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What Exactly Do You Expect To Happen Once


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#41 Angus McFife VI

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 04:27 AM

This is a great point.

#42 UnofficialOperator

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 05:12 AM

View PostDerMaulwurf, on 21 February 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:


When you cannot even outscore me, you just look like a pathetic jackass.


LMAO!!!

I'm not even going to explain this one. :)

#43 Bud Crue

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:13 AM

View PostUnofficialOperator, on 20 February 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

What Exactly Do You Expect to Happen Once Weapons or mechs are balanced?


That will never occur.

It became clear when the three mech model was eliminated that the only way for PGI to maintain a viable c-bill sink (which Russ talked about a need for in the refunds podcast just before skills tree dropped) was to introduce something into the game that would force players to rebuild mechs constantly or bite the bullet and buy a second or third copy of the mech in question. That mechanism is the non-stop "balance" passes. Which anyone paying attention will see have nothing to do with balance (hell even if you listen to Paul, he made clear it isn't about balance but an overall increase in TTK that is the goal). They will never stop messing with things. Nothing they have done since skills tree has had much to do with balance, and everything to do with encouraging you to spend cbills on weapons that are least nerfed atm, re-node-ing to use nodes in accordance with your new weapons, and hopefully new mechs once your frustration level at having to do the rebuild process every month finally gets to you.

Tell me. Is the Kodiak balanced? When they nerfed it into the ground did you keep playing it or did you buy a MK-II? When they nerfed your SPL boats did you keep playing them because now they were perfectly balanced or did you move them to a different weapon? We all know the answers here and so does PGI. This isn't about balance, its about driving purchases. This is the state of the game now and it always will be.

#44 Davegt27

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:23 AM

View PostUnofficialOperator, on 20 February 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

Weapons or mechs are balanced?

That gameplay automatically improves???

Nothing will change if the fake terribad T1 players are still stuck in T1 who have no basic idea of how to play.

I just saw 1 beat up enemy mech (82 percentile player) take on 3 mechs (34 percentile player with fresh HBR [because LL sniping], 32 percentile player with fresh Jag, 89 percentile player with 1 laser left in Blanner) & fight to a draw in assault because

1. our pair of fake T1s couldn't aim at all except for the beat up 89% player with his 1 laser
2. our pair of 30% players have no concept of torso twisting so they took in focused shots from the enemy mech
3. enemy mech was torso twisting and just trying to survive.

Ends up enemy mech kills fresh HBR first then hunts down the last 2 trying to cap. 1 laser guy dies first face tanking. Jag runs out of weapons. Enemy would have won too if not for timer.

TLDR: GAMEPLAY CAN ONLY IMPROVE ONCE EVERYONE IS IN THEIR RIGHT TIER FIGHTING THEIR CORRECT SKILL LEVEL OPPONENTS. SOMETIMES I WONDER WHETHER ITS A CONSPIRACY NOT TO FIX TIERS AND PSR.


wow that was close
I thought he was talking about me (fake terribad T1 players)

but I wont go near my Hellbringer or EBJ they are just to weak in QP

also there is no such thing as fake terribad


#45 KodiakGW

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:24 AM

View PostUnofficialOperator, on 21 February 2018 - 05:12 AM, said:

I'm not even going to explain this one. :)


Here, I’ll do it for you. Basically a person at the 99th percentile on Jarl’s list is pretending that he is some sort of terribad so he can call you a name, and pretend that that anyone that can’t out score him has no right to an opinion.

So, what..the other 99% of the player base?????? That is called elitism.

Edited by KodiakGW, 21 February 2018 - 09:14 AM.


#46 UnofficialOperator

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 07:00 AM

View PostBud Crue, on 21 February 2018 - 06:13 AM, said:


That will never occur.

It became clear when the three mech model was eliminated that the only way for PGI to maintain a viable c-bill sink (which Russ talked about a need for in the refunds podcast just before skills tree dropped) was to introduce something into the game that would force players to rebuild mechs constantly or bite the bullet and buy a second or third copy of the mech in question. That mechanism is the non-stop "balance" passes. Which anyone paying attention will see have nothing to do with balance (hell even if you listen to Paul, he made clear it isn't about balance but an overall increase in TTK that is the goal). They will never stop messing with things. Nothing they have done since skills tree has had much to do with balance, and everything to do with encouraging you to spend cbills on weapons that are least nerfed atm, re-node-ing to use nodes in accordance with your new weapons, and hopefully new mechs once your frustration level at having to do the rebuild process every month finally gets to you.

