718 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

kuma8877, on 16 March 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

Sometimes yes, if my opponents give me the opportunity. Though usually you will find me actively at the front of a push (in my lights) doing my best to force multiply with rando's, and trying to fill the holes in the lines that can cause the teams I find myself on to collapse. I personally play for the W and do what I can to secure them.

Well I'm saying if lets say my 12 man was 2(my friend and I),4,4,2 and EMP rolled in with 12

Whats harder?

Brain Cancer, on 16 March 2018 - 11:10 PM, said:

The number of times I've seen a KONG/GONK drop carry a 12-man versus me carrying a 12-man QP group is significantly in favor of the unit drops. Teamwork is a boon to your W/L ratio, even if you run into the hellscape that's a world champion team dropping across the map from you.

But heck, you haven't even played since they beat literally everyone last year. Heck, have you even played any significant amount since the Civil War update?

Nope because the balance in this game is trash case and point this thread.

[Trenchbird]

Brain Cancer, on 16 March 2018 - 11:10 PM, said:

But heck, you haven't even played since they beat literally everyone last year. Heck, have you even played any significant amount since the Civil War update?

He did buy an Annihilator pack.

Doubt he used them much, though.

[kuma8877]

Imperius, on 16 March 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

Well I'm saying if lets say my 12 man was 2(my friend and I),4,4,2 and EMP rolled in with 12

Whats harder?


Nope because the balance in this game is trash case and point this thread.

The counter to that, is to then get off of Discord (or whatever) and try to coordinate at a similar level (against a full team). Group composition/selection is another matter. I have to imagine it feels about the same as getting stomped by rando's who decided to communicate, when your stuck on a team that chooses not to.

[Brain Cancer]

Imperius, on 16 March 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

Well I'm saying if lets say my 12 man was 2(my friend and I),4,4,2 and EMP rolled in with 12

Whats harder?

Proton in QP solo when you have 11 potatoes for "team" members.

Quote

Nope because the balance in this game is trash case and point this thread.

Without experience, your theorycrafting is the equivalent of a hipster reviewing a restaurant he hasn't been to, simply because the menu didn't look good. Heaven help us if he ATE there, he already knows he doesn't like the cooking.

[Imperius]

kuma8877, on 16 March 2018 - 11:11 PM, said:

The NPE is different than vets talking higher level gameplay. At some point in the NPE, a player eventually has to learn how to fly, and that involves getting better.

But we know the balance philosophy is save potato.

Soooooooooooo that means 12MG nerf

Catten Hart, on 16 March 2018 - 11:14 PM, said:

He did buy an Annihilator pack.

Doubt he used them much, though.

I have bought all the top mech packs except I think 5 most recent, (I did get a Blood Asp though) in the game, two gold mechs and who knows how much MC payed pretty much 3 mechs

Ilya before clans
Dire Wolf (G)
Deathstrike

Brain Cancer, on 16 March 2018 - 11:16 PM, said:

Proton in QP solo when you have 11 potatoes for "team" members.


Without experience, your theorycrafting is the equivalent of a hipster reviewing a restaurant he hasn't been to, simply because the menu didn't look good. Heaven help us if he ATE there, he already knows he doesn't like the cooking.

So if you saw on the menu they served Spoiled Milk I would need to confirm my opinion by trying spoiled milk and only then it's valid? Huh?

[kuma8877]

Imperius, on 16 March 2018 - 11:16 PM, said:

But we know the balance philosophy is save potato.

Soooooooooooo that means 12MG nerf

But a potato isn't going to be able to produce the numbers needed to show OPness. Just like launch day for the PIR, a bunch of people will buy them and the great culling will begin as players get one shotted out of their mechs and decide that that show ain't for them. Even now, I'm often the only PIR pilot in the games I'm in, so there seems to be some hyperbole about the vast schools of PIR's eating everything.

