97 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

Vellron2005, on 20 February 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

I just hate how some people in Tier 1 feel like they are "more equal than everyone else".. if someone is T1, you deserve to be there, just as much as the next guy..

The illusion is that T1 means you're actually good.

That tier has nothing to do with actual stats is the truth. Honestly, I'd rather look at what someone's doing on the leaderboard vs. how far they could shove the little bar over to the right, as honestly that is no measure of skill whatsoever.

Give me the T3 guy that has a 2+ W/L and a great K/D over the T1 with sub 1.0 ratios in both. The only thing the T1 has at that point is more experience at plateauing at a given skill level and grinding to the top one mediocre match at a time.

[Chortles]

How are you sure those 30% percentile players are in Tier 1? Is there a way to search for someone's tier? If not, then you're probably playing with tiers 2 or 3.

[JC Daxion]

UnofficialOperator, on 20 February 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

TLDR: GAMEPLAY CAN ONLY IMPROVE ONCE EVERYONE IS IN THEIR RIGHT TIER FIGHTING THEIR CORRECT SKILL LEVEL OPPONENTS. SOMETIMES I WONDER WHETHER ITS A CONSPIRACY NOT TO FIX TIERS AND PSR.

Or folks could just play in groups with players of equal skill and then fight others.. Because even a perfect tier system wouldn't work either.


I'm not a great player, but i'm pretty decent. But i am not always decent either. Sometimes i play clans and i do worse in them hands down. Sometimes i play clans that i am also bad in.. Like my ERLL supernova, which has stats about half of my lpl/MPL build.. Or maybe i'm leveling mechs which i've been doing for over the last 3 months and swapping mechs every few matches so i don't get into a groove.. SO what am i then?

How exactly are you going to rate me? am i a 18k leader board player in my bad clan mechs on my alt account.. or am i a 3500 something leader board player in my good IS mechs.. (the one month i actually only played 2 of my top mechs just to see where i ended up?)

Am i just screwing around in a spider because i want to? Am i trying hard in a Thunderbolt brawler? I have mechs that i can hit 800-1k in a decent match and pull off many kills and carry a team.. I have mechs that i have trouble hitting 300 damage and can't carry crap.. So what tier is that exactly and how should the match maker rate me?


Answer that question first..






I'll also add, it would help a lot too if good players actually talked, or called a target, or a location, or used the command wheel, and such.. I've had many matches with people i know are great players and nothing but crickets, even when people are trying to get the groups to work together. Getting a few more people agreeing, or going to X location, calling that spot ect is always better than just one saying something and then silence and not even focusing on a called target for example.


there are tons of issues in a team game, and the MM is really one of the smaller parts.. It's all the variety i listed above that you have to deal with and i am just one player on that team.. now X that by 12... and 12 again.. it's any wonder we get good matches ever..

Some nights i have a blast.. others not so much.. Some nights i've been in the top 3 on my team every match for 2 hours and didn't win a match.. others i am middle of the pack and have nothing but good matches.. and sometimes i am just off.. and the teams roll great no matter what i do..

When i'm not having fun, i log out and try again another day.

[Exilyth]

If you want new players to learn the important skills faster, you have to teach them using ingame tutorials.

At the moment there's a lot of information required to play the game, but most of that info has to be read on the forums or other places. Just a bunch of text guides for new players to look up basic stuff in without having to close the game would go a long way.

We do not even have an encyclopedia explaining how the weapons & equipment work.

[Cnaiur]

Chortles, on 21 February 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

How are you sure those 30% percentile players are in Tier 1? Is there a way to search for someone's tier? If not, then you're probably playing with tiers 2 or 3.

You're not sure, but it doesn't really matter because you'll see plenty of them in your matches if you're in T1. Well, bottom 40% anyway, bottom 30% are uncommon in T1 matches. What matters is that not only are bad players routinely matched up with (and against) elite players, but the MM apparently has no capacity to even tell the difference. The former is a problem in that while you could create balanced teams by mixing bads with top players, it's not much fun for anybody involved. How and why the latter is a problem should be self evident.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Vellron2005, on 20 February 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

I just hate how some people in Tier 1 feel like they are "more equal than everyone else".. if someone is T1, you deserve to be there, just as much as the next guy..