Tell me. Is the Kodiak balanced? When they nerfed it into the ground did you keep playing it or did you buy a MK-II? When they nerfed your SPL boats did you keep playing them because now they were perfectly balanced or did you move them to a different weapon? We all know the answers here and so does PGI. This isn't about balance, its about driving purchases. This is the state of the game now and it always will be.


Maybe we should post on reddit instead... but yeah lets just say I've been leaning away from Hanlon's Razor recently...

#47 Dogstar

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 07:57 AM

View PostUnofficialOperator, on 21 February 2018 - 01:03 AM, said:

If these 2 phrases are too big, you can google for it.


I'll use short words so you can understand:

You don't know what you are talking about

#48 Novakaine

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 08:28 AM

Shark tank nope more like farm hub central.
Yeah that will really help.



#49 Angus McFife VI

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 08:42 AM

View PostDerMaulwurf, on 21 February 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:


Wow.

If you had Proton-level skills this would make you look like a douche. But, at least you'd have the skills to back up that talk.

When you cannot even outscore me, you just look like a pathetic jackass.


Holy ****

#50 FinnMcKool

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 08:44 AM

well the tier s are a joke , sometimes i think , no i really do think its the way the game rates or moves players up the teirs, if you do a lot of damage you move up , you may ruin the game for your team but you (only person that matters) move up your team suffers but you dont care , no need to worry about winning just hide wait for the rest of the team to wear down the other team , then snipe or go after the badly dammaged mechs and WOW your an eleet player and can show your teir rateing on the forums.

any rant rant rave rave

#51 Mystere

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 08:57 AM

View PostBud Crue, on 21 February 2018 - 06:13 AM, said:


That will never occur.

It became clear when the three mech model was eliminated that the only way for PGI to maintain a viable c-bill sink (which Russ talked about a need for in the refunds podcast just before skills tree dropped) was to introduce something into the game that would force players to rebuild mechs constantly or bite the bullet and buy a second or third copy of the mech in question. That mechanism is the non-stop "balance" passes. Which anyone paying attention will see have nothing to do with balance (hell even if you listen to Paul, he made clear it isn't about balance but an overall increase in TTK that is the goal). They will never stop messing with things. Nothing they have done since skills tree has had much to do with balance, and everything to do with encouraging you to spend cbills on weapons that are least nerfed atm, re-node-ing to use nodes in accordance with your new weapons, and hopefully new mechs once your frustration level at having to do the rebuild process every month finally gets to you.

Tell me. Is the Kodiak balanced? When they nerfed it into the ground did you keep playing it or did you buy a MK-II? When they nerfed your SPL boats did you keep playing them because now they were perfectly balanced or did you move them to a different weapon? We all know the answers here and so does PGI. This isn't about balance, its about driving purchases. This is the state of the game now and it always will be.


My solution to that -- so far anyway -- is to ignore the skill tree altogether. <shrugs>

#52 UnofficialOperator

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:04 AM

View PostDerMaulwurf, on 21 February 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:


Wow.

If you had Proton-level skills this would make you look like a douche. But, at least you'd have the skills to back up that talk.

When you cannot even outscore me, you just look like a pathetic jackass.


Lol now that I got time to show you...

Posted Image

As anyone experienced would know, the heavier mech you take, the more the match score is inflated. I believe someone showed the math on the forum before that every weight class differed in match score about 50 to 100. You have 1% of your games in light, hence probably inflating your overall match score. I have 32% overall for light mechs.

And if you are referring to your small sample size of 23 matches in s19, then I would refer you to my previous 2 threads in which I broke 400 MS as well over a small sample size Posted Image in season 19 and this season. Damage inflation over a small sample size is just a trick/joke anyway. Numbers are deceptive. Observe this:

Posted Image

Does this mean that you with your s19 MS of 429 are better than those 3 illustrious pilots? Am I?
I highly doubt it.

However if you could do it over a 100 matches in s20 or s21 then I'll give it to you :)

Even then it doesn't really matter to me because you like the other 2 guys, did not address the crux of my thread after all. Sure my reply was snarky but that was all that the other 2 guys deserved if you bothered to read their replies. Posted Image

My point still stands. Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 21 February 2018 - 09:09 AM.


