73 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

---> POLL <---


Go vote. I'm just ... kinda curious what's gonna show up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[FupDup]

I think that on average it's okay. Some specific mechs die too quickly and some specific builds kill too quickly, but across the board it's in a decent spot. Some guns kill too slowly, like the IS SL.

Just need to pull in the outliers from the top and bottom ends and we're golden.

[Nightbird]

TTK will feel low for someone who makes the mistake of getting shot by multiple mechs without twisting. TTK will feel high for someone who sprays their damage everywhere without trying to focus down components. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Escef]

Nightbird, on 22 February 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

TTK will feel low for someone who makes the mistake of getting shot by multiple mechs without twisting. TTK will feel high for someone who sprays their damage everywhere without trying to focus down components. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Some mechs survive longer than you'd think even when getting gangbeat. Especially fast ones with lanky limbs (Spider, Assassin).

[ocular tb]

I voted for "just right" although I think there is room for some adjustments here and there.

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 22 February 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

I think that on average it's okay. Some specific mechs die too quickly and some specific builds kill too quickly, but across the board it's in a decent spot. Some guns kill too slowly, like the IS SL.

Just need to pull in the outliers from the top and bottom ends and we're golden.

I kind of agree, it's fine across the board.

But rather I'd not have outliers and have a pretty much small range of TTK, than have extremes where something like LRMs are considered bad because of it, and then Vomits are considered good because of it. I agree, certain builds are really just reprehensible and bad, they aren't supposed to be viable in the first place. But when there's only a handful of style being used, and those are used far more often in higher-play, i think there's a problem.

I like to think of it as what are the OPTIMAL builds, and how they would par with one another such as in comp where many people just went with the most boring point-click builds. That is why i could say "Yes, TTK is short", because realistically, people can just "abuse/exploit" the extremes, and have games that cater to short TTKs due to meta-builds are the only sensible builds to do.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 22 February 2018 - 07:56 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Nightbird, on 22 February 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

TTK will feel low for someone who makes the mistake of getting shot by multiple mechs without twisting. TTK will feel high for someone who sprays their damage everywhere without trying to focus down components. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Exactly this. TTK in MWO as a FPS is already quite high.

Trying to increase it further, or for that matter decreasing, will do absolutely nothing to satisfy the people demanding an increase.


Even if you doubled the armour/structure of every mech right now it would increase the TTK on paper, yes. However the delta between good/bad players remains and the same stuff will still happen. Bad players will get minced up and good players having twice the armour can afford to be even more aggressive.

This is why TTK and all the talk around it, IMO, is utterly irrelevant. The issue with TTK is coming from the PGI power creep
- Increased hardpoints
- High mount points
- Promoting high alpha boating by Skill Tree
- Desync meant bigger mechs resemble going to a pick-a-part for a car. You can literally disassemble big mechs component at a time with ease cause they cannot twist. Hell the firestarter having the same mobilty as a Dragon? How is that even possible???

Address the above, you fix TTK. Constant weapon obliteration is not the answer.

[Jonathan8883]

Reading one of the 3025 books, TTK was usually < 10 seconds when combat started. A Victor with an AC 20 could kill a Panther with a single shot, as could a Marauder with 2 PPCs. Similarly, a PPC could knock out a weapon system or arm in a hit.

MWO has a much higher TTK than BT, and is the better for it.

[El Bandito]

IS XL pops too quickly. Other than that...

[slide]

Your asking the wrong question. As the answer will depend on whether you view this game as a FPS or a BT simulation.

As an FPS it is either ok or too long.

As a BT simulation it is way to short (even accounting for focus fire).

As a simulation the armor/damage model is completely wrong. Which is why PPFLD weapons, favorable hit boxes and hard point configurations which allow for the creation of super weapons are so important.

The question you should ask is do we want an FPS that "looks" like BT or a game that "feels" like BT. I suspect the answers are mutually exclusive, which is why the forums can never reach a consensus.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 22 February 2018 - 08:21 PM, said:

IS XL pops too quickly. Other than that...

Add in the pin-point weapons, the meta builds such as laser vomits, gauss-vomits, gauss PPC, over-quirking are their saving grace.

Build-wise, TTK is fine when accounting most sensible builds cause the extreme lows are balanced by extreme highs. Then again on the higher-play environment where the extreme-lows are encountered, TTK is pretty low.

[sycocys]

justcallme A S H, on 22 February 2018 - 07:51 PM, said:

Trying to increase it further, or for that matter decreasing, will do absolutely nothing to satisfy the people demanding an increase.

I'd be happy with longer TTK, but not in the way PGI will end up going about getting there. As you say there are core issues that need to be corrected that are outside the scope of simply just weapons adjustments that need to be fixed and accounted for. A lot of problems that were either never addressed or like hardpoint inflation/placement were compounded upon release after release.

[Wil McCullough]

Increasing ttk will nerf a lot of ammo based weapons unless the ammo numbers are bulked up accordingly.

The bigger problem though, is that many "increase ttk" advocates will hate increased ttk when implemented. Increased ttk means less lucky breaks. You can't get lucky and cockpit a good player in one shot. The gulf between good and bad players will widen even more, and so will the number of stomps.

Tired of getting 5-12ed every game? With increased ttk it'll be 0-12 every time. Matches will be decided within the first minute of engagement, but you'd still be forced to play it out. You know that last hiding erll raven in skirmish? Now not.only do you have to chase him all across the map, he takes longer to kill.

Ttk is always too low when its your mech and always too high when it's the enemy.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Already too long for isolated fights.

People seems to think increasing it will somehow make them survive 1 vs many scenarios longer but that's not gonna happen.

[Bud Crue]

Feels fine to me but for I think they should give all mechs who's rear torso hit boxes are visible from the front or side a +5 armor on those rear hit boxes. One shotting even with reasonable armor should be less of a thing. But other than that small change I think its fine.

[Escef]

slide, on 22 February 2018 - 09:20 PM, said:

As a BT simulation it is way to short (even accounting for focus fire).

Keep in mind that each round in TT is supposed to be approximately 10 seconds. I've seen mechs, especially lights and mediums, dropped in one round. I've seen mechs almost completely removed from combat by a lucky through-armor crit to the engine. And let's not forget the infamous RNGesus 20+ hex range Gauss headshot against an assault mech that just about all of us have been on the receiving end at some time or another.

Very few 12 v 12 engagements in TT last 18+ rounds. I think your opinion is being colored by how much real-world time it takes to resolve those 10 second rounds.

Edited by Escef, 23 February 2018 - 04:37 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

It seems fine. If I get out of position (or unlucky) and get focused by 3+ 'mechs, I'm dead. If I can manage my engagements, I can get down to ~40% with some regularity.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

and not forget ...here no Dice look ...the BT Pilots fires in 12m Tall Machines of fighting ranges like Soldiers in the Amercan Cicil War with 1,80m Tall targets..only bad Pilots with bad Gamepad can not hit a screenfilled Target ...of the other Side we seeing in each match Pilots thats running with Highest Zoom in the Close combat from mechnose to Mechnose or crouching the enemy in the cockpit to to fired

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 23 February 2018 - 10:44 AM.

[Gristle Missile]

A lot of times an assault can drop too fast and they are sitting ducks quite often
and IS XL engines are suicide boxes.

Other than that I think it's pretty ok

Edited by Gristle Missile, 25 February 2018 - 01:14 PM.

[Stinger554]

Voted for just right as most of the time it's fine outside of some outliers *cough* Clan Gauss/laser vomit *cough*. The TTK is in a decent spot for most mechs. I agree with FupDup in this regard.