Some people *are* "more equal than everyone else" when it comes to how good they are at the game, that's how it is. Many people in T1 definitely should not be in T1, if its a matchmaker system built to match people of similar skill together then it has completely failed, but PGI has already stated that its only built to keep totally new players (and players who are exceptionally bad) from players who have played lots of matches (or are so good that they move up the tiers quickly).

Vellron2005, on 20 February 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

Must have done something right, if only getting in with the right crowd that carries you..

Being carried is a terrible flaw in the matchmaking system. How can it possibly be a pilot skill rating system if you can be dragged up the tiers just by failing horribly in many matches simply because you were carried up. I've seen people with 0.1 KDRs get they still can hold about a 0.6 WL because their teams are good enough to carry that deadweight often enough.

Vellron2005, on 20 February 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

Welcome to reality: not all successful people deserve their success, not all unsuccessful people deserve having nothing..

This is a discussion on a matchmaker for the sake of balancing a game. Throwing the unsuccessful people into the T1 queue overtime is bad for them, as they'll just be smashed repeatedly by the people who were successful and rushed up to T1 quickly.

Vellron2005, on 20 February 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

But guess what? The people who are top-quality will always be top quality - even when fighting with just a single small laser.. In the example you stated it was obvious who was better..

Exactly why the game is unbalanced in the matchmaker. One guy who's top-quality using two strings and some bubblegum is as good as someone who's bad but in the most decked out mech available. The idea here is that to have better matches we'd want equal skill balance on both sides rather than this messed up mix we get.

Vellron2005, on 20 February 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

What I dislike about it is the amount of toxicity and self-entitlement you express.. those people probably worked really hard to be in T1.. and you dismiss them cose' they don't have brawling skill.. not everyone gets to T1 knowing everything.. getting to T1 is being good - at something.. not being good at everything.

If they have no brawling skill then how'd they work hard to get into T1? They never learned one of the most basic survival skills in the game and yet climbed into T1 just through sheer number of matches. By the time you get to T1 you *should* know everything. That's the whole point of the top tier. T3 is the point where you're supposed to be "good at something but not everything", the point of average.

Vellron2005, on 20 February 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

Calling someone "fake T1" is just unnecessarily toxic..

Though its rather true and highlights a big issue in the matchmaker.

[Mystere]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 21 February 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

That's the whole point of the top tier.

From what I understand, the whole point of the tier system is to segregate new players from experienced ones and not as a measure of skill. If that is indeed the case, then T1 does not really mean much, hence the XP bar comments.

In any case, I think there should just be 2 groupings: T1-T3 and T4-T5. That's a shark tank and a kiddie pool.

[UnofficialOperator]

LordNothing, on 21 February 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

one has to ask. where were you? i assume you were dead and spectating. apparently you need to learn to torso twist.

3 kills and over 600 damage in a 20 ton mech which I bought 3 days ago and failing to carry with a 230 ping fighting a majority of low ping players. 30x my weight in damage... Is that good enough for you?

PS: btw around 70% of these players have unit tags LOL... just smh... Also look at the other 2 founders that can't play, which brings home the point that they are there simply because of their account age.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 21 February 2018 - 06:09 PM.

[kailii]

Another major fault of the Tier system:
Gains are averaged over the total number of games played.

I got 2 accounts, stopped playing both just after Clans came out, activated both a few weeks ago, there was no Tier then.
Main account, around 1000 old battles, took about 300 more to climb to Tier 4, 70% complete.
Alt. account, around 30 old battles, took me 3 battles to climb to Tier 4, 50% complete.

Main account is seal clubbing (potato mashing) Tier 4 games. At least half of the games i rank #1 score wise, but it's boring like hell. Wished i had better opponents. Can't do anything about it.

Tier system is broken already. Trash it, and make MM consider the last 10 or 30 games of any player (only for QP).
CW is beyond help in MHO. Solaris looks like pure poison to player base, as potato got nobody to blame for loss.

