132 replies to this topic

[Yosharian]

Khobai, on 05 February 2018 - 09:00 PM, said:

so is ghost heat

energy draw is basically the same thing as ghost heat but without loopholes

and if were not getting rid of ghost heat id rather have a version of ghost heat that actually works

No it's not

Ghost heat allows me to bring weapons that fire without penalty

or

Bring weapons which can be split fired in an exact way to produce exact results

Energy draw on the other hand is a system which requires constant management to produce results

I agree that the loopholes are a problem but Energy Draw is horrible

[justcallme A S H]

Kiran Yagami, on 05 February 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

Yes, if you can't aim it's not pinpoint, but for those who can it's easily pinpoint.

If you are holding your burn for 1 sec in a D/S and a good dual HGR pilot is within range, expect instant death from a headshot. There is not many builds in the game that can do that - HGR is the king of it. It doesn't NEED a 94pt alpha.

Kiran Yagami, on 05 February 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

You can twist away from HGR before the cycle is complete too, but no HGR mech can put out 94 damage to a single component.

Yeah and you can twist far easier from a Deathstrike alpha than dual HGR.

Kiran Yagami, on 05 February 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

In fact, no HGR can put out 94 damage period. Not to mention run faster, have more ammunition, shoot further, have jump jets, and all the other nice things clan mechs have.

No it cannot but a DS cannot shoot twice inside of 5 seconds, it's simply too hot with the 2cERL/4cERML. A Dual HGR can however, infact coupled with 3-5ERML it's outputting more and in most cases it's take the component it's hitting.

And of the day you are comparing HGR, available for many mechs to a single mech in the game. You simply cannot lock and argument in that hard without looking at the bigger picture.

This is how we've end up in this stupid stale/boring state of balance in the first place.

[Yosharian]

justcallme A S H, on 05 February 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

If you are holding your burn for 1 sec in a D/S and a good dual HGR pilot is within range, expect instant death from a headshot. There is not many builds in the game that can do that - HGR is the king of it. It doesn't NEED a 94pt alpha.




Yeah and you can twist far easier from a Deathstrike alpha than dual HGR.




No it cannot but a DS cannot shoot twice inside of 5 seconds, it's simply too hot with the 2cERL/4cERML. A Dual HGR can however, infact coupled with 3-5ERML it's outputting more and in most cases it's take the component it's hitting.

And of the day you are comparing HGR, available for many mechs to a single mech in the game. You simply cannot lock and argument in that hard without looking at the bigger picture.

This is how we've end up in this stupid stale/boring state of balance in the first place.

Are there any videos of people reliably hitting headshots with dual HGR?

The way you describe it it seems as if it's the sort of thing a good pilot can achieve every match, minimum.

I'd just like to see the evidence, that's all

[Khobai]

Quote

If you are holding your burn for 1 sec in a D/S and a good dual HGR pilot is within range, expect instant death from a headshot. There is not many builds in the game that can do that - HGR is the king of it. It doesn't NEED a 94pt alpha.

if good pilots can pull off instant death headshots with any degree of regularity its all the more reason HGR needs to be changed.

Or just remove headshots from the game completely. Its not really enjoyable being headshotted. It doesnt make the game more fun to get headshotted. It didnt happen often enough before to matter, but if its happening more frequently, something should be done about it.

Quote

Energy draw on the other hand is a system which requires constant management to produce results

Yes energy draw will require players to adapt. But it also accomplishes what ghost heat has continually failed to do: cap alphastrikes at reasonable levels.

Every other suggestion for capping alphastrikes is worse. RNG cone of fire is worse. Abysmally low heat capacity is worse. Forced chain fire is worse. Energy draw is the least intrusive of all the proposed solutions. Because energy draw is really just a soft limiter, you can always choose to fire more weapons than energy draw allows, you just pay for it in extra heat.

It also helps that energy draw is effectively an extension of ghost heat, the system we already have in place. So most people will already be familiar with the concept.

Edited by Khobai, 05 February 2018 - 10:13 PM.

[InvictusLee]

why are you guys still arguing over ghost heat?
Its the other horse we love to kick the ever living **** out of as a community, the first is LRM boating.
We all know its bad.
Energy Draw is a fun idea but will end up being the same as GH.
WHAT I WANNA KNOW IS WHY PPCS DONT CHARGE AND WHY GAUSS DO....

Actually dont answer that, because the answer is always "reasons..."