[Trenchbird]

Imperius, on 16 March 2018 - 11:22 PM, said:

So if you saw on the menu they served Spoiled Milk I would need to confirm my opinion by trying spoiled milk and only then it's valid? Huh?

It's pronounced "Cheese" and the answer is yes.

[Imperius]

Catten Hart, on 16 March 2018 - 11:23 PM, said:

It's pronounced "Cheese" and the answer is yes.

Cheese takes a lot more processing. It's not just 'rotten milk' as some people think. First you need to add some rennet (an enzyme found in calf stomaches, used here to break down the milk) separate the whey, drain the sugar from the milk curd via osmosis and a stable temperature, make sure you don't eat any fermented food before you process it as you could spoil the batch, then press it into a wheel of cheese several times at varying pressures, then age it for months, brush the mold off a few times a week etc.

Cool you learned something today!

So now we know why you think 12MG's are balanced /thread

Edited by Imperius, 16 March 2018 - 11:29 PM.

[Trenchbird]

Imperius, on 16 March 2018 - 11:28 PM, said:

Cheese takes a lot more processing.

I'm from Wisconsin. I grew up around Dairy Farms, took tours of several. I know how the hell Cheese works.

But hey, any way to make yourself seem denser than a Neutron Star, because you somehow missed an obvious joke.

Quote

So now we know why you think 12MG's are balanced /thread

My knowledge of the cheese Industry, as far as you or I know it, has nothing to do with this thread. But hey, anything to keep the attention off of your own piss-poor arguments, yah?

Edited by Catten Hart, 16 March 2018 - 11:32 PM.

[Imperius]

Catten Hart, on 16 March 2018 - 11:30 PM, said:

I'm from Wisconsin. I grew up around Dairy Farms. I know how the hell Cheese works.

But hey, any way to make yourself seem denser than a Neutron Star, because you somehow missed an obvious joke.

To miss a point is to miss a joke.

[Trenchbird]

Imperius, on 16 March 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

To miss a point is to miss a joke.

That's not how that works. You can't just wax pseudo-philosophy and act like it's an actual thing.

[Imperius]

Catten Hart, on 16 March 2018 - 11:40 PM, said:

That's not how that works. You can't just wax pseudo-philosophy and act like it's an actual thing.

Says who?

[Trenchbird]

Imperius, on 16 March 2018 - 11:41 PM, said:

Says who?

Ugh. Just go back under your bridge.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Imperius, on 16 March 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

He doesn’t think it’s a problem yet...

Why would I think "it's a problem"? You quite obvioulsy have neither the proof that I asked you to provide concerning my alleged claims nor could you provide data that shows the "imbaness" or the actual "outlier" status of the PIR-1. For the record; Something doesn't become an "outlier" just because it has something "special". But what's worese there is ...

Imperius, on 16 March 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Outlier - how many mechs can equip 12 machine guns?

.. you're once again intellectually dishontest. Your initial commentary on the "outlier" status was that other players are using that terminology to defend a particular OP-ness of mechs while (supposedly) still being within balance boundaries and made the not so subtle complaint that this kind of argument by said players was incorrect / unfair or just a self-serving lie.

Guess what: You're now trying to use that exact same lie.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 17 March 2018 - 01:45 AM.

[Dogstar]

Everyone please stop replying to Imperius, he's not interested in a discussion or learning anything, he just wants to stomp lights with his assaults regardless of balance or common sense, and the sooner you ignore him the sooner this overlong and pointless thread will go away.

[Imperius]

Der Geisterbaer, on 17 March 2018 - 01:43 AM, said:

Why would I think "it's a problem"? You quite obvioulsy have neither the proof that I asked you to provide concerning my alleged claims nor could you provide data that shows the "imbaness" or the actual "outlier" status of the PIR-1. For the record; Something doesn't become an "outlier" just because it has something "special". But what's worese there is ...



.. you're once again intellectually dishontest. Your initial commentary on the "outlier" status was that other players are using that terminology to defend a particular OP-ness of mechs while (supposedly) still being within balance boundaries and made the not so subtle complaint that this kind of argument by said players was incorrect / unfair or just a self-serving lie.

