So, which one to play today? The one with clear set rules, a structured season, a commish you can talk to. "SIM" rules so no one acts like a ****. The one that I have a game against a friend from Britain at 4:00 pm EST today that could mean a playoff spot? The game that is well advertised and has many too many players? The one that automatically uploads and plays live on Twitch and records each game in case the Commish needs to look at it because of a dispute? Where playing "lobby ball" is considered cheese?

Or this game?

[Kynesis]

Sjorpha, on 30 August 2018 - 05:13 PM, said:

Frankly I'm a lot more concerned about why old players quit

Old players quit for the reasons they've discussed at length for years.

[Khobai]

S O L A I S, on 31 August 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

As well every effort so far to dumb down CW for the quick play crowd has failed and made the people who you want to attract to the mode (ie, team orientated) leave in droves.

how has it failed? if team oriented players are leaving in droves thats a success towards dumbing down CW for the quickplay crowd.

if all the team oriented players just quit CW the quickplay crowd would suddenly get their greatest wish of not having to fight premades in CW anymore.

all solo/pugs ever wanted was their own queue to play in. barring that a properly working matchmaker. but all the team-oriented players quitting in droves, while the least ideal solution, also serves the same end goal.

its good that PGI is finally trying the matchmaker thing, but why did it take 4 years, and loss of half the player base to get us here? lolol. I still have my doubts that this matchmaker thing is even going to work. Ill believe it when i see it.

Edited by Khobai, 01 September 2018 - 11:36 PM.

[Iron Buccaneer]

S O L A I S, on 31 August 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

What really is Mortal's point though?

He gets mad when his unit is beat by the guys I play with. The group he is accusing of ruining the game and posting snips of was mine. That night there were a few good units that put up decent fights. We had the group in open LFG as well and brought along pure pugs as well as average players as well. So we are talking about someone who actually runs around in twelve man's, fighting pugs and trying to avoid the more skilled units, then complaining when he is pugging that our team with a handful of good players is unfair.

So is it really reasonable for me to not play with the people I am friends with and take loses to his unit or MS/Kcom? How would I even measure reasonably when my team has reached too good status? Hint, as much as it pains me to say, we sometimes get beat.

As well every effort so far to dumb down CW for the quick play crowd has failed and made the people who you want to attract to the mode (ie, team orientated) leave in droves.

Pretty sure it was the highly overpowered Long Tom and the devs unwillingness to address it that caused a lot of players to leave in droves. Then phase 4 cut all the faction identity and player agency out with the one bucket system and most of the hardcore lore players quit. What we have left are the players who only cared about getting siege drops more quickly and they are bitter because they have to slog through matches they don't like to get to them. At least they are making some positive changes. I just hope they can turn it around.

[S O L A I S]

Khobai, on 01 September 2018 - 11:25 PM, said:

how has it failed? if team oriented players are leaving in droves thats a success towards dumbing down CW for the quickplay crowd.

if all the team oriented players just quit CW the quickplay crowd would suddenly get their greatest wish of not having to fight premades in CW anymore.

all solo/pugs ever wanted was their own queue to play in. barring that a properly working matchmaker. but all the team-oriented players quitting in droves, while the least ideal solution, also serves the same end goal.

its good that PGI is finally trying the matchmaker thing, but why did it take 4 years, and loss of half the player base to get us here? lolol. I still have my doubts that this matchmaker thing is even going to work. Ill believe it when i see it.

There is quick play for those players. It makes zero sense to cater or dumb down the mode for them. They won't stay and not every team oriented player will leave. It only means a smaller of circle of people dominating the mode.

Again even bad units wipe out pugs. So making changes for players who ultimately will not stick around while driving away the base that is around is just silly.

Matchmaker? Sounds like by their description, will prioritize high ssr players to fill teams. Good for teams looking to not have to deal with bad pugs, bad for bad pugs and new people trying to learn.

[Khobai]

S O L A I S, on 02 September 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

There is quick play for those players. It makes zero sense to cater or dumb down the mode for them. They won't stay and not every team oriented player will leave. It only means a smaller of circle of people dominating the mode.

Then why are quickplay players playing CW? Obviously because they dont want to do just quickplay... CW should be equally available to everyone.

Its ridiculous for group players to try and shut quickplay players out of CW with the weak excuse that CW isnt for them. Thats not going to happen. Because soloplayers make up 90% of the player population based on PGI's statistics (and at least half of the other 10% is small 2-man groups, so big groups are at most 5% of the total population)

Even PGI recognizes that which is why theyre attempting to make CW more friendly for solo players by forcing groups to encounter eachother more. There arnt enough teams left for CW to survive without pugs and they need to get more pugs playing CW. And PGI is a company never does anything preemptively and always waits to take action until its absolutely necessary or already too late, so you know theres a problem.