[FupDup]

November11th, on 05 February 2018 - 10:42 PM, said:

WHAT I WANNA KNOW IS WHY PPCS DONT CHARGE AND WHY GAUSS DO....

Because PPCs have heat and Gauss doesn't.

Also because Gauss has to be differentiated from PPFLD ACs while PPCs are the only energy-based PPFLD for now.

Edited by FupDup, 05 February 2018 - 11:02 PM.

[Khobai]

neither should have charge up

charge mechanics should only be used when a weapon has variable levels of charge

if ppc capacitors were in the game that would be a proper use of chargeup mechanics (fire uncharged immediately or hold down and charge up for extra damage, like megamans arm cannon)

they also couldve given gauss variable charge levels. they couldve made it so gauss could fire immediately at half damage, 3/4 damage at half charge, and full damage at full charge. the charge mechanic wouldve been more intuitive then.

Quote

Also because Gauss has to be differentiated from PPFLD ACs while PPCs are the only energy-based PPFLD for now.

differentiation should be achieved through positive traits not negative ones.

chargeup used in that manner is purely negative. it only exists to punish gauss.

nobody likes negative quirks, nerfs, or bad mechanics that exist only to cause frustration and clunkiness.

UAC jamming is in the same boat as gauss chargeup. its a bad way to differentiate weapons.

Edited by Khobai, 05 February 2018 - 11:36 PM.

[InvictusLee]

Khobai, on 05 February 2018 - 11:20 PM, said:

neither should have charge up

differentiation should be achieved through positive traits not negative ones.

chargeup used in that manner is purely negative. it only exists to punish gauss.

nobody likes negative quirks, nerfs, or bad mechanics that exist only to cause frustration and clunkiness.

UAC jamming is in the same boat as gauss chargeup. its a bad way to differentiate weapons.

^This.

Also. I enjoyed mech assaults charge mechanic way too much xD.

[Destoroyah]

As far as the AC20 family does it does need improvements. I find the 1 ghostheat limit ridiculous considering the current state of the game. If they Increased the ghost heat limit to 2 they could always increase the weapon heat abit and drastically increase the heat penalty if you surpass the ghost heat limit. So you can fire 2 AC20s or 1 double tap UAC20 fine but if your going to double tap 2 Uac20s it'll cost you big.
The biggest thing that tweaks me off about the AC20 is it's bloody velocity, You got to noticably lead targets at close range just to hit them which shouldn't be the case. The weapon is supposed to be a short range supremacy weapon yet I'm more afraid of dual gauss or AC 10s then I am of AC20s.

[justcallme A S H]

Yosharian, on 05 February 2018 - 09:57 PM, said:

Are there any videos of people reliably hitting headshots with dual HGR?

The way you describe it it seems as if it's the sort of thing a good pilot can achieve every match, minimum.

I'd just like to see the evidence, that's all

Yes. Plenty.

Watch any of the decent streamers. Some have even made videos about it.

When in a FP drop against heavy Gauss it's not uncommon at all to have one player go down to one vs a wave of Anni/Sleip/Maulers.

FupDup, on 05 February 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

Because PPCs have heat and Gauss doesn't.

Also because Gauss has to be differentiated from PPFLD ACs while PPCs are the only energy-based PPFLD for now.

Stop speaking sense.

The LOREHounds and uneducateds can't understand commons sense.

[Kubernetes]

Yeah the PPFLD nature of dual HGauss also shatters mediums and lights in a way that the Death Strike does not. You can twist/JJ off a lot of Clan ER lasers, but 50 PPFLD erases lights.

I still love it. If you can hit a dancing Commando with dual HGauss you deserve that kill. The battlefield is supposed to be deadly. Lights and mediums shouldn't ever ever ever stare down 90 and 100 ton assaults.

[R Valentine]

justcallme A S H, on 05 February 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

If you are holding your burn for 1 sec in a D/S and a good dual HGR pilot is within range, expect instant death from a headshot. There is not many builds in the game that can do that - HGR is the king of it. It doesn't NEED a 94pt alpha.

If head shots are really that easy with HGR then they need to be removed, but I doubt they are. Once upon a time you could head shot with dual gauss too, and that was back when you could time them with PPCs. Head shots weren't over the top then.

justcallme A S H, on 05 February 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

Yeah and you can twist far easier from a Deathstrike alpha than dual HGR.