Guess what: You're now trying to use that exact same lie.

“He” is referring to Chris not you.

From my understanding when I talked to Chris. If other mechs can’t do it too and that something gives that certain loadout a clear advantage over other mechs in its class it’s considered an outlier, and will brought into spec of the other mechs in its class.


7.1.6.

What are outliers in the data?

Definition of outliers An outlier is an observation that lies an abnormal distance from other values in a random sample from a population. In a sense, this definition leaves it up to the analyst (or a consensus process) to decide what will be considered abnormal. Before abnormal observations can be singled out, it is necessary to characterize normal observations.

The analysts would be Chris. As i said before I talked to him for a good while at MechCon. I wasn’t very enthused with that philosophy because it just make everything mediocre and removes uniqueness.

My favorite weight class and chassis suffered because of that philosophy. So I just want to keep things in check. Since your group seems to constantly ask for buffs directly or indirectly (nerfing other classes as a whole)

I used to drop in balance posts here and there and say my opinion and move on. That was a mistake. I want you to understand something completely. If you think your light mech should go toe to toe with an assault and win if pilot skill was =/= I’m completely down.

Remove all uniqueness and weight classes from the game.
All mechs Speed is =
All mechs Armor is =
All mechs mobility is =
All mechs have the same hardpoints and locations
All mechs have same weapons

Oh look it’s balanced and now completely boring

Assaults slow, easy to hit, less forgiving in positioning, more forgiving in engagements.
Lights fast, harder to hit, more forgiving in positioning, less forgiving in engagements.

That is how I see the to polar opposite roles

Dogstar, on 17 March 2018 - 02:15 AM, said:

Everyone please stop replying to Imperius, he's not interested in a discussion or learning anything, he just wants to stomp lights with his assaults regardless of balance or common sense, and the sooner you ignore him the sooner this overlong and pointless thread will go away.

Yes because nerfing 12mgs effects alll lights.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

"He” is referring to Chris not you.

Then congrats! We now have found your next deficit: Bad written communication skills.

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

From my understanding when I talked to Chris.

Well, I can't help myself there but given the level of "understanding" you have shown so far I won't trust your "understanding" of what Chris was talking about either.

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

If other mechs can’t do it too and that something gives that certain loadout a clear advantage over other mechs in its class it’s considered an outlier, and will brought into spec of the other mechs in its class.

So now you're switching to a third souce that used the "outlier" terminology ... and in possibily yet another frame of reference. But in that particular context:
So where's the clear advantage over the other mechs of the same class? Are you going to limit your feeble attempt to a "raw dps and damage potential" or will you actually have a look at what other mechs of the same class can bring to the table? Like more armor - incl. stealth armor in case of IS-ECM-lights -, in many cases jump jets, actual weapon and survival quirks ...

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

What are outliers in the data?

Definition of outliers An outlier is an observation that lies an abnormal distance from other values in a random sample from a population. In a sense, this definition leaves it up to the analyst (or a consensus process) to decide what will be considered abnormal. Before abnormal observations can be singled out, it is necessary to characterize normal observations.

Then by all means: Show those numbers for the PIR-1 ~laugh~

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

The analysts would be Chris.

No, that "analyst" right here is you because right here you're the one doing his "feely-craft" where you describe the PIR-1 as an outlier that has "insane dps" with those "insane 12 mg" that - by your demands - needs to be reigned in.

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

As i said before I talked to him for a good while at MechCon. I wasn’t very enthused with that philosophy because it just make everything mediocre and removes uniqueness.

Which make your line of argument in here even more "confusing" and dishonest, since your demand goes counter what you claim to believe yourself.

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

My favorite weight class and chassis suffered because of that philosophy. So I just want to keep things in check.

So you just wish for others to suffer because you suffered - whether or not that particular suffering was deserved or not - ... What a spiteful and lovely personality you are.