[FinnMcKool]

I think 1 reason so me players are so bad (New players)

The default key and mouse controls are just horrible ,also

video settings , add that on top of the fact it is a difficult game

to master , takes time to get use driving the mech let alone

fighting in it, and then there are things like arm lock ect ect ect....

in game tutorials may help ,man even the tool tips go by so

fast you cant read them let alone think about what its saying.

i often start reading one and find im reading the next one

on the 2nd line... makes no sense.

people are so smart that it makes them dumb.

Edited by FinnMcKool, 21 February 2018 - 05:24 PM.

[OmniFail]

Down with match maker.....
Down with the tier system.....

Free your mind and your mech will follow.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Mystere, on 21 February 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

From what I understand, the whole point of the tier system is to segregate new players from experienced ones and not as a measure of skill. If that is indeed the case, then T1 does not really mean much, hence the XP bar comments.

In any case, I think there should just be 2 groupings: T1-T3 and T4-T5. That's a shark tank and a kiddie pool.

Mentioned that in my post. PGI's matchmaker isn't what any of us have asked for with actual balanced matches or anything like that, its just built to keep t4-5 new players from experienced players, good or bad. They've stated as much in their podcasts. Should be more people asking for matchmaker fixes rather than balance fixes if they want to improve game quality.

[Yosharian]

34 percentile player in Tier 1? Really?

I am surprised by that, if it is true.

[JC Daxion]

UnofficialOperator, on 21 February 2018 - 04:21 PM, said:

3 kills and over 600 damage in a 20 ton mech which I bought 3 days ago and failing to carry with a 230 ping fighting a majority of low ping players. 30x my weight in damage... Is that good enough for you?

PS: btw around 70% of these players have unit tags LOL... just smh... Also look at the other 2 founders that can't play, which brings home the point that they are there simply because of their account age.

PR1 is one of the top lights in the game... so a bunch of kills and carrying a match in that mech is not a feat if you know how to play. Sure it's a good match, but it certainly is not epic for that mech. Even a clan scrub like me has pulled similar matches in that mech. I'm not even half way done leveling mine and i've had a bunch of 650+ matches and pulled out a bunch of solo kills and 2v1's and come out the victor and i am a much better IS pilot than clanner. It is a great mech.

Now if you did that in a spider i would bow to your greatness...


a +200-250 ping on your side... and people that dip under 40 FPS can be extremely hard to hit because of lag-shield and the hit-rewind not triggering as fast mechs blink on by..

People with not so hot comps, can have huge trouble tracking locusts and piranha in this game as your frames dip and yes it gets even worse when the other guy has high ping, because the rewind isn't working because your frames are dipping, so the mech is not actually there so the hit-rewind doesn't work. It only works when you actually are hitting the right place for the rewind to trigger. It's not that they have bad aim and the light pilot is awesome.. it's peoples hardware letting them down and the mech not being where you think it is. It's why a lot of players will use streaks, ATM's or even LRM's and actually need those lock on mechanics.

the comp i am on is even a newer comp than when i first started playing and my frames have increased around 20 from what i started on.. My aim improved big time i could not believe the difference. This time next year when my new comp is bought/built i have no doubt my aim will increase again and i can't frigging wait.

It's half the reason why so many locust/PIR pilots can run through packs and not get hit while thinking people have awful aim.. it's often they just don't have great comps.

Edited by JC Daxion, 21 February 2018 - 07:19 PM.

[Cnaiur]

It doesn't matter what tier Mr. 34% is in. What matters is he's showing up in matches with top players.

[JC Daxion]

Cnaiur, on 21 February 2018 - 07:08 PM, said:

It doesn't matter what tier Mr. 34% is in. What matters is he's showing up in matches with top players.

But it does.. If he is in T3... and the gates are opening because of low pop times that is a thing that you need to deal with. The player pop is to low in this game at certain times and people can end up in those matches..

again.. if top players want to play with top players verse top players they really need to play in groups, or one of the many leagues that run in this game. There are plenty out there.

[Brain Cancer]

JC Daxion, on 21 February 2018 - 07:01 PM, said:

People with not so hot comps, can have huge trouble tracking locusts and piranha in this game as your frames dip and yes it gets even worse when the other guy has high ping, because the rewind isn't working because your frames are dipping, so the mech is not actually there so the hit-rewind doesn't work. It only works when you actually are hitting the right place for the rewind to trigger. It's not that they have bad aim and the light pilot is awesome.. it's peoples hardware letting them down and the mech not being where you think it is. It's why a lot of players will use streaks, ATM's or even LRM's and actually need those lock on mechanics.