CW needs to adapt to the changing times. Like you said, team players are leaving in droves. PGI has not done a great job of cultivating the team/unit aspect of this game. Plus a lot of those players are leaving/retiring and for some reason you have more infighting and power struggles going on in units now than ever. Whether you like it or not pugs are the future of the game, so it makes perfect sense to cater to them IMO

Best thing PGI could do for CW is get rid of the stranglehold that elite units/groups have on the gamemode and open it up for everybody. The reality is CW can survive without units/groups. Theres more than enough pugs to fill teams. Some units/group players just cant handle the fact theyre not really needed anymore... youre clinging on to a dying aspect of the game lol.

Edited by Khobai, 02 September 2018 - 09:40 PM.

[S O L A I S]

Khobai, on 02 September 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

Then why are quickplay players playing CW? Obviously because they dont want to do just quickplay... CW should be equally available to everyone.

Its ridiculous for group players to try and shut quickplay players out of CW with the weak excuse that CW isnt for them. Thats not going to happen. Because soloplayers make up 90% of the player population based on PGI's statistics (and at least half of the other 10% is small 2-man groups, so big groups are at most 5% of the total population)

Even PGI recognizes that which is why theyre attempting to make CW more friendly for solo players by forcing groups to encounter eachother more. There arnt enough teams left for CW to survive without pugs and they need to get more pugs playing CW. And PGI is a company never does anything preemptively and always waits to take action until its absolutely necessary or already too late, so you know theres a problem.

CW needs to adapt to the changing times. Like you said, team players are leaving in droves. PGI has not done a great job of cultivating the team/unit aspect of this game. Plus a lot of those players are leaving/retiring and for some reason you have more infighting and power struggles going on in units now than ever. Whether you like it or not pugs are the future of the game, so it makes perfect sense to cater to them IMO

Best thing PGI could do for CW is get rid of the stranglehold that elite units/groups have on the gamemode and open it up for everybody. The reality is CW can survive without units/groups. Theres more than enough pugs to fill teams. Some units/group players just cant handle the fact theyre not really needed anymore... youre clinging on to a dying aspect of the game lol.

Ah there it is. Wanting to play a team game organised instead of pick up style is elitist.

As to why people are playing CW, the answer is obvious. The rewards. Since you are a super soloist you also can only think in those very, very limited terms. The rewards and swag created enough buzz that guess what, veterans and old CW groups have come back as well. Which without a doubt you hadn't even considered.

228's are running around in CW right now, and ran into a bunch of SA. Some groups that I understand are group queue regulars I'd not heard of before as well.

So while there certainly is an uptick of solo pugs also joining in, there is a massive spike in groups/teams as well.

Your attitude is also bizarre. Groups are not shutting anybody out. Design and other issues such as low population are the culprits and can't be dismissed. The population is not responsible (for the most part which I will address later), for mismatched games in CW any more than they are for the stomps regularly occurring in quick play.

Now where you and I might find common ground is that it is a great thing to make it so a pug team doesn't face a premade. Certainly my end goals would be achievable as a pro group guy if pugs and especially new players got a chance to enjoy the mode in a more even environment. Fresh blood, or more bodies given a chance to perhaps get hooked on having a drop deck and extended battle time.

There's going to be problems though. Look through the proposed system so far. Pugs are the last on rung here. Still focused on teams matched against other teams first, and filling any incomplete teams with the highest ssr players available. Great for teams, who will benefit in getting the best of what's available, not great for new guys though. Shouldn't teams overall ssr be considered here so that really good teams like the ones I run can teach new folks? Even just to make team on team fair it might be a bit of a mess if each team just simply gets the best of who's available. Really strong six man's can beat a good number of the units running around right now.

As well it is all good and dandy to match up teams against each other first, but they have to be in the queue first right? Currently there are a lot of units that avoid playing good groups. So groups that do not want competition will simply wait until groups they are avoiding are matched up and then launch. Unless this plan addresses this and takes steps to make avoiding more difficult by making friend list sniping harder for instance, nothing will work.

Aaaaand clinging to the game? Everybody is. Units are dead, they have been that way for a while. BCMC and Evil are not out recruiting and trying to grow our respective organizations.... Even most of our member are tagged up with some randomness or whatever. Pugs aren't the future, we are past having one.

Finally too you are pointing out that 90% of the pop are quick play pugs. This is true. What isn't true is that all of those folks want to play CW. No matter what is done, the majority of players are going to still play the mode that caters to the casual player. With or without groups, CW requires more effort and who knows how big of a percentage of that 90 would be interested in CW. PGI knows and understands this, which is why the mode was focused on people being invested and of those the vast majority of those can be in no way described as elite. In fact there are at best only three 'elite' groups running around at any one time so again bizarre you are thinking that around 36 guys have a stranglehold on the game.