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

Since your group seems to constantly ask for buffs directly or indirectly (nerfing other classes as a whole)

"My group"?

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

I used to drop in balance posts here and there and say my opinion and move on. That was a mistake.

Let's just say that I can't agree with you there. You moving on - on several levels - would certainly not be a mistake.

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

I want you to understand something completely.

The fallacious nature of your arguments, in conjunction with hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty and outright lies are bound to make me understand only one thing: The communication with you can only serve my personal entertainment.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 17 March 2018 - 02:46 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Catten Hart, on 16 March 2018 - 10:13 PM, said:

Good. Then maybe you'll leave too.

No fear i'll leave in april this game doesn't hold a candle to Battletech, so will my wallet.

UnofficialOperator, on 16 March 2018 - 10:18 PM, said:

Was this when you uttered these famous words?

No that was days ago when you were going off at me first.

The screenshot was today and you were not there. I stand by what i wrote to you then and the same applies to you now.

Dogstar, on 17 March 2018 - 02:15 AM, said:

Everyone please stop replying to Imperius, he's not interested in a discussion or learning anything, he just wants to stomp lights with his assaults regardless of balance or common sense, and the sooner you ignore him the sooner this overlong and pointless thread will go away.

You people are so blind, i hope you enjoy your dead game soon.

Edited by Samial, 17 March 2018 - 03:08 AM.

[Krivvan]

Quote

Its killed the fun of piloting a "mighty robot" into battle with 30th Century "futuristic weapons" when you have to fear the 20 ton killing machines with weapons from the 20th century!

One of the points of the game is that a Light mech can counter an Assault. It's not always a case of heavier == inherently better. That's a good thing.

[Sjorpha]

Piranha discussions feels a little like LRM topics to me, in the sense that they really prey on bad enemies, are easy to hard counter and have many situations where they have trouble doing anything useful. They seem to induce the same kind of rage when they kill people.

It's very interesting how being killed in a certain way makes people angry but other ways don't. Laser vomit is much more dominant and powerful in the current metagame, but people really don't seem to get very angry about dying to laser vomit even though everyone dies to it much more often than they die to machine guns or LRMs.

It's natural that "feels bad" strategies lead to a polarized discussion, same thing in for example Magic the Gathering where control decks tend to induce rage despite being rather underpowered in the metagame, they win much less than aggro decks but people get more angry when they lose to them.

The thing is that strategies like these are important for game diversity, it's healthy in the larger metagame picture if LRMs, flamers, crit seekers etc have some relevance. All of those strategies are currently MUCH weaker than simple direct fire boating, but their existence forces some thought and diversity onto the direct fire builds, your laser vomit mech might get jumped by a flamer+mg light and you need to think about what your answer to that situation is. It might feel bad at the time but it's ultimately healthy for the game to keep these tactics relevant.

Machine guns and flamers are probably powerful enough to fill this function as they are, LRMs and LBXs are a little to underpowered to do any metagame work right now and could both use a buff. Again, it's fine to keep them a little underpowered, you don't want control strategies at the top of your metagame, but they should all be decent tier 2 strategies, like machine guns are now.

As for the Piranha - 1 itself, I haven't really seen good data on it yet. It seems dominant in some duel situations, I don't see it dominating in solo queue, group or FP so there is no indication if it being OP in team based modes so far. I guess there is still a lack of comp level data on it, and it will be interesting to see how Piranhas position themselves in MRBC this year. It clearly has that high risk - high reward character where you can be killed fast or rack up incredible damage if ignored.

One thing I've noted is that it's not a very good carry mech. It doesn't turn around losing matches or win on it's own, it does best if the fight is already going well for your team so it can support the bigger mechs. In some sense it's a "win-more" mech, if you're the last survivor against some fresh enemies it's usually much better to be in a Locust or Wolfhound with ermeds than in a Piranha.

Jury still out to some degree IMO.