Consider that thanks to MWO coding, I get a whopping high-30's framerate. On lowest settings.

And yes, that can lead to some amaaaaaazing feats of laser whiff.

[UnofficialOperator]

JC Daxion, on 21 February 2018 - 07:01 PM, said:

PR1 is one of the top lights in the game... so a bunch of kills and carrying a match in that mech is not a feat if you know how to play. Sure it's a good match, but it certainly is not epic for that mech. Even a clan scrub like me has pulled similar matches in that mech. I'm not even half way done leveling mine and i've had a bunch of 650+ matches and pulled out a bunch of solo kills and 2v1's and come out the victor and i am a much better IS pilot than clanner. It is a great mech.

Lol that's not the point. Please read my reply in the context of the previous posters remark. Not bragging. But how about a 700 MS 984 damage match? Would that appease you? Again unsure what Charlie lance is doing...

JC Daxion, on 21 February 2018 - 07:01 PM, said:

a +200-250 ping on your side... and people that dip under 40 FPS can be extremely hard to hit because of lag-shield and the hit-rewind not triggering as fast mechs blink on by.. *snip*

Nope. Low ping helps a lot in this game for people close to the servers. There is no lag compensation unlike other FPS like COD (which comes with its own set of problems). Lag shield only happens when you reach like 400 ping and above I believe and I've only ever seen a few players do that.

A 10 to 20 ping player sees a 250 ping player about 0.5s in advance and the hit reg is fine (I have 6 to 12 ping on Oceanic sometimes). That is 1 of the reasons why some people peek around corner and feel that they insta died when in fact they were seen way in advance. I think not many people know this about low ping players. Anyway I very seldom play Oceanic anymore because it feels unfair. With a very low ping in Oceanic, it feels like being Neo in the Matrix and I literally get bullet time. I have no issues fighting lights which come in very high pings on Oceanic. Where I shoot, I get. Not so for other servers. So I'm pretty sure your theory is wrong about frames or whatnot. (Oh and I get a min of 60 to 90 ish fps but unfortunately its on a 60 hz monitor

Anyway about the ping issues... prepare to see a lot of salt in Solaris where the very low ping players will have first hit advantage.

Anyway the point is this... Why would a T1 match or players allow a 20 ton mech to score over 900 damage??? If everyone is on par, then this type of results won't occur and less cries of nerf this or nerf that would occur. I would much rather see an even gameplay with 1.0 WLR and KDR all around rather than these lopsided matches.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 21 February 2018 - 07:55 PM.

[Dogstar]

UnofficialOperator, on 21 February 2018 - 04:21 PM, said:

3 kills and over 600 damage in a 20 ton mech which I bought 3 days ago and failing to carry with a 230 ping fighting a majority of low ping players. 30x my weight in damage... Is that good enough for you?

PS: btw around 70% of these players have unit tags LOL... just smh... Also look at the other 2 founders that can't play, which brings home the point that they are there simply because of their account age.

Just noticed - there's a Vindicator in Bravo Lance that did 784 damage, now either that's a seriously skilled player or there was something screwy about that match and you were effectively gifted your damage by sealclubbing

In short damage numbers from a single match aren't really significant - show us a bunch of videos demonstrating your superior understanding of the game before your opinion counts for anything other than posturing

[Brain Cancer]

UnofficialOperator, on 21 February 2018 - 07:43 PM, said:

Anyway the point is this... Why would a T1 match or players allow a 20 ton mech to score over 900 damage??? If everyone is on par, then this type of results won't occur and less cries of nerf this or nerf that would occur. I would much rather see an even gameplay with 1.0 WLR and KDR all around rather than these lopsided matches.

Given that supposedly, all weight classes are valid for being "best"....why not?

Besides, assaults can and have gotten 2000+ damage matches in the right (wrong) hands. Less than half that is surely doable by a light that bides it's time and strikes when the target is weak and easily side-torso'd/ammo exploded for bonus damage. Even with skilled opponents.