[Horseman]

Khobai, on 02 September 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

Then why are quickplay players playing CW? Obviously because they dont want to do just quickplay... CW should be equally available to everyone.

There's a difference between "being available to anyone" and being dumbed down to cater to a crowd that refuses to get a handle on the mode to begin with.
It's not that complex... enable the freaking voice comms, prepare mechs for a couple different maps and modes, then use them to fill your drop decks based on map/mode or what's requested by your caller. And don't reinforce a dying wave, that just feeds enemy team with easy kills.

Quote

Its ridiculous for group players to try and shut quickplay players out of CW with the weak excuse that CW isnt for them.

CW isn't quick play, and the sooner those players realize this the sooner they can make the choice to either stay in QP or adapt their attitude and strategies to FP (shockingly innovative, I know).

Edited by Horseman, 03 September 2018 - 03:02 AM.

[Star Dust]

There must be something like 400 or 500ish mechs available in the game.

Following trainee matches players can earn 1... maybe 2? (not sure, been far too long). Anyone else see a problem with that? Would it hurt for them to have enough for near a drop deck and scouting?

[K O Z A K]

raarz, on 04 September 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

There must be something like 400 or 500ish mechs available in the game.

Following trainee matches players can earn 1... maybe 2? (not sure, been far too long). Anyone else see a problem with that? Would it hurt for them to have enough for near a drop deck and scouting?

it's crazy what's expected from new players to get on a remotely level playing field. If I had to start from scratch today no chance in living hell I'd spend the amount of time and effort to grind out even the basics needed for FP. Honestly given the reality of the game's state today it would really help to drastically increase the startup bonuses and add a big gxp pool, and a FP academy. Realistically to match what the veterans have on the field in any given drop you need to have 4+ fully built, skilled decks, that's hundreds of millions of c-bills (or in the area of $500, lol) and god knows how much XP grind, and that's PER SIDE, how can you possibly expect most new players to be able to get to that before getting bored with the game without ever getting to even enjoy it's "end game" as it's meant to be played?

[Horseman]

Realistically, if you grind events it can be done without much difficulty.

If a player doesn't have enough mechs to fill a single drop deck, they're unlikely to have acquired the experience and skill to use that deck effectively to begin with.

Edited by Horseman, 04 September 2018 - 09:25 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Hazeclaw, on 04 September 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

it's crazy what's expected from new players to get on a remotely level playing field. If I had to start from scratch today no chance in living hell I'd spend the amount of time and effort to grind out even the basics needed for FP. Honestly given the reality of the game's state today it would really help to drastically increase the startup bonuses and add a big gxp pool, and a FP academy. Realistically to match what the veterans have on the field in any given drop you need to have 4+ fully built, skilled decks, that's hundreds of millions of c-bills (or in the area of $500, lol) and god knows how much XP grind, and that's PER SIDE, how can you possibly expect most new players to be able to get to that before getting bored with the game without ever getting to even enjoy it's "end game" as it's meant to be played?

I have 3 alt accounts I used to play more often.

Now I don't because the gap between them and my main account is just too big to bother, both in available choices and performance of the mechs I have.

[Iron Buccaneer]

MischiefSC, on 04 September 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

I have 3 alt accounts I used to play more often.

Now I don't because the gap between them and my main account is just too big to bother, both in available choices and performance of the mechs I have.

It's really tough to build a drop deck from scratch these day and you really need more than two to be ready for the different maps. have a lot of alts. More than 3. More than 3x3 and I feel a lot of things about finishing out mechs for quick play or faction play is harder.

[Teonas]

raarz, on 04 September 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

There must be something like 400 or 500ish mechs available in the game.

Following trainee matches players can earn 1... maybe 2? (not sure, been far too long). Anyone else see a problem with that? Would it hurt for them to have enough for near a drop deck and scouting?

That would not be enough because they must go for one side - and who cares about that in the beginning. FTR due to sales I had 4 after trainee. But even with 16 now the better IS deck underperforms on LRM maps.

Anyhow, I think this discussion is heading in the right direction currently.

Edited by Teonas, 05 September 2018 - 12:14 AM.

[Tier5ForLife]

raarz, on 04 September 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

There must be something like 400 or 500ish mechs available in the game.

Following trainee matches players can earn 1... maybe 2? (not sure, been far too long). Anyone else see a problem with that? Would it hurt for them to have enough for near a drop deck and scouting?

I've said that PGI should sell a set of mechs, one from each weight class. Instead of 10-15 old lights or mediums etc.