#53 Metus regem

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:06 AM

View PostJohnathan Tanner, on 21 February 2018 - 12:03 AM, said:

Whats wrong with just removing the skill barrier fail and creating a shark tank? I see it as a win for all.



*points to faction play

Did you see what happened there, they didn't have a MM because it was for big units to fight big units... now what we got was big units curb stomping PuGs... Notice how next to no-one actually uses that mode? Do you want to kill the already small player base of MWO even more?


Now don't get me wrong, I don't might fighting better pilots, it makes me better as I learn from my mistakes, but joe average PuG isn't going to enjoy getting cooked by strikes / laser vomit "skillz" players all the time.

#54 LordNothing

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:07 AM

one has to ask. where were you? i assume you were dead and spectating. apparently you need to learn to torso twist. id write it off as nothing more than a skilled player having a good game. even ive from time to time had the privilege to carry a bunch of dead back seat mechwarriors to victory, and im a terrible player.

il agree that psr never worked. its more to stroke the egos of special snowflakes than to sort people out by skill. t1 needs to literally be the top 20% of the player base. then if that was the case you still have the problem of the population being too low to support any matchmaking at all.

#55 CFC Conky

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:19 AM

View PostBud Crue, on 21 February 2018 - 06:13 AM, said:


...

Tell me. Is the Kodiak balanced? When they nerfed it into the ground did you keep playing it or did you buy a MK-II? When they nerfed your SPL boats did you keep playing them because now they were perfectly balanced or did you move them to a different weapon? We all know the answers here and so does PGI. This isn't about balance, its about driving purchases. This is the state of the game now and it always will be.


Hi Bud,

Sounds like planned obsolescence, which is a pretty common business model today. Just look at cars, iPhones, fashion, whatever, nothing stays static. PGI will continue to release mechs/weapons/equipment/cockpit stuff because people eventually want something new.

Do you like your early-game mechs best? Great, keep playing them, one the other hand, there are a lot of players who like to move on to new stuff, which is great too. The last bunch of mechs released has, for the most part not been particularly op which is also good from a power creep standpoint.

Personally, I'm ok with the present system and I realize that many players are not. That said, PGI should still work on improving the game mechanics, maps, game modes, etc because that stuff is important too.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

#56 Bud Crue

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:36 AM

View PostCFC Conky, on 21 February 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:


Hi Bud,

Sounds like planned obsolescence, which is a pretty common business model today. Just look at cars, iPhones, fashion, whatever, nothing stays static. PGI will continue to release mechs/weapons/equipment/cockpit stuff because people eventually want something new.

Do you like your early-game mechs best? Great, keep playing them, one the other hand, there are a lot of players who like to move on to new stuff, which is great too. The last bunch of mechs released has, for the most part not been particularly op which is also good from a power creep standpoint.

Personally, I'm ok with the present system and I realize that many players are not. That said, PGI should still work on improving the game mechanics, maps, game modes, etc because that stuff is important too.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky


Them screwing with things every month hurts old mechs and new alike. Planned obsolescence is irrelevant to such a system. They are just as likely next month to make a change that makes something currently mediocre or bad seem down right OP. If this were "planned obsolesce" mechs like the Hellspawn [edit] ot Thanatos wouldn't stink right out the door. Nope, the current model is about pushing you to old things as much as it pushes you to new things; as long as they are things (weapons, nodes, mechs) that also cause you to spend.

Lots of mechs and weapons -old and new- are viable if not competitive on a month to month basis, the key to PGI's current system is to ensure that many are, and that you the customer are willing to switch over to them as they continually change the underlying mechanics to make something you currently play less desirable than something else. This has been going on since skills tree and I don't expect it to ever stop. Think of it this way: There have been 15 "balance" changes since rescale. Of those 9 since skills tree and the elimination of the 3 mech model. 1 per month except for the pause in November. This is now the status quo.

Edited by Bud Crue, 21 February 2018 - 10:46 AM.


#57 JediPanther

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:47 AM

The game is 'fine.' The last mech I bought with real money was the panther KK. Catapults remain my top six used mechs. I haven't had to buy a second or third of my mechs that I like. Sure I've been tempted to many times since the skill dump but that it like hitting a reset switch on a mech I already have gxp and mxp on. As a tinker who likes trying new and different builds I've got generic laser vomit tree,bfg tree,lrm tree,missile tree, and light mech trees for the skills maze. Skill tree just means I don't bother to get another mech chassis but I've sold plenty because it just pain sucked no matter the skill tree.

