145 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Laser Kiwi, on 12 February 2018 - 12:21 AM, said:

well i guess he meant 50pp and 10 splash?

Hmm well he would be wrong because the three combo has an upper bound of actually 65 PPFLD, but only between 90 and 250ish m (2 Heavy Gauss, Heavy PPC, but considering how bulky those weapons are, I think you would have to go slower than a Dire...) 2 HPPC 1 Heavy Gauss is more doable and that is 55 PPFLD. But still, much closer range.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 February 2018 - 08:24 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

fenomeno, on 12 February 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

low-risk, low-skill, nigh-on-uncounterable PPFLD combo seems like it's just something the 'slightly better than average' players want back for nostalgia reasons , and have it conveniently wrapped up in this cover of 'skill-ceiling' and 'competitiveness'.

Lol what? Un-counterable? Its only uncounterable if its not balanced correctly, which in the current state of the game, it would be. The only people who can't counter it are those who don't know how to play.

Low-skill LOL its probably the hardest thing in this game to do well.

[L0stA1m]

fenomeno, on 12 February 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

How do you know that balance issues are what is causing player population to drop?

I said that the low skill ceiling is the reason why MWO is bleeding good players and as a result lacks a diverse and decent playerbase. If you dont bring high skill ceiling back only spuds will still play. The average skilllevel is allready bad enaugh. I never talked about the overall population.

Quote

the low-risk, low-skill

Have you ever played it on a high level?

[Volkodav]

2G + 2P - not - too fatly for potatoes. 1G + 2P, 2P + 1G, 3P - yes.

Edited by Volkodav, 12 February 2018 - 10:15 AM.

[Rebel581]

Tiewolf, on 11 February 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

Sorry but I can`t take your vote seriously. It represents definitly not "the community" at all and is nothing but a hoax.

1. The most people who are affected by the PPC/Gauss at the receiving end are not on the forums or do not understand it yet what this change will mean to them.

2. The top players are overrepresented on the forums and they will vote with all their smurf accounts too, because they are the only winners from a change like that. Btw. to even argue with laservomit that can be spread and has a longer facetime by players who know this game well tells a story of its own. Just sad.

I assume you know 1+2 and still put up this vote. I was very entusiastic because of your vid and the movement you started. But now I am slowly but steady more and more disapointed by the path this "movement" takes. By putting up an unequal vote like this you only fed my suspicion that this is not about "the community" but to enhance the dominance and fun of the top 10% players at the expence of all others.
Anyway I still hope that you and the team that put so much work in this, get the right turn, so that in the end the majority of the players will agree that it was really for the community and not predominant for the ones that are like you. Please don`t blow this unique chance you created for the sake of all of us.

If you are right the forum can be closed, and the wining subjects about their continuous need to nerf the clan side don't need to be listened.
YOU, just you are delegitimating the exitence of this forum. Or it may be can be used for IS frendly purpose only...?

[Gas Guzzler]

fenomeno, on 12 February 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

Really? Is that your personal experience? Or just what you think a 'good' player has to say in this discussion?

1. Point your mouse at the target (which in MWO, is an incredibly large and slow target)
2. Press LMB once, while holding/releasing RMB (let's not pretend the gauss charge mechanic is complicated)

You really think that is 'the hardest thing in this game to do well'? Because coming to MWO from years of playing 'real' FPS games, PPFLD was laughably easy to do well with.

I thought you were talking about poptarting with PPC Gauss. If you are just talking PPC Gauss in general, then I agree with not being especially difficult (but then, nothing in this game is especially difficult, so.. ?? ). And if you aren't talking about poptarting then how is PPC Gauss nigh-uncounterable? Any mech doing that combo is not going to have great agility and can be easily blasted with lasers as soon as they step out of cover lol.

Volkodav, on 12 February 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

2G + 2P - not - too fatly for potatoes. 1G + 2P, 2P + 1G, 3P - yes.

I think this poll is just about bringing the 3 combos back, not the 4. So based on what you said that would be a yes vote.

[Volkodav]

Y

[Gas Guzzler]

fenomeno, on 12 February 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

Sorry, I should have added a third point re pop-tarting...which is pressing two mouse buttons and the jump key while taking account of a relatively slow and predictable jump trajectory, with no reticule shake or shot divergence on the downward drop...

Obviously not everyone can do that (your average video-gamer is reaaaaaally bad), but it's not exactly difficult, and that's before you consider that you're only exposed to the enemy for a second or so, from an unpredictable height/angle, which is where my point on it being largely uncounterable comes in.

Uh, still, that is the hardest "aiming" operation in the game. And if you take too long to acquire a target, the easier the target you yourself are.

I mean, poptarts were countered before, they can be countered again. Its really not an issue. You could counter it before the ghost heat link anyway, Night Gyrs were too cumbersome to properly re-position and maintain good firing lines without getting flanked and killed, ESPECIALLY in the quick play.

[r4zen]

iLLcapitan, on 12 February 2018 - 02:45 AM, said:

Khobais troll campaign continues, I see.

For a period of years I ironically pronounced 'quesadilla' as 'kae-so-dill-uh' but now I have to consciously pronounce it correctly because I trained myself to pronounce it like an idiot

maybe he started off being a troll but he likely actually believes the incredible pile of crud he spouts now

[Jarl Dane]

East Indy, on 12 February 2018 - 05:00 AM, said:

Is there any way to prevent people from sockpuppeting with their smurf accounts?

Probably not?

There is no way to prevent Sock Puppets. Hopefully the sock puppets on each side of the argument filter each other out. Best I can hope for.

East Indy, on 12 February 2018 - 05:00 AM, said:

Why doesn't your consortium just make whatever call you believe is right and stand by it?

Because this is a contentious issue and they want to be on the right side of the community for it. With just a debate there was no way to tell how the community really felt. Was it just comp players that wanted Gauss/PPC back with a vast majority who were against it? Or was there only a small handful of players who were against bringing it back that were loudly passionate about their concerns?

This gives them the best idea of where the community stands, and allows them to make the most informed decision on what to do.

[Gas Guzzler]

fenomeno, on 12 February 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

Alright, I'll agree that from a pure 'aiming' perspective it's up there as far as MWO goes (holding a ERLL laser burn on the legs of a light mech at 600m is arguably harder, for example).

But the reason I changed my vote initially was seeing all this talk of gauss/PPC being help up the poster child for skillful play and the negative impact of balancing for the casuals...
I was left thinking to myself if I was spectating someone pop-tarting, i'll occasionally think 'hmm, nice shot'... it's only when I spectate someone in a proper melee-range brawl, duking, feinting, twisting, jumping, etc that I think 'holy sh*t, this guy is good!' - that's where I think the true skill is in this game. Purely personal opinion, and I'm just a faction play casual myself, but buffing brawling won't upset anyone, whereas buffing gauss/PPC seems like it certainly will.

Thanks for taking the time to respond though, definitely helped my understanding of the issue.

So there is the aiming, but the harder part of properly poptarting, especially in a slow *** Night Gyr, is proper positioning so that you can continually be laying down fire, which is one of the reasons why the Summoner had actually surpassed the Night Gyr because its so much easier to use, and you are much faster and more agile.

And brawling... takes a slightly different skill set. And I gotta say, brawling is actually pretty strong, especially on maps with lots of buildings, because if you can isolate someone you can melt them pretty quickly. I mean seriously, go take an Onion IIC-A with an LB20 and SRM24a for a few rounds. If you play smart its really easy to rack up 1000 damage, especially when the game starts going the nascar direction, which it does so often.

I'm after balance, I don't want dual gauss ER PPC Night Gyrs everywhere, I really don't. I just don't think they will be everywhere just by lifting the ghost heat.

[MovinTarget]

Y'all are missing the point of the problem with PPFLD. It's *TOO* accurate, especially while airborne.

Simply reduce the capacity to get true convergence (especially with torso mounted weapons) or make it take longer so that poptarting can still do damage but it would be harder to get it all on one component. That way you don't penalize those that keep their feel on the ground and try to setup for a good shot.

Perhaps it would manifest as a general movement penalty in general, though I dunno if I necessarily want to encourage people to stand still a lot...

The aiming is a bit of a skill, but it can be learned by anyone (hint: fire on your descent not while firing JJs).

Edited by MovinTarget, 12 February 2018 - 11:17 AM.

[Cody CC2224]

i dont understand. gauss/ppc is already pretty strong. why should it be buffed?
even today people are angry/salty about high pp-alphas.

and as far as i know, everybody was pretty happy when the pop-tarting meta was gone.

btw: https://youtu.be/UU7lLCMknig?t=2m

(edit: link)

Edited by Cody CC2224, 12 February 2018 - 11:58 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

I hated the Guass/PPC meta, completely slanted to the clans(simply due to weight).

[Gas Guzzler]

Racerxintegra2k, on 12 February 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

I hated the Guass/PPC meta, completely slanted to the clans(simply due to weight).

Ironically, 2 Gauss 2 (ER) PPC, would have made the Nightstar halfway decent, but we couldn't have that.. nope nope nope.

We can only have assaults with poke-worthy loadouts on the Clan side where stacking dual Gauss and enough lasers isn't an issue.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 February 2018 - 12:39 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Btw, bringing it back has a commanding lead. There is hope for salvation!

[Stinger554]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 February 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

Btw, bringing it back has a commanding lead. There is hope for salvation!

Of course it's going to have a commanding lead the poll is setup for more people to select yes versus no....

[Gas Guzzler]

Stinger554, on 12 February 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Of course it's going to have a commanding lead the poll is setup for more people to select yes versus no....

How so? Its yes you want the 3 combo to come back, or no you don't. Very simple and unbiased.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

i'd like it back.
Given the crazy high alpha strikes from (heavy) laser + dual gauss meta builds, i don't see why a two + one or even two + two
gauss + ppc cap would be an issue.

[Cody CC2224]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 12 February 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

Given the crazy high alpha strikes from (heavy) laser + dual gauss meta builds, i don't see why a two + one or even two + two
gauss + ppc cap would be an issue.

because its pin-point.
lazors aren't.

Edited by Cody CC2224, 12 February 2018 - 01:24 PM.