Horseman, on 04 September 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

Realistically, if you grind events it can be done without much difficulty.

If a player doesn't have enough mechs to fill a single drop deck, they're unlikely to have acquired the experience and skill to use that deck effectively to begin with.

I started during an FW event. I did not know what quickplay was for a long time. And I did a lot of sieges (the only FW game at the time) with trial mechs.

[Iron Buccaneer]

raarz, on 04 September 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

There must be something like 400 or 500ish mechs available in the game.

Following trainee matches players can earn 1... maybe 2? (not sure, been far too long). Anyone else see a problem with that? Would it hurt for them to have enough for near a drop deck and scouting?

You can get enough mechs for an IS drop deck if you do good in the tutorial and then complete your 25 training matches. You can buy the mechs for the deck but you still have to drop 4+mil each to skill them out and 10-20 mil each to load them with the right tech.
I usually go for a Griffin 2N, or 1S, first then a Marauder 3R followed by a Battlemaster 1G and a Phoenix Hawk 1K. It takes a lot of tooling to break them out of the 500 damage a match range.

I can sometimes squeeze out enough for a clan drop deck that usually goes: Marauder IIC or IICA , Orion IIC A (I usually grind with lrms), The Hunchback IIC C with the two UAC 20s which I switch out with two UAC 10s and more armor and ammo, then a Piranha 1. It will work out of the box but expect to average 500-900 damage per match until you get it skilled up.

These are the two easiest decks I've been able to build from scratch on newer accounts. If you haven't build a new account since the skill tree you may not realize just how much of a pain in the *** it is to grind up new mechs then pay for the tech to make them good.

[MischiefSC]

S O L A I S, on 03 September 2018 - 01:38 AM, said:

Ah there it is. Wanting to play a team game organised instead of pick up style is elitist.

Yep.

Also about 70% of player in QP matches are members of units - because people in groups who drop periodically (or regularly) with other players still play QP.

I have to keep bringing this up but FW had thousands and thousands of players in units at one time. They didn't leave because they had to play vs other groups of players, they left because of broken promises and lack of content and purpose.

[Khobai]

raarz, on 04 September 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

There must be something like 400 or 500ish mechs available in the game.

yes theres more mechs now than average players lolol

thats what happens when you focus on pushing out mechpacks instead of retaining players

but hey WANNA BUY TWO MECHPACKS? because its not just one its two this month!

S O L A I S, on 03 September 2018 - 01:38 AM, said:

Ah there it is. Wanting to play a team game organised instead of pick up style is elitist.

thats not what makes it elitest. what makes it elitest is when you do crap like spawn camp when you know pugs are already at a crippling disadvantage. or when you unnecessarily prolong games to farm damage and kills. its just really sad that you feel the need to do that and it doesnt encourage pugs to keep playing faction warfare. you need to take at least partial responsibility for why players have left the game or at least dont want to play faction warfare anymore.

and PGI's misguided attempt to fix FW with a new matchmaker is too little too late. we needed it 4 years ago. when it had a chance of working, not after everyone has already left the game. RIP. FW is still gonna be the same toxic flaming garbage fire it has been for years.

theyd be better off just focusing on improving quickplay. thats the only gamemode people dont constantly complain about. let the game go out with some dignity by having at least one gamemode people have fun playing and arnt constantly irate about.

S O L A I S, on 03 September 2018 - 01:38 AM, said:

Pugs aren't the future, we are past having one.

I told PGI a long time ago exactly how to save their game: add dinosaurs. even the worst dinosaur games on steam have sold more copies than MWO had founders... Orion prelude sold over a million copies at $1 each and all they had to do was lie, which PGI is fully capable of. Instead they went with this Solaris7 garbage which everyone told them would be an awful failure. We shouldve gotten MECHWARRIOR: STONE AGE with TYRANNOCERATOPS AND BRONTODACTYLS AND STEGORAPTORS. Wed have a hundred thousand more players easily.

instead theyre wasting their time on some dumb matchmaker for FW that will literally make no difference at all.

its like they deliberately want their game to fail.

Edited by Khobai, 06 September 2018 - 10:47 PM.

[Black Ivan]

Hm I have to admit that I have to agree what Khobai says

What ever PGI is attempting is too littl too late. The time to save FW with tape and glue is gone, there are bis steps to be taken to save it.

The evenings where I can play with friends from our unit is getting less and less because nobody wants to play FW anymore

Edited by Black Ivan, 06 September 2018 - 10:33 PM.

[Iron Buccaneer]

If there is a decent break after this event is over I am thinking about making account number 20 and creating a blog guideline to collecting the mechs for an IS drop deck during your first day of play. After that I'll try a clan one.