That's the only saving grace. 1 alpha from Deathstrike can core out just about anyone's shoulder and nearly core out a 100 tonner's CT. That's just way too good. Dual HGR needs 2 volleys just to catch Deathstrike's 1.

justcallme A S H, on 05 February 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

No it cannot but a DS cannot shoot twice inside of 5 seconds, it's simply too hot with the 2cERL/4cERML. A Dual HGR can however, infact coupled with 3-5ERML it's outputting more and in most cases it's take the component it's hitting.

Huh? You can do 2 volleys with Deathstrike without shutting down easy. You also have cool shots and you can always fire your gauss rifles regardless of your heat level. After that first 94, the gauss rifles should be all you need. HGR has a longer CD than regular gauss and a much shorter optimal.

[kapusta11]

AC20 does not explode.
AC20 doesn't need charging.
Boomhammer moves at 70-75 kph speed and is pretty agile.
40 damage can one shot a light mech. Do you play light mechs? You think it would be fun getting one shoted?

[Brain Cancer]

Yosharian, on 05 February 2018 - 09:57 PM, said:

Are there any videos of people reliably hitting headshots with dual HGR?

The way you describe it it seems as if it's the sort of thing a good pilot can achieve every match, minimum.

I'd just like to see the evidence, that's all

MoltenMetal (Baradul) on YouTube took a Mauler out after the HGauss update.

He actually manages to headshot someone without even trying for it. Of course, 50 PPFLD is going to auto-crush something if it happens to cross the wrong cockpit pixel no matter what, but there you go.

[Yosharian]

Brain Cancer, on 06 February 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

MoltenMetal (Baradul) on YouTube took a Mauler out after the HGauss update.

He actually manages to headshot someone without even trying for it. Of course, 50 PPFLD is going to auto-crush something if it happens to cross the wrong cockpit pixel no matter what, but there you go.

justcallme A S H, on 06 February 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

Yes. Plenty.

Watch any of the decent streamers. Some have even made videos about it.

When in a FP drop against heavy Gauss it's not uncommon at all to have one player go down to one vs a wave of Anni/Sleip/Maulers.

So we have one random lucky headshot and some unnamed videos that apparently prove it

I'm not convinced

a YouTube search of 'MWO Heavy Gauss Headshot' yields ONE video that has a single headshot clip in it, from 6 months ago

I don't watch Twitch so I have no idea where to look for Twitch videos

[Khobai]

Quote

Because PPCs have heat and Gauss doesn't.

so give gauss heat

gauss has always been broken as hell.

because it violates one of the fundamental principles of the game that weapons generate heat when you fire them.

im not saying it has to generate a lot of heat, but it should certainly generate more than 1 heat. At least 5-6 heat probably.

making gauss generate a proper amount of heat proportional to its power level makes far more sense than handicapping it with goofy mechanics like chargeup. denying a sniper weapon the ability to snapshot makes no sense whatsoever; being able to snapshot is the whole point of snipers. Now that PPCs/Gauss cant be syncfired theres no need to prevent gauss from snapshotting anymore. they just have to crack down on gauss/laser combos, but thats a relatively easy thing to do by adding new ghost heat linkages.

if you want to make gauss different, do it in a positive way: give it armor penetration. it fires a mach 6 supersonic penetrator. giving it like 10%-20% armor penetration wouldnt be unreasonable. thats a way better skill node ability than the one it gets now. And the through armor crits from gauss would be fairly tame since gauss has super reduced crit chance.

Edited by Khobai, 06 February 2018 - 07:08 PM.

[ROSS-128]

If getting headshots was easy and "common", heavy PPCs paired with just about any source of 3+ damage would probably be a bigger culprit than dual heavy gauss. It fits on smaller, faster mechs, it works with LFEs, and it can go out to 540m without losing damage.

Heavy Gauss seems to be more a case of any sign of IS breaching 50 pinpoint damage causes the Clans to tremble on their 70+ damage thrones, even when it comes at a massive cost in tonnage and crits.

[InvictusLee]

You know what would be awesome? The uping if the charge limit on guass rifles from 2 to 4 and cguass cooldown buffed. Shink! Shink! Shink!

[FupDup]

November11th, on 06 February 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

You know what would be awesome? The uping if the charge limit on guass rifles from 2 to 4 and cguass cooldown buffed. Shink! Shink! Shink!

Noe.

[InvictusLee]

FupDup, on 06 February 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

Noe.

yesh!