Here's some useless stats for the stat pimps that I just farted out from Taco Bell:
CATAPULT CPLT-K2 398 188 206 0.91 321 290 1.11 98,542 291,675
CATAPULT CPLT-C1(F) 49 18 31 0.58 24 38 0.63 14,285 45,102
JENNER JR7-D 479 214 249 0.86 272 300 0.91 78,041 389,001
LOCUST LCT-1E 304 145 155 0.94 211 183 1.15 53,481 255,318
PIRATES' BANE 210 103 97 1.06 99 120 0.83 32,438 197,317

#58 Asym

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:06 AM

Truthfully, balance will not actually be "balanced" because of the strategic reason they are discussing balance in the first place: e-Sports and Solaris...

Neither are part of the core game value of team centric game play:

1) e-Sports exists in and on a completely different game platform than the average player sees or wants to be part of....
2) Solaris is 1x1/2x2 game play and has nothing to do with the rest of the MWO platform....

And yet, a vast majority of the buffs, quirk changes, mods, hot and balancing passes were designed for those platforms ! Look at it another way, why would PGI destroy Faction Play with the new Skill Tree and the CW changes??? The answer is simple: they are headed in another strategic direction for financial reasons.....

There will only be the die hard MW fans left in an ultra small niche and will be so inbred, there's not going to be any hope of recovery...... Sorry, just the way I see this question evolving.......

#59 Cnaiur

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:12 PM

It's a vicious circle; we don't have a large enough population to ensure good matchmaking, which drives the population down as people get frustrated with the lousy matchmaking. I get the frustration, I'm a decent pilot at best and I still get salty watching bottom 40% teammates struggle to hit a legged Atlas with their lasers, or being down 2 or 3 mechs early because those same teammates decided to wander off in random directions on some unknowable mission. But how long are people willing to wait for a match on average? Two minutes? Ten minutes? Longer?

Heck, I'm probably part of the problem myself. I'm addicted to buying new mechs and skilling them out, especially lousy mechs. Spiders, Vindicators, Orions, Phoenix Hawks, etc. and I'd say only a third of my matches are in fully skilled mechs. From the perspective of the MM, I'm a seasoned top tier pilot. In reality, I'm an adequate pilot in a lousy, unskilled mech. There are a few players that can reliably carry in those circumstances, but I'm not one of them. And so people in my matches get frustrated too; the bads are wondering where are the decent players on their team to balance out the decent players on the other team (I'm in an unskilled Trebuchet, sorry). The goods are wondering why they're the only one or two people on their team who seem capable of accomplishing anything (because the guy who should be helping them is in that unskilled Trebuchet).

But even if we had a MM that could take those kind of factors into account, it wouldn't matter because of the low population.

#60 Grus

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:28 PM

View PostCnaiur, on 21 February 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

It's a vicious circle; we don't have a large enough population to ensure good matchmaking, which drives the population down as people get frustrated with the lousy matchmaking. I get the frustration, I'm a decent pilot at best and I still get salty watching bottom 40% teammates struggle to hit a legged Atlas with their lasers, or being down 2 or 3 mechs early because those same teammates decided to wander off in random directions on some unknowable mission. But how long are people willing to wait for a match on average? Two minutes? Ten minutes? Longer?

Heck, I'm probably part of the problem myself. I'm addicted to buying new mechs and skilling them out, especially lousy mechs. Spiders, Vindicators, Orions, Phoenix Hawks, etc. and I'd say only a third of my matches are in fully skilled mechs. From the perspective of the MM, I'm a seasoned top tier pilot. In reality, I'm an adequate pilot in a lousy, unskilled mech. There are a few players that can reliably carry in those circumstances, but I'm not one of them. And so people in my matches get frustrated too; the bads are wondering where are the decent players on their team to balance out the decent players on the other team (I'm in an unskilled Trebuchet, sorry). The goods are wondering why they're the only one or two people on their team who seem capable of accomplishing anything (because the guy who should be helping them is in that unskilled Trebuchet).

But even if we had a MM that could take those kind of factors into account, it wouldn't matter because of the low population.


i agree, i dont know if any of you play WarThunder but trying to take my top tier saber out for a spin can take a very long time to get a match. id rather not wait 5+ to 15min for a match in MWO as well. There would need to be some serious revamping done to either MM or how you get mechs (kinda like WoT/WoW/Warthender.) wouldn't like that but